A Very Nice Driving Improvement
12-12-2003, 08:45 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Very Nice Driving Improvement
I drove down to Wichita Falls, TX today and had my Stock tires Siped today. Belive it or not this was a recomendation from my mother.. Mother knows best right? :D
There was some freezing rain and light snow here in Altus, OK (I'm TDY in School) And the effect was quite noticable... The car really handled the icey roads alot better on the way home. (After the tires we're siped) No noticable wheel spin, and the car stopped with a lot more authority. Much like it performed when the tires and outside temp were warm. Keep in mind these are just my personal observations.
This might be something to consider for those who can't afford to buy winter tires this season. (New toys are expensive aren't they?.. hehe) It does provide a really nice improvement, however I'm sure it doesn't compare to a good set of winter rubber. Although, I'm satisfied it'll keep my butt and my beloved 8' going a straight line when I do have to drive it this winter.
-Jason Peters
B-52H Crew Chief USAF
(Soon to be E-3 Flight Engineer)
PS - I saw a nice lookin' yellow 8' while I was down in wichita falls... On Kemp around 1-ish.. (First time I'd seen an 8' on the road besides my own) Anybody from here?
There was some freezing rain and light snow here in Altus, OK (I'm TDY in School) And the effect was quite noticable... The car really handled the icey roads alot better on the way home. (After the tires we're siped) No noticable wheel spin, and the car stopped with a lot more authority. Much like it performed when the tires and outside temp were warm. Keep in mind these are just my personal observations.
This might be something to consider for those who can't afford to buy winter tires this season. (New toys are expensive aren't they?.. hehe) It does provide a really nice improvement, however I'm sure it doesn't compare to a good set of winter rubber. Although, I'm satisfied it'll keep my butt and my beloved 8' going a straight line when I do have to drive it this winter.
-Jason Peters
B-52H Crew Chief USAF
(Soon to be E-3 Flight Engineer)
PS - I saw a nice lookin' yellow 8' while I was down in wichita falls... On Kemp around 1-ish.. (First time I'd seen an 8' on the road besides my own) Anybody from here?
12-12-2003, 09:20 PM
#2
Integrity First...
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas (Sheppard AFB)
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I live in Wichita Falls and have yet to see one 8 around town. Trust me, I've been looking. I'm getting ready to get mine next month or Feb. Looks like I may be one of few in the W.Falls area. Hey USAF RX8 check your PM...
12-13-2003, 04:08 AM
#4
Bottom feeder
question about siping tires...
1. some say it wears out the tire more, others say it makes it last longer.. which is it?
2. some say it makes the tire quieter, others say the reverse.. which is it?
I think it would make it louder because the wear pattern created will cause the increase in sound.. (wears on the grip side of each siped "fin").
3. would this be beneficial for regular touring needs or is it mainly for improvement on slippery surfaces?
4. what is the typical cost of getting your tires siped?
1. some say it wears out the tire more, others say it makes it last longer.. which is it?
2. some say it makes the tire quieter, others say the reverse.. which is it?
I think it would make it louder because the wear pattern created will cause the increase in sound.. (wears on the grip side of each siped "fin").
3. would this be beneficial for regular touring needs or is it mainly for improvement on slippery surfaces?
4. what is the typical cost of getting your tires siped?
12-13-2003, 07:37 AM
#6
Registered User
Originally posted by neit_jnf
WHAT IS SIPING??? I JUST DON'T HAVE A CLUE AT WHAT IT MEANS. DOES IT INVOLVE CUTTING A DIFFERENT TREAD PATTERN? PLEASE EXPLAIN
WHAT IS SIPING??? I JUST DON'T HAVE A CLUE AT WHAT IT MEANS. DOES IT INVOLVE CUTTING A DIFFERENT TREAD PATTERN? PLEASE EXPLAIN
12-13-2003, 07:42 AM
#7
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-13-2003, 09:07 AM
#9
Mr. Blue Man
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I too never heard of this. Even if I knew this before the Winter tire purchase, I'm sure i would have went with the snow tires, but it's always good to learn more.
Thanks for posting.
Thanks for posting.
12-13-2003, 09:38 AM
#10
Integrity First...
