No Sohn Adapter for Series 2 Renesis? How about Independent Oil bypass?
07-17-2020, 08:46 PM
#1
Registered
Thread Starter
No Sohn Adapter for Series 2 Renesis? How about Independent Oil bypass?
Yeah, ppl gave up when they heard "It's too hard!" "Not enough to justify!"
That didn't stop me from putting in Real Oil Pressure Meter or sub woofer (without using trunk) into my NC Miata.
Step 1. Unplug the oil feed from engine to pump 1 and put into a bypass metal barb in/out. You can use an inline fuel filter with the same fitting. If you want you can split the oil pressure switch wire and put one here. All they do is ground so if internal oil pressure is lost, you can get warning.
Step 2. Install an electric oil pump with same pressure as OE (possible adjust across RPM range?) And mount it somewhere on engine bay. Get oil to it from container used for Sohn, feed oil from it to the OMP1. Keep the oil pressure switch with OMP1 and connect to ECM, so you know when Sohn tank is empty.
Step 3. Plug the OMP2 outlet. This is to maintain the oil pressure as desired. Most likely, because of the pass through setup, both OMP DOESN'T NEED pressure so much as the engine internal itself.
Optional Step 4. Inside the Sohn tank, put in brake fluid level sensor or oil level sensor fro BMW E9x and similar generation using N5x engines. It can give you a warning light setup for oil low in tank. You'll probably need more wiring and electronic setup deeper than this simple post.
What do you think? Toyota MR-S aka the last Gen III MR-2 used an electric hydraulic pump for steering, due to engine being in the back. We can source that to pump oil to OMPs.
That didn't stop me from putting in Real Oil Pressure Meter or sub woofer (without using trunk) into my NC Miata.
Step 1. Unplug the oil feed from engine to pump 1 and put into a bypass metal barb in/out. You can use an inline fuel filter with the same fitting. If you want you can split the oil pressure switch wire and put one here. All they do is ground so if internal oil pressure is lost, you can get warning.
Step 2. Install an electric oil pump with same pressure as OE (possible adjust across RPM range?) And mount it somewhere on engine bay. Get oil to it from container used for Sohn, feed oil from it to the OMP1. Keep the oil pressure switch with OMP1 and connect to ECM, so you know when Sohn tank is empty.
Step 3. Plug the OMP2 outlet. This is to maintain the oil pressure as desired. Most likely, because of the pass through setup, both OMP DOESN'T NEED pressure so much as the engine internal itself.
Optional Step 4. Inside the Sohn tank, put in brake fluid level sensor or oil level sensor fro BMW E9x and similar generation using N5x engines. It can give you a warning light setup for oil low in tank. You'll probably need more wiring and electronic setup deeper than this simple post.
What do you think? Toyota MR-S aka the last Gen III MR-2 used an electric hydraulic pump for steering, due to engine being in the back. We can source that to pump oil to OMPs.
08-10-2020, 07:56 PM
#2
Registered
Thread Starter
Just ordered S2 OMP pair with hoses! It will help me prototype before going on the engine.
this is definitely going down. Once I get it, I need to get correct fittings and hoses for bypass oil line and feed + return lines for external feed and inline fuel pump to send oil.
Won't be as cheap as S1 Sohn mechanical pump, but should be too expensive.
this is definitely going down. Once I get it, I need to get correct fittings and hoses for bypass oil line and feed + return lines for external feed and inline fuel pump to send oil.
Won't be as cheap as S1 Sohn mechanical pump, but should be too expensive.
08-10-2020, 09:35 PM
#3
I like it that you're trying something different but I think I would just modify an s1 oil system and omp to output to s2 housings. I'm not going to knock it as I'm sure you're aware of everything people are going to come in here and say. Make sure you post lots of pictures. Good luck.
08-11-2020, 08:15 AM
#4
Registered
Thread Starter
I like it that you're trying something different but I think I would just modify an s1 oil system and omp to output to s2 housings. I'm not going to knock it as I'm sure you're aware of everything people are going to come in here and say. Make sure you post lots of pictures. Good luck.
