Gomez

Whiteline, the Australian suspension specialist, has developed an aftermarket DSC controller that allows the driver to adjust the factory stability setting defaults. They are the first company in the world to develop such a unit.

With the controller, you will be able to adjust your understeer/oversteer characteristics at will. Just turn two *****.

The first **** allows setting of the "bias" toward understeer or oversteer. The second **** controls the "magnitude" of DSC ops. With this **** the DSC can be dialled back to allow the DSC to kick in later.

The prototype controller has been developed for use on a Holden Astra Turbo (a rebadged European Opel). This car was selected as it has Bosch CAN system architecture (just like the RX-8!!). The CAN bus communication is apparently very difficult to intercept/modify....Whiteline have invested a lot of effort into producing a system that doesn't throw error codes.

The article I read (which is subject to copyright by AutoSpeed, an online mag I subscribe to and one I am therefore unwilling to cut and paste from) mentioned a release date of late 2006. Price is expected to be well below $1000AUD ($750USD approx).

Cheers,

Gomez.

Razz1

interesting ...

good find, but what about for track use?

usually one turns off the DSC

Gomez

Well.....having this allows the DSC to be tuned to your suspension mods, and then dialled back for use on the track. You will be able to leave DSC turned on and still retain the full benefits of DSC if you overcook it into a corner.

Really the best of both worlds....no effect on your lap times during a smooth lap, and the ability to pull you back from a spin if you make a mistake. Could save you five/ten seconds........

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

The thing is that the only way it can be tuned for understeer or oversteer is if it applies the brakes early to actually cause oversteer or understeer. All the DSC really has access to is the throttle and each brake caliper.

Seems like it would be going off all the time to make a car oversteer or understeer. Might make for some fun times, but wouldn't make for a faster car.

I'd bet that the oversteer/understeer "adjustment" just allows more of one of those before it catches you. It doesn't change the native way the car handles.

Pretty cool idea, but if they can get that deep into the CAN bus, why don't they just let us re-flash everything?

Gomez

This is true, I said as much in my first post. The benefit though is in having control of whether the car is an understeerer or an oversteerer, and then tuning when that takes place. Your modified suspension, your tyre pressure and tyre selection, choice of swaybar, spring, strut....all of these effect your cars handling performance. Now you can use the DSC as a tool to tune....you couldn't do that before.

epitrochoid

all i'd want it to do it let me have a little fun on corner exits, but not let me loose control when a back wheel hits the road paint (that **** is slick!)

cool piece though...although i'd probably just turn it down..the system seems decently balanced as it is

peloponisios

With my poor mind I think that with this gizmo, maybe there is a way to "adjust" the DSC per your horsepower.

What I am thinking is, let's say our car produces 350whp, the problem is that the ABS and DSC controls cannot be adjusted to the new data therefore you are running out of hands in a bad turn and the DSC doesn't help. This unit may show a way to solve this problem.

Red Devil

^^^
Just what I was thinking. This would be way cool for those of us with modified suspensions or powertrains...

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

What does DSC have to do with horsepower? DSC becomes active when the steering wheel angle no longer matches the actual angle the car is achieving. It applies individual brakes and/or backs off the power until this situation is resolved.

Doesn't matter if you have 100 HP or 500 HP. It's not like having more horsepower makes the car stick better or worse in a corner. You can still only go through a corner at a certian speed and with a certian amount of power applied.

ABS is even less affected- it triggers when a wheel stops spinning while the others are still spinning. This system doesn't even know about your engine at all!

zaglo6204

with more power, there is more potential for sliding out in a corner...

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

What I am trying to say is that no DSC controller can "control" if your car oversteers or understeers. It can only "catch" it when it oversteers or understeers. Unless the DSC starts triggering the brakes the instant you turn the wheel, it's not even active until the car starts to slide on either end. When it starts to slide, and via which end, is completely dependent on the suspension setup you have and has nothing to do with the DSC.

The only thing this can really do is allow more oversteer or more understeer. Normally DSC allows some amount of this, and once you go beyond that angle, it catches the car and straightens it out. This could increase the angle allowed before it's caught.