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas (Sheppard AFB)
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm.... I had never heard of that before. Interesting concept. I may have a hard time cutting my tires no matter how much I'm told how safe it is. I'm glad to hear it worked, though. I am interested in the long term effects of siping. ie: handling on dry pavement and tire wear... Anybody have any results they would like to share??
12-13-2003, 10:23 AM
#11
Registered
Siping has been around for quite a long time. It helps wet traction and snow traction on some tires, like all-seasons.
However - big warning here - it will do nothing for the tread compound phase change that happens with high performance summer tires, where the tread essentially 'freezes' and loses a lot of grip at below-freezing temperatures. Many people have reported that their tires seem slippery on dry pavement when it's cold out - that's the tread compound losing grip. Siping won't do anything to change that, so braking and cornering grip will still be greatly reduced.
Regards,
Gordon
However - big warning here - it will do nothing for the tread compound phase change that happens with high performance summer tires, where the tread essentially 'freezes' and loses a lot of grip at below-freezing temperatures. Many people have reported that their tires seem slippery on dry pavement when it's cold out - that's the tread compound losing grip. Siping won't do anything to change that, so braking and cornering grip will still be greatly reduced.
Regards,
Gordon
12-13-2003, 10:50 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Gordon, I knew you wouldn't resist throwing out your opinion on this :D hehe
As I said, I'm positive that this is not a replacement for a good set of winter rubber on your car. However it is a VERY noticable improvement. I'm not saying siping turns your car into a snowplow... but for $40 the car feels much more responsive on slick surfaces. (Again My personal driving impressions.) Thats money well spent in my book seeing as how I can't afford winter tires this season.
I still very much agree its best to keep the car put up. But, when I do have to drive it this season... At least me and my beloved 8' will go in a straight line.. hehe So, like I said definetly something to consider for those who aren't able to afford a good set of winter rubber this season.
As I said, I'm positive that this is not a replacement for a good set of winter rubber on your car. However it is a VERY noticable improvement. I'm not saying siping turns your car into a snowplow... but for $40 the car feels much more responsive on slick surfaces. (Again My personal driving impressions.) Thats money well spent in my book seeing as how I can't afford winter tires this season.
I still very much agree its best to keep the car put up. But, when I do have to drive it this season... At least me and my beloved 8' will go in a straight line.. hehe So, like I said definetly something to consider for those who aren't able to afford a good set of winter rubber this season.
12-13-2003, 11:49 PM
#13
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: So Cal
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting! Will siping improve dry cornering in warmer climes like Southern California? Quiter, softer ride with increased traction sounds too good to be true, but I'm open minded about it.
12-14-2003, 08:54 AM
#14
Institution Escapee
It really baffles me that so many people can afford a fairly expensive car such as an RX-8 but can't afford a set of snow tires.....I just don't get it. With the high potential for an expensive mishap due to runnning the stock rubber on this car you think would be enough for people that live in areas that get snow to invest in a good set of winter tires.
12-15-2003, 02:21 PM
#15
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Jag. If you live where you have a snowy winter, and knowing what tires came on the car, you had to plan on buying a set of winter tires.
One problem, though, is that many dealers probably could not have helped buyers forecast the cost of winter tires, because the dealer was probably not aware of what wheels would fit. After shopping, I was disappointed that an alloy wheel was required. This makes a winter tire set more costly than for most cars, but it's necessary if you're going to drive it all year.
One problem, though, is that many dealers probably could not have helped buyers forecast the cost of winter tires, because the dealer was probably not aware of what wheels would fit. After shopping, I was disappointed that an alloy wheel was required. This makes a winter tire set more costly than for most cars, but it's necessary if you're going to drive it all year.
12-15-2003, 02:42 PM
#16
F125er/Future RX-8er
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WI, USA
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep, I agree with Jag and zoom.
Zoom... I'd also have liked to go the "cheap steelie" route, but 1) they'd have never fit, and 2) they'd have looked like cr@p on the 8. On any other car, I wouldn't care.
But there's something about the 8 that just should never allow it to be seen wearing naked steelies.
