Notices

Series II ESC (Supercharger)

Old 05-09-2016, 04:01 PM
  #126  
Registered
iTrader: (46)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,739
Liked 335 Times in 270 Posts
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Old 05-10-2016, 02:34 PM
  #127  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central, IL
Posts: 376
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by EarlQHan View Post
Audi SQ7. But a lot of OEMs have tested them. The benefit is power on demand, with little-to-no parasitic loss and no backpressure, allowing for downsized/downsped engines. The downside is the cost and associated complexity
Mazda has too, they caught fire! Just about every OEM has attempted a prototype, but the amount of prototype units like mine is zero. The closest is a type of alternator that provides enough boost to spool the inducer of a turbo, not provide full boost. They run for small amounts of seconds and only IF they have the power to spare. (Which usually they don't) (This is also just a public concept, not a working prototype, not even a one-off yet)

This also would be 437amps at 48V. The main problem being that ESCs are meant for Brushless Motors which cannot provide the torque required to a Roots supercharger, but could possibly work on a Turbo-Inducer type, but with negligible amounts of boost at the very high duty cycle. The ford 1L engine would be the only perfect fit for that type of ESC tech.

A brushed motor wont last as long in terms of time before maintenance, but will crush a brushless motor in torque. AC servos are am amazing technology dont get me wrong, but for this type of application the typical "Audio Amp" type ESC would not even make the motor budge. Even if you took it down to a 1/3 of the motor. (7KW)

The project goes along as I have the money for it, and since it hasn't been cheap, research has been continuous with not being able to buy the available products. I am constantly keeping on track of OEMs and their prototypes trying to put this into production. It is a massive liability. If you have some new knowledge, post the link, I would always like to see something or how an OEM is trying something.

It would be even more information overload if I posted my results for everything I researched, so I think people would just tune out if they already haven't lol.


As for the OEMs the biggest problem is the energy storage and the safety that encompasses. The give you an idea, 3 years ago there was almost zero supercap ICs that did anything resembling balancing and safety protection. Now I know of at least 10, the majority coming from Texas Instruments and Advanced Linear Devices. I have both circuits built and the ALD one is far easier to use and implement, but it is still two 6 dollar chips per 6 super-capacitors. (Just the ICs) Supercaps also dont **** around when they are shorted. With the spark from 1 short it could be large enough to ignite the fuel if shorted against the block (negative). So untill more devices and ICs are available and frontier-ed I doubt many of them will use supercaps, leaving Lithium Batteries. Hoverboard anyone????? Lead acid are just too heavy to address the power gains you would get as a temporary storage mechanism.

The best case scenario for my setup is a 70 Volt system, Fed by a 15S Lipo being 100C compatible with a extremely smart charger and balance circuit for both the supercaps and the lithium batteries, all charged from a completely isolated DC to DC power supply with charging, collecting, braking, and running modes on the setup. Also a custom built multiple frequency, multiple duty cycle, and multiple gated opto-isolated controller based off the Particle Photon or Particle Electron. (both of which I am building this for and testing with right now)

The largest bottle neck for that is getting 84 caps, and 30 batteries with a charger, protection board, and building a motordrive. (which will require a custom designed PCB, and 3D printed parts)(Also which I am doing right now).

Monetarily to shave a month off that it would be around 10,000 to 25,000 to have the work done and the board ready in a box to me. That doesn't mean it will cost that for me, since my work on the project is free, but slow, focused, and careful.
badinfluence is offline  
Old 10-07-2016, 05:41 PM
  #128  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central, IL
Posts: 376
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So Houston finally came back to bite me in the ***.....again. I got exposed to Stachybotrys Chartum in 2014, and it has made my life harder each year. Heathcare is rebounding, and this is not a political debate about ObamaCare, so not here. Insurance companies are getting ballsy again after they got their dick slapped a few times, and expect the storm to get worse. Oh? Can't work, here is more medical bills. In the words of Henry Hill "**** you pay me." Oh your bleeding from your mouth and throat.....sucks bro keep on trying to find a job. Oh disability? Sorry your far to deserving of that, but hey, if you make 5 more appointments at 200 bucks a pop, we can talk. Oh, your sleep 2 days at a time because you physically are exhausted and have no idea 2 days went by.....cool.....story......bro........lololorlroro rorolfoflfoflfoflfo.............money,bmw,drivesli keamoron!

