Billy04RX8

Hey guys im in the market for a coilover system for my 8.....Right off the bat im interested in the Tein flex coilover because i know they are a very reputable suspension company and also have the option of the EDFC and for those who don't know what that is it's an Electronic Dampening Force Controller......Which has 3 presets for track street etc......basically you can contorl the type of setup on the fly............i have noticed tho through searching posts and websites taht a lot of people have gone for the JIc's i do think they are very nice looking but do not knwo how well they perform.........my frined just had the tein flex w/ edfc installed on his 95 lexus sc300 with a 2JZ engine....they are very nice and handle amazing..........also how easy is the level of installlation.......looking at the stock strut and spring it looks easy to remove and plese let me know im looking to be able to go to the track a few times here and there have a nice drop and be able to drive hard around the streets and hold the turns amazingly!!!!!!!!!! Thanks guys please help me out and some places wehre they are sold cheap !
-Billy

DPE

iTrader: (1)

We don't carry JIC, but the Tein Flex do work quite well on the car. And the EDFC is pretty slick to play around with, though from a performance standpoint it doesn't really add anything. Just makes it easier to change shock damping, obviously.

The install is fairly straightforward, and with a coilover equipped with upper mounts it's further simplified by not having to mess with compressing springs. If you purchase from us, we're happy to send along our own instructions with torque specs, and of course you can call any time for technical support if you run into issues. For more details on the Tein Flex, you can look here:

http://www.dpeweb.com/ProductDetails...6&vehicleID=58

Additionally, we also have a really good deal going on one set of HKS Hipermax II coilovers that we have in stock, if that is of any interest to you. You can look here for those: http://www.dpeweb.com/ProductDetails...4&vehicleID=58

Feel free to give us a call or email if you'd like to discuss these or other options more thoroughly.

Endless Rotaries

iTrader: (6)

So some basic differences between the two coilovers you have asked about:

1. Tein Flex = Twin Tube
2. JIC FLT-A2 = Monotube

Flex designed for street, FLT-A2 more suitable and sturdy for track.

Your most inherent flaw to a twin tube damper is it's issues with "viscosity" creating heat and cavitation of the gas and oil, resulting in a loss of performance over repeated use. Say mountain driving or autox etc....

I can go deep into detail but it's real late right now. Things to look for other than price is longevity of the suspension, quality of its coatings, and servicability.

If you desire to track the vehicle I would say no to the Tein Flex's, if you desire to drive the vehicle on the street I would say no to the JIC FLT-A2's. LOL!!! I've used both on my 2nd Gen RX7's, pretty much experimented with all of them. Tried to stick to ones with warranty or servicability in the US. However if that is your budget constraints they might be your only option.

If you feel that you want to have a suspension that will grow with you as your relationship with the vehicles dynamics improve then I would suggest something that is definitely custom valvable for the future. So at a time maybe 3-4 years down the road when the coils need to be rebuilt you can actually have them built to your spec the way you want it to be.

I just recently purchased my RX8 and had the "budget" concern also but because of my experience in the past with coilover brands on my FC i stayed with Zeals. They have amazing customer support and work very closely one on one with you if you were to need custom valving done or even stupid stupid questions. I know a few of my questions years ago were actually emailed to japan and responded within a couple days. If you check out their testimonials on their website you'll see what i'm talking about.

Their coils ride so goooood. But they cost more, however in the long run end up being less costly because of their build quality and customer service.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

FYI, JIC now sells the FLT-A2s in two "flavors" - "H"and "S." S uses lower spring rates and is more sutiable for street use.

I have FLT-A2s on my Miata and have been highly impressed by them. Given their very high spring rates (more on the "H" end of the spectrum) they are surprisingly comfortable. When I ordered them I was looking for performance over comfort (which is why I went JIC instead of Tein) and was prepared for a stiff ride, but it never materialized. I have no problem taking the car on long road trips, and both wheel and body control from the mono-tubes is fantastic. If the RX-8 implementation is like the Miata, the "S" would make for a killer street setup.

If you want to talk to somebody who is running (and selling) JICs on the RX-8, go here and dial the number:

www.good-win-racing.com

George

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Though monotube is a superior design to twin tube, don't put too much stock in it when choosing a coilover. We run various Tein models on several different cars, and have yet to experience 'shock fade' even in 30-minute track sessions. It's simply nothing to be concerned about unless you are racing wheel to wheel competitively.

The quality of the valving has far more to do with how the shock performs than whether it's a mono or twin tube design. And I've seen nothing to indicate any of the commonly available Japanese coilovers has significantly better valving than the others.

This is not an attempt to sway you away from JIC, I'm just trying to make the point that the twin-tube vs. mono-tube debate has been made out to be far more important than it actually is for street cars that see occasional track use.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

I agree - I've run twin tube Tokico Illumina (not HP!) with GC coolivers in my Miata on the track and experenced no fade that I could discern.

However, there are other advantages to mono tube design, such as a larger diameter piston, which results in a more precise reaction to bumps in the road. At least, this is what the theory says. I can say that my JICs seem very reactive and supple when compared to the Illuminas, with the Tokicos being much more sensitive (from a ride quality perspective) to the evils of stiff sway bars and unsprung weight. With the Illuminas I found myself backing off the sway bar size and being very sensitive to unsprung weight, where the JICs just seem to shrug offf the big bar and a few extra lbs of wheel weight. I've heard others make similar comments when comparing Bilsteins (mono) to Konis (twin).

However I've never driven Teins so I don't know how how that comparison would shake out. We have multiple people in the Miata community now running JICs with very high spring rates and they are all amazed at the ride quality (including Flyin' Miata, who used JICs in their Super Tuner Four shoootout car). Whether or not this results in a quantifiable increase in grip over imperfect surfaces has not been established. To be fair, I'll also point out that we have TONS of