Zoom... I'd also have liked to go the "cheap steelie" route, but 1) they'd have never fit, and 2) they'd have looked like cr@p on the 8. On any other car, I wouldn't care.
But there's something about the 8 that just should never allow it to be seen wearing naked steelies.
12-31-2003, 01:42 PM
#19
Mr. Blue Man
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Post from another board on this subject...
Scientific Test Prove Snow Traction Improvements Up to 200% by Saf-Tee Siping Process
PHOENIX, Oct. 30 /PRNewswire/ -- New independent tests prove that consumers who have their tires professionally siped can improve traction capabilities in cold-weather-driving on basic all-season tires and high-performance tires. The process, done by the patented Saf-Tee Siping equipment, can turn a good all-season tire into "severe snow service" status, and can improve low-profile, high-performance tires enough to go from free-spinning to the level of good all-season tires.
An independent company that has run thousands of tires through snow and ice tests conducted cold-weather-driving tests on selected contemporary tires in February of 2003 in Houghton, Mich, and the results indicate tires can gain significantly improved traction after undergoing the Saf-Tee Siping procedure. The Goodyear Eagle LS, a good all-season tire, and the Michelin Pilot Sport, a comparatively new tire that is original equipment on numerous high performance sedans and coupes, were chosen for this year's tests, which compared them to the Uniroyal Tiger Paw, the industry-standard base all-season tire.
On a controlled course in Houghton, Mich., all the tires were run on a drive wheel at 5 miles per hour, and then the test vehicles drive axle was accelerated until the tires broke traction. The vehicle maintained its 5 mph pace while data from the spinning tire was accumulated. The test and base tires were tested through 10 consecutive rotations a day, for three consecutive days, on a snow-packed test site maintained at a "medium compacted" level, with the temperature at 15 or 16 degrees. All data was gathered according to American Society of Testing and Materials standards or more technically none as the ASTM F1805-00 Gradient Correction Method.
The test tires all measured 205-55, mounted on 16-inch wheels. In unsiped form, the traction with the Goodyear Eagle LS measured 101 percent of the base tire; the siped Goodyear Eagle LS measured 134 percent of the traction of the base tire. That 33 percent improvement boosted the Eagle LS into the realm of "severe snow service," awarded only to tires that achieve 110 percent of the base tire's traction, and which the siped Goodyear easily surpassed at 134 percent.
The unsiped Michelin Pilot Sport read only 35 percent of the base all-season tire's traction. This was no surprise because this type of tire would normally be a free spinning slip-slide in these driving conditions. Two siped Michelin Pilot Sports were tested, with the SAF-TEE Siping process cut on slightly different depths on each. One of them showed an improvement of 93 percent of the base all-season tire, while the other improved to 103 percent.
Past tests have proven that tires put through the brief and inexpensive process on a Saf-Tee Siping machine improved traction to accelerate, steer and stop. The concern that the slits could adversely affect wear were eliminated because heat is the major cause of high-speed or long trips, and the siped slits also ventilate the tire treads and can improve tire life. Visit sipers.com or contact Saf-Tee Siping & Grooving at 800.223.4540 to review the scientific test results and get results from other tests conducted.
Scientific Test Prove Snow Traction Improvements Up to 200% by Saf-Tee Siping Process
PHOENIX, Oct. 30 /PRNewswire/ -- New independent tests prove that consumers who have their tires professionally siped can improve traction capabilities in cold-weather-driving on basic all-season tires and high-performance tires. The process, done by the patented Saf-Tee Siping equipment, can turn a good all-season tire into "severe snow service" status, and can improve low-profile, high-performance tires enough to go from free-spinning to the level of good all-season tires.
An independent company that has run thousands of tires through snow and ice tests conducted cold-weather-driving tests on selected contemporary tires in February of 2003 in Houghton, Mich, and the results indicate tires can gain significantly improved traction after undergoing the Saf-Tee Siping procedure. The Goodyear Eagle LS, a good all-season tire, and the Michelin Pilot Sport, a comparatively new tire that is original equipment on numerous high performance sedans and coupes, were chosen for this year's tests, which compared them to the Uniroyal Tiger Paw, the industry-standard base all-season tire.