No I don't hate doctors. I hate how patients are asked 5000 questions, then answers are ignored and someone arbitrary blames another doctor and randomly picks a solution, even if it is documented that you are fatally allergic to it.

HASHTAG FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKK KKKKKKKKKK

Anyway, I have severe allergies and asthma and I have been living in a prison, or bed as its translated. The worst torture for an engineer is to be powerless to engineer. Wait....there is something worse.......when you don't have your unicorn car because of more bullshit...... I am not getting into details, but lets just say something happened that should have been covered by insurance and they are doing worse than denying, they are playing hide and seek.

I have been getting brief breaks from pain, suffocation attacks, and being immobilized and made some progress that despite this being the worst time in my life, its actually pretty ******* promising. BUT you know I will never get to finish a damn thing so I get thrown a bone to have it taken away.

I hope someone reads this thread and it at least gives them an idea or damn near some kind of thought to help them.

Here is what I found, and how it is helpful.......

Supercapacitor.......Coils are immaculate with a 16.2volt 58Farad Supercap Module in the Front and proper RX8 sized battery in the rear. Leakage without battery will start the car for 2 seconds after sitting 8 hours. (AKE within 10 ft, so that is the drain)

Solar Panels: 2-5 Solar Panels, specifically the 6.2,6.5,6.9, or 7.2 Watt Discontinued Flexible Stainless Steel solar panels in the windshield offsets the drain of the supercap, and as a bonus, as enough bang to keep the supercap above the minimal 5 sec start requirement. In direct sunlight, it takes about 5 minutes to regain enough ummmph to try for another start, so even if you die, you can still try again. It is NOT possible to do this with the panels in the windshield like I hoped. The glass is concave/conveyed with a distorted middle layer.

I have tried as many as 8 solar panels, and more is not more and more is not less. It is a matter of the right tool for the right job. Each panel I have is 7 watts and a max voltage of 2.0 volts each. NOW, I have never had one hit more than 1.5 under load. That information is hard to find on these panels since they were a short "AAA" run-best-of-the-best. However, the 6 watt panels are just the same, so it may even be a expensive fluke to go for the 7Ws for a few panels. I bought 100 of them, so 600W vs 700W.

So here is the trick, a Synchronous Boost-Buck Converter with a current limiter. Here is the math done to save you some time.
1 Panel 7 Watts / 1.5 Volts = ~2-5amps. With 2 Panels you have just enough to charge an iPhone or iPad at 2.1amps. Maybe just under (14W). With 4 panels you are starting to get the ability to use them as a sunshade despite the loss in the glass.
You will need 25 watts to offset the AKE/drain of the car. That’s about 4 or 5 panels with the loss in the glass. (I put mine right on the glass and put a flexible section so minimal losses. With 4 panels I was able to put them in serious and with a Buck-Boost converter, boost the voltage to 16V (which it will never achieve because the current is limited), with a 16V 1000uF cap. It hung around 14.2v on the best Texas day. You will also loose a little to the capacitor balancing tech if you have a module. (Out-of-balance caps go BOOM!) I also had it run a CoolerMaster 120mm 50CFM fan to keep the car from getting stuffy. So the Panels reflect the heat, and the PC fan circulates the air around pretty well.

You get a slow/trickle battery charger while you’re at your job, Seat to *** burn protection, a sunshade to protect your dash from cracking or airbags from suddenly going off, and a story if you so choose when someone asks you what the **** you’re doing. You can also charge your iPhone if you just want to do that instead.

Here is how you make it.....

---Panels 1 & 2 solder together


---Panels 3 & 4 solder together


---Put a connector and silicon rubber wire (RC hobby stuff/cheap) between the two and make "banks" of the panels (Buy 10 panels and make 5 banks, and use 2) Put 1 bank on the far drivers side and 1 on the far passenger side avoiding the middle of the glass.


---Put that connector on a 10 volt 1000uF Capacitor available in the assorted capacitor set at Radioshack or Amazon special. Forget the diode, you don't need it, the switching converter will have one, it would just drop the voltage more and the converter would shut off sooner


---Add a 470 ohm 1/8 watt resistor and blue/purple/yellow led so you know your getting sun and how much based on the brightness. The goal is to almost choke the LED so you have a range of how bright it is to know your getting enough sun and aren't running out of stored energy.


---Next add a Buck-Boost converter with either a fixed current limit or an adjustable current limit option.