08-11-2020, 12:03 PM
#5
Registered
There are a lot of potential issues with the S2 design on this. The OMPs are separate and mounted on top of the motor. The front cover is different as well and I'm not sure one could retrofit a S1 front cover to an S2 engine for this reason.
08-11-2020, 02:46 PM
#7
Registered
Well, its not my plan. The immediate issue is that the S1 OMP has only 4 outputs but the S2 rotor housings have 3 oil injectors each so we are 2 short right off the bat. The easiest way would be to interrupt the oil supply to the OMPs on an S2 and replace it with something else.
08-11-2020, 04:10 PM
#10
It's been done..
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...ousing-258182/
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...ousing-258182/
08-11-2020, 04:15 PM
#11
The S1 is mechanically actuated by a shaft coupled to the crank which doesn't exist on an S2. Nobody is retrofitting an S1 OMP anywhere.
The S2 EMOPs are electrically actuated but require a pressurized oil source, and can't be gravity-fed like the S1 OMP. Hence the need for a motor to pressurize the oil source in Soravia's design.
There may be 3 nozzles but oil throughput is not necessarily larger than an S1, only better distributed. Also it's not 1 EMOP per rotor, it's 1 EMOP for 4 of the injectors (the outer ones on each rotor) and another for the other 2 (the center ones in each rotor). The S1 OMP supplies oil to 4 injectors all on its own.
I'm curious where this goes.
The S2 EMOPs are electrically actuated but require a pressurized oil source, and can't be gravity-fed like the S1 OMP. Hence the need for a motor to pressurize the oil source in Soravia's design.
There may be 3 nozzles but oil throughput is not necessarily larger than an S1, only better distributed. Also it's not 1 EMOP per rotor, it's 1 EMOP for 4 of the injectors (the outer ones on each rotor) and another for the other 2 (the center ones in each rotor). The S1 OMP supplies oil to 4 injectors all on its own.
I'm curious where this goes.
Last edited by Loki; 08-11-2020 at 04:22 PM.
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ASH8 (02-17-2022)
08-11-2020, 04:55 PM
#12
Well no they aren't retrofitting an S1 OMP but it is possible to pair S2 housings with the simpler design of the S1 oiling system and retain oil injection utilizing all 3 injectors. That's way easier than what's being done here.
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ASH8 (02-17-2022)
08-14-2021, 05:45 PM
#17
not so, that’s failing before you start for not recognizing why you never should have gone down that path in the first place.
a dumb man never learns from his mistakes
a smart man eventually learns from his mistakes
but a wise man, he learns from the mistakes of those who came and went before him …
while you can likely neither see or hear it for yourself, for some it’s obvious that based on such an attempted reply you don’t even recognize what the mistake is, and if you want to call “finding out the hard way” to instead be “claiming you’re solving the problem by refining a bad idea”, then that will be a very unwise mistake indeed.
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a dumb man never learns from his mistakes
a smart man eventually learns from his mistakes
but a wise man, he learns from the mistakes of those who came and went before him …
while you can likely neither see or hear it for yourself, for some it’s obvious that based on such an attempted reply you don’t even recognize what the mistake is, and if you want to call “finding out the hard way” to instead be “claiming you’re solving the problem by refining a bad idea”, then that will be a very unwise mistake indeed.
.
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ASH8 (02-17-2022)
08-15-2021, 12:24 AM
#20
I am contributing, but you refuse the contribution because it’s not what you so dearly want to hear. While you might be dead set on making such mistakes, others who follow later may hopefully be wiser and avoid them.
Seeing as your words suggest you don’t even own an RX8, perhaps you can explain how you consider your words to be a contribution as compared to my own? Perhaps it’s your own lack of understanding that prevents you from either appreciating or understanding the contribution of someone with 16+ years of technical RX8 experience.
Did you not even consider asking a “why” question or two rather than being mistakenly triggered into firing a shot across my bow that way? I can assure you the counter response would have been much different if you had. Yet now; you being someone who quite likely doesn’t even own an RX8, want to accusingly ask me why I’m sailing in these waters? I suppose that says enough in itself to stop here.