On a controlled course in Houghton, Mich., all the tires were run on a drive wheel at 5 miles per hour, and then the test vehicles drive axle was accelerated until the tires broke traction. The vehicle maintained its 5 mph pace while data from the spinning tire was accumulated. The test and base tires were tested through 10 consecutive rotations a day, for three consecutive days, on a snow-packed test site maintained at a "medium compacted" level, with the temperature at 15 or 16 degrees. All data was gathered according to American Society of Testing and Materials standards or more technically none as the ASTM F1805-00 Gradient Correction Method.
The test tires all measured 205-55, mounted on 16-inch wheels. In unsiped form, the traction with the Goodyear Eagle LS measured 101 percent of the base tire; the siped Goodyear Eagle LS measured 134 percent of the traction of the base tire. That 33 percent improvement boosted the Eagle LS into the realm of "severe snow service," awarded only to tires that achieve 110 percent of the base tire's traction, and which the siped Goodyear easily surpassed at 134 percent.
The unsiped Michelin Pilot Sport read only 35 percent of the base all-season tire's traction. This was no surprise because this type of tire would normally be a free spinning slip-slide in these driving conditions. Two siped Michelin Pilot Sports were tested, with the SAF-TEE Siping process cut on slightly different depths on each. One of them showed an improvement of 93 percent of the base all-season tire, while the other improved to 103 percent.
Past tests have proven that tires put through the brief and inexpensive process on a Saf-Tee Siping machine improved traction to accelerate, steer and stop. The concern that the slits could adversely affect wear were eliminated because heat is the major cause of high-speed or long trips, and the siped slits also ventilate the tire treads and can improve tire life. Visit sipers.com or contact Saf-Tee Siping & Grooving at 800.223.4540 to review the scientific test results and get results from other tests conducted.
12-31-2003, 02:00 PM
#20
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I too have never heard of siping (pronounced sigh-ping?). I can only guess that anyting that increases friction would have to increase wear. There is no free lunch on the traction vs. wear formula.
DeBug
DeBug
12-31-2003, 03:46 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: texas
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i live outside wichita. there's a red -8 that is parked on scott st, between 10th and 14th (i think). driven by a lady, faik. i've yet to get an -8, but am patiently waiting til the time arrives. did you get yours thru herb easley? what kind of deal did you get? good experience? um... maybe these questions should be in a diff thread. my bad. i'll look you up when i get mine.
01-02-2004, 02:45 PM
#22
MSU Spartans
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Okemos, MI
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just got my tires siped today. To my perception there is definately a quieter ride, which able to hear the sound of the engine more. As for handling, seems like traction is better and handling is more responsive. Hey for $40 you can't go wrong.
01-02-2004, 05:17 PM
#23
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi performance summer tires stick well in part because of compounds and in part because their cornering limits are aided by their bigger, less-squirmy treadblocks and proportionately greater amount of rubber meeting the road surface.
Siping 'might' lower your dry-weather cornering traction limits somewhat because the cuts across the treadblocks effectively make them smaller, squirmier treadblocks. But unless you were constantly pushing the dry traction limit of the tire (and none of us do that, of course..) only your butt-dyno should be able to tell the difference.
It would be interesting to see a track-test comparison between a siped and non-siped high performance summer tire.
Siping 'might' lower your dry-weather cornering traction limits somewhat because the cuts across the treadblocks effectively make them smaller, squirmier treadblocks. But unless you were constantly pushing the dry traction limit of the tire (and none of us do that, of course..) only your butt-dyno should be able to tell the difference.
It would be interesting to see a track-test comparison between a siped and non-siped high performance summer tire.
01-03-2004, 06:14 PM
#24
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glad it worked out for you Titanium.... I noticed the same improvments you did. That was the whole idea of posting this.. Just tossing more idea's out there to the 8' Community.
01-22-2004, 01:51 PM
#25
Administrator
got my stock tires siped yesterday at the local Les Schwab tire center. $13 a tire and about 1/2 an hour. definetly noticed a quieter ride on the way home. we have some rain coming in the next day or so, i'll let you know if i feel a difference in wet traction. i don't expect to be able to feel it. by the way they use the Saf-T siping that was mentioned above.