You will need to limit the current so you don't have so much voltage drop that the converter just cycles or does nothing. Limit your current to less than 1amp at 14.6 volts (15 for the 16.2v cap, (2.4v/per cap 15vmax or 2.5v/percap 16.2vmax cap) Do not exceed 15v at any time regardless of the supercap's max voltage. You do not want to risk popping the PCM's internal voltage regulator or on a series II, anything Canbus since they all have regulators and logic ICs that are NOT fault tolerant in case one goes down. 15v is the max I have seen a series II alternator hit, with 14.5v being what my car likes to sit at with a group 35 battery, before I added the cap. (13.5v without alternator) Mazdas run higher voltages, and you should target that since I = V * A or Current = Volts * Amps. Volts go down, amps go up, resistance goes up, ignition coils get hot and corona and you’re out 1000 bucks every 10-25k miles. Current stays the same not factoring resistance.


---Now put a 16V 1000uf, 16v 100uf, 50v 0.1uf non-polarized, and 50v 0.01uf non polarized, on the exit of the converter. This will act as a stabilizer and filter if you have a more Chinese-than-not converter. (cheap is cheap, and sometimes it’s worth it to add a 20 cent part to save 20 bucks….)

---Next add some kind of fuse, if your converter does not already have one. I suggest 5amps or 10amps. My suggested buck-boost has one, so already done.

---Now you will need a 12v socket/cigarette lighter socket splitter. The best one for this project is 3.99 at autozone and you are going to get a free socket out of it.


---Cut one of the two female sockets off and use it for another project. Cut and solder the wires to your converter in some form.


---Now you have a pass-thru, out, in, and combo setup so this will work in the car, outside the car, on the beach, and with other stuff using that socket. (for the best example, 12v to 5v phone chargers. (They usually only need 6-8v to work, and most work all the way to 18/20/24/28 volts depending.)


---Now you can pick what socket to add your contraption to, but remember you are NOT trying to power the things that are normally off when the car is, so I suggest the socket in the middle cubby, not the convenient one by the shifter. I am not sure on the generation 1 or other cars if it will try and power up the radio or **** your body control module off. Not worth the risk to these parts since they are Smart Junction Boxes on the MazdaSpeed 3 and are ******* 1200 dollars for some mosfets…..


---You can also use the fusepanel by your left foot that is fed from the 15A room fuse since is usually has a few spare and unused places on it. Take your free female socket and use one of the vacant places and put a 5amp fuse. Also might be a good idea to add 2.5/5.0 amps to the room fuse so you don’t blow it by accident. I doubt you will be pushing 5 amps even, but electrical troubleshooting is annoying to myself, and I am a pain in my own ***…. I can’t imagine how pissed off people who hate electrical stuff get.


---I recommend the fuse panel option, even if you can’t fabricate a fuse location there, get some Posi-Tap vampire taps and use the wires that go to the middle cubby lighter. They work differently than the el-cheapo, and they are commonly found in Devil’s Own Methanol Injection kits. They have 2 parts that screw on, 1 that screws a very small needle point onto a wire, and another part on the top where you put your stripped wire. They do not slip or pop loose so they are worth the money, and when you are done, all that you see is a very very small hole that no dealer will even see…… #SneakyScrewThoseCheapAssFuckersWhoDenyClaimsForNo FuckingReasonDickAssBitchSlutCockPussyBitchTitsBar brastrizand!


---By this point your pretty much done. You can add that optional PC fan by soldering it to the output of the converter if you like, and make a simple paperplate and hotglue stand or just Velcro.

Here is the Parts list and links for less common parts
1x 12v Ligher Socket Splitter with 1 Male and 2 Female Ports-Autozone $3.99

1x Synchronous Buck-Boost Converter with Adjustable Voltage and Adjustable current limit. 60 Watts Max, 0-20volts out, 4-28 volts in, 5amps with fuse.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
$15 bucks (don’t pay more, wait for it to go on sale)

1x 470 or 560 ohm Resistor (found in just about anything electronic)
1x LED (Again usually found in common, and usually right next to that resistor you found)


1x 10 Volt 1000 microfarad electrolytic cap (the kind you are thinking of, nothing special here)(Also can be 16v, or even 24v, but you will lose some energy and may need 2 or even 3 to do the job)
1x 16 Volt 1000uF Electrolytic Cap (the converter has caps too, but this is just to make a cushion for when it isn’t hooked up to a car)
1x 16 Volt 100uF Electrolytic Cap
1x 0.1uF Ceramic Cap (the orange mini guys)
1x 0.01uF Ceramic Cap
https://www.amazon.com/E-Projects-EP...5%3A2470955011
Usually Salvageable for the price of free…..