This is a strong tradeoff though- not every slide is "catchable." The later the DSC is allowed to come into play, the less likely it will be able to help you out. Remember that the DSC can only back off the power or brake individual wheels. It can't turn the steering wheel. Once the car is sideways enough, braking individual wheels doesn't matter since they are no longer really traveling forward. If you allow too much oversteer in DSC, the car could spin all day with the DSC going off because the spin was still in the allowable slip angle.

If you make the DSC allow a wide range of angles, it also becomes dangerous when it catches the car. Imagine you are in a nice power slide, tail out, adjusting the turn radious with your foot. Eventually you get beyond the angle the DSC allows. It suddenly grabs the car, backs off the power, and straightens it out. Suddenly you're in a turn that has a wider radius than it did before. Hello off-track excursion!

DSC is a system that is designed for the street and is designed to be intrusive. It's designed to keep the car in a simple relationsihip with the driver- turn the wheel this amount, the car turns this amount. This is the relationship that people have with their cars 99.9% of the time, so it's what the average driver expects. Once you start allowing some slip in there, you're saying that you have a certian amount of driving skill and know what you are doing. But how do you know how good you are and when it should step in? Turn the DSC down too far and you will be able to totaly loose control of the car even if the DSC pops on at some point.

Not saying this is a horrible idea, but it's a track tool. Driving around on the street with DSC allowing 10 degrees of oversteer before it pops on is basically driving without it.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

The only solution to this is to reduce the power all the time. The DSC doesn't care that there is a higher chance you will slide. What's it going to do about it? All it can do is step in when the driver mis-calculates the situation and overpowers the corner. Just because you have 500 HP doesn't mean you'll push the pedal far enough to use it, so the DSC can't do anything until you do.

DSC is triggered by the actual slide occuring. This could be because you're going 80 MPH in a tight corner in the dry, or 17 MPH in the snow. It doesn't know about pavement friction, which is the biggest factor, so why should it care about theoretical HP that the engine could generate?

Gomez

Nope. This thing can induce oversteer by applying braking to one wheel when cornering...ie, it will brake the inside front wheel to induce oversteer if you turn the bias up from the 50% default setting. (It doesn't say as much in the article I read, but I assume understeer will conversely be induced by braking the outside rear wheel when the bias **** is turned to less than 50%....)

Gomez

Keep an eye on Whiteline's website, they'll have some info about this controller on there soon enough......

SilverEIGHT

Sweet! Nice find Gomez.

L8APEX

This is a pretty cool idea. Especially for those of us with a heavily modified suspension. The computer does not like what the new suspension allows, and overreacts in a situation that doe snot need interference. I have experienced that problem more on the street than on the track. But this would be nice for those corners on track where a good 4 wheel drift is almost required to get through the corner as quick as possible.

I will keep my eye on it, but $750 seems like a lot, when I could just learn to drive with it off, or deal with it on. Since I am not really racing, just having fun.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

I'm trying to figure out who would ever tune in "understeer" if it's artifical. You're driving along and suddenly the controller starts braking the outside wheel in order to make the car turn less than you want it too while also slowing you down, even though your tires have plenty of grip to turn harder.

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

So I am lazy and only read a little, but I would be very interested to have a speed sensitive DSC modifier. That way you could tune the suspension to be a little loose at slow speeds (for rotation) yet have the mod turn on so that you could be safely tight for 110mph sweepers!

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

You want to have a little understeer at high speed. Makes for cleaner underwear.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

No you don't. You want perfectly neutral handling. I still don't think that having the DSC grab my outside brake every time I turn the wheel would be very confidence inspiring.

You realize that what this system does is to actually *destabilize* the car. DSC used to kick in only to correct a car that was already unstable. They're now using the DSC to purposefully upset the handling to get the car to do something it doesn't want to naturally.

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Well, I disagree, but my disagreement might depend on what you are saying. What I meant was that tuning a car to have a slight oversteer tendency at low speeds and a slight understeer feel at high speeds is generally a preferable track setup over an absolutely neutral car. Hell, this might be what you would call a neutral handling car. This way you can get sharp turn in at lower speed, tighter corners, yet not be scared out of your mind at high speeds when your *** steps out.

I would tentativly agree with you that an electronic override of a natural handling tendancy might feel weird and even squirlley. I just dont know until I, or someone else, tried it.