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Seeing as your words suggest you don’t even own an RX8, perhaps you can explain how you consider your words to be a contribution as compared to my own? Perhaps it’s your own lack of understanding that prevents you from either appreciating or understanding the contribution of someone with 16+ years of technical RX8 experience.
Did you not even consider asking a “why” question or two rather than being mistakenly triggered into firing a shot across my bow that way? I can assure you the counter response would have been much different if you had. Yet now; you being someone who quite likely doesn’t even own an RX8, want to accusingly ask me why I’m sailing in these waters? I suppose that says enough in itself to stop here.
.
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ASH8 (02-17-2022)
02-16-2022, 10:55 PM
#22
ideas rarely just work; time, money, and effort are required. Get it wrong, engine death. This isn’t a guessing game. Mazda has so much resources invested in this. It’s not a simple “make a guess and voila” scenario. Not to mention all this time since the RX8 was introduced in 2003 there’s *zero* evidence that a Sohn accomplishes anything useful on an S1, let alone an S2. I’ve never had one and wouldn’t waste my resources, but knock yourself out.
it doesn’t work for you, why would it work for me?
if I went away who would be left to steer people away from terrible, pointless advice such as that and try to instead encourage them to push their brain to a higher potential?
.
if I went away who would be left to steer people away from terrible, pointless advice such as that and try to instead encourage them to push their brain to a higher potential?
.
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ASH8 (02-17-2022)
02-17-2022, 06:53 PM
#24
Super Moderator
PLEASE can people STOP posting about Sohn Adapters for SERIES 2 ENGINES as they do not exist and are not needed and will NEVER WORK.
S2 has a completely different electronically controlled MOP (Metering Oil Pump) system Via ECU/PCM with a completely different FRONT ENGINE COVER,
OIL PUMP ASSY, and completely different WIRING LOOMS
Different Plumbing and Flushing of EMOP Control System, Oil Pressure Switch Monitoring that has NEVER been used before on ANY MAZDA Rotary Engine
ever made before.
ALL THAT above is SPECIFIC to SERIES 2 Engines
I suggest you read up more BEFORE you purchase anything or post.
My reference is for 'a' Factory system and NOT for a bespoke one that you THINK is a better unit.
Seriously IF you want to improve Apex Seal lubrication and or Rotors Housing surface lubrication your best and cheapest option is to PRE-MIX in gasoline.
S2 has a completely different electronically controlled MOP (Metering Oil Pump) system Via ECU/PCM with a completely different FRONT ENGINE COVER,
OIL PUMP ASSY, and completely different WIRING LOOMS
Different Plumbing and Flushing of EMOP Control System, Oil Pressure Switch Monitoring that has NEVER been used before on ANY MAZDA Rotary Engine
ever made before.
ALL THAT above is SPECIFIC to SERIES 2 Engines
I suggest you read up more BEFORE you purchase anything or post.
My reference is for 'a' Factory system and NOT for a bespoke one that you THINK is a better unit.
Seriously IF you want to improve Apex Seal lubrication and or Rotors Housing surface lubrication your best and cheapest option is to PRE-MIX in gasoline.
02-17-2022, 06:55 PM
#25
Super Moderator
ideas rarely just work; time, money, and effort are required. Get it wrong, engine death. This isn’t a guessing game. Mazda has so much resources invested in this. It’s not a simple “make a guess and voila” scenario. Not to mention all this time since the RX8 was introduced in 2003 there’s *zero* evidence that a Sohn accomplishes anything useful on an S1, let alone an S2. I’ve never had one and wouldn’t waste my resources, but knock yourself out.
it doesn’t work for you, why would it work for me?
if I went away who would be left to steer people away from terrible, pointless advice such as that and try to instead encourage them to push their brain to a higher potential?
.
it doesn’t work for you, why would it work for me?
if I went away who would be left to steer people away from terrible, pointless advice such as that and try to instead encourage them to push their brain to a higher potential?
.