10x Flexible Stainless Steel Solar Panels 5W-7W varying. (Caution NOT coated, waterproof or short proof, recommend you not put these on metal, dash is ok, and they are ok to fold up if there is no light hitting them) They are more than likely safe if you get water on them once or short them on accident, but don’t take risks if you are unsure, if you ignore my use a fuse bit and short them, your shorting your car battery to ground.) Dual top tabs are Positive and the entire bottom is negative. To put in Series solder top tabs to next solar panel bottom, and solder red wire to tab of panel 2 and black wire to back of panel 1. (Series circuit)
uni-solar l-strip | eBay
Don’t let them **** you into paying more than $2/panel. I got 100 of the AAA superluckypremium 7.2 watt panels for 200 bucks with shipping a few months back. That is getting more rare since the company stopped making these, but they take up almost no space since a box of a 100 is the size of a textbook, so they are out there in the supply chains still, and will be for at least a few years. Go in on a few with a friend and challenge me to make it cheaper (but keep it safe)


3-5x RC Connectors depending on how you do this part. You want all 4 panels in series, so if it gets complicated, screw the connector and just add 5ft of wire from bank 1 to bank 2, and 10 feet of black wire to go to the rest of it. (5+5=10 Red positive/10ft black since one of the two banks has to go all the way)


2x 12-15ft 18AWG/20AWG Silicon Rubber Wire. This is less common than you this and it DOES make a huge difference. SiliconRubber wire can be set on fire and still work while it smolders. It also has a tendency to be way underrated. (Most wire is 30Cel, 85Cel, or 105 Cel temp, Most silicon rubber is 300 if not 600 cel, better temp rating = more current, less resistance, more flexibility, and more capacity that is above standard.) Caution: Cats ******* LOVE to chew silicon and silicon rubber wire. I don’t get it, my Weller Soldering Iron cord, my Meter Leads, this project, but never any other wire or cord/rope/string/neckless. Just a heads up. Not sure about dogs, or cousin Skewer/Aunt Martha.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cost of everything (scaled from extra parts) $10-25

Last edited by badinfluence; 10-07-2016 at 05:44 PM.
badinfluence is offline  
Old 10-07-2016, 05:43 PM
  #129  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central, IL
Posts: 376
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you understand the engineering behind this, you can make it for less than $10 bucks with recycled RC cars and the flexible solar panels…. (Not sure where you can salvage them, but everything else is common and easy to recycle from something else) Example, I made my 14W iPhone Charger for $8 with a full 2.1amp charge with no batteries required. The resistors are the most annoying part, but it was easy.

I challenge engineers to improve this idea and make it a community thing! (Warn me first and I will make a dedicated channel and a video/place on my site if you don’t mind. Don’t worry, I have too much bad luck to steal your idea, plus I am busy dying slowly and painfully for leasing the wrong apartment.) I would be happy to see someone read this, and make it themselves if it helps them. That is enough for me, but realistically doesn’t pay the medical bills. Just wait till its Robert DeNiro asking me to pay him……)

Wiring Diagram coming soon, and YouTube Video with instructions and use coming soon. (If I can breathe and be heathy for a few hours)
http://flaredelectronics.com

I would recommend this even if you have a battery and no super cap or zero ***** about supercaps. Most people have a USB auto-charger and end up buying a useless Chinese external usb battery. This is cheaper and serves about 4 purposes without using Lead, Lithium, Nickel, Bullshit, or magichealthhazard number 5. Lithium is dangerous if in the hands of lowest bidders, but much safer than the news makes it seem. It just happens to be stable in the middle of the battery charge and unstable at to low/normal and overcharge/full charge. (Minimal/Danger at 3.70v, Safe/Zero Danger at 3.85volts, Max/Danger at 4.3/4.2/4.18v per cell)

Why waste resources or if you could give a **** less about that, your money on dangerous crap that most of the time doesn’t even work right…. At its best it is unnecessary if you can do something like this tutorial and your wife/husband/partner/car will thank you for not cluttering up cubbies with external batteries you forget to charge.




So……. the……legal……. bit
#1: I have no connection to your nerves, limbs, brain cells, personality, sense or danger, common sense, or automagically correct. Do not do something you are not comfortable with.
#2: If you see something you think is unsafe…..call bullshit and point it out rather than doing it and crying about it. The “cloud” is made of bullshit. No seriously “cloud” is a marketing term for the “internet” to confuse you. I would rather argue about something I know to be safe rather than hear about you somehow blowing your ***** off with solar panels. Although, if you do somehow do that, do explain to the internet how.
#3: Thanks for reading; may fortune favor the foolish or the fucked over middle and lower class. Long live the rotary!
badinfluence is offline  
Old 10-07-2016, 06:05 PM
  #130  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central, IL
Posts: 376
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
An update for the ESC

I am using BSMXXXGB120 IGBT Half Bridges for motor control and auto-boost-buck-charge-capacitor for the motor drive.

I need to find the right boost converter controller/IC for the choke/induct-or I have since I am still laid off and sick. I have a 1.5 miliHenry or rather two that is good for 100 amps or more.


I need to settle on a MicroController or at least make a socket so I can impulsively switch back and forth. (Right now the ESP8266-12E is about 3 bucks so it is tempting and its WiFi. The Particle Photon is a better option, but $19, but here comes the Raspberry Pi Zero with the new camera interface at 7 ******* dollars for a whole standalone board!)
The logic for all of these options is 3.3v/3.0v Less than 100 miliamps, and since I am going to optically isolate everything for at least 5kilovolts, it will be capable of running on watch batteries and/or sipping small amounts of power. (Maybe even energy harvesting from WiFi)

-IXYS Opto-Fet 717 1ma/1.2v signal / 3amp/5a pulsed control signal opto-fet for IGBT gates


-XP1205S 9-26v to +5/0/-5 volt 1W isolated converter. (For turning on IGBTs without using the car's voltage/possible crosstalk)


-Built in Reversible Boost converter design for boosting the 15v from the alternator to something this or maybe even another type of electric supercharger can use. (top choices are 25volts(to low for me), 45volts (still to low for me), 55volts (in range, and close to voltage of 4x12v batteries charging), 60V, 72V,75V,80V,82.5v,85v, or 90v. More than 90 volts is a risk to the motor, and the lower the voltage the better off from an isolation standpoint, but again Lower Voltage, More amps, current stays the same, but parts have to be better and more expensive....
I am thinking I am pretty settled around 50 volts since it is pretty close to 4x automotive batteries in series and pretty common for Forktrucks, Marine things, and UPS units for server rooms (when they change out batteries they do them all, and usually have to pay to have the good and bad ones hauled off.....free batteries anyone?)

If you are not using supercaps, you should target 72volts and it is still common for getting battery banks, but you will need more batteries in parallel that can take a punch. Or better yet, cheap batteries that you got recycled or free that you have a lot of and can beat on without spending a bunch of money..... A GREAT source for everything including the motor, motor-drive, batteries, and controller, charger/etc, is a Industrial Floor Scrubber or Golf Cart. The golf cart is still a toy so it will be more expensive. Most of the time people struggle to get someone to take a floor scrubber for free, and it has all the same parts of the golf cart, including the expensive motor controller you need. Just add your forced induction part and your all set. At the very worst $50 bucks for a floor scrubber and some strange looks from everyone.

---Someone to help/show me how to weld these flanges onto a pipe/fabricate a bypass throttle body (have the TB), so I can test this bitch. (I am stuck here for putting it on an engine, but I am back in Illinois so I have a FC 13B/NA to test with…..PCM…..Dash…..Engine……Coils…..and diff??? well that doesn’t help this project….)

--Oh and someone to take over the argument with the insurance company over that mess. Seriously I checked, I have spent over 100 hours in the last 3 months just calling people since they refuse to call me like the law says. I don’t have the money to pursue legal action, but I don’t have the money to take a $7,000 bath and watch my baby rot in the driveway too, so I may have to….******* insurance companies man.

---Maybe a new left lung, a doctor who understands side-effects are patients trying to be difficult, and some ******* brotime after I get some strength back.
badinfluence is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
galognu
Rotary Swaps
126
05-29-2018 05:00 AM
bosstin87
Series I Tech Garage
8
10-05-2015 06:52 AM
jasonrxeight
RX-8's For Sale/Wanted
2
09-30-2015 01:53 PM
xAgyex
RX-8 Parts For Sale/Wanted
0
09-28-2015 08:54 AM
Shumster
RX-8 Parts For Sale/Wanted
0
09-10-2015 11:05 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Quick Reply: Series II ESC (Supercharger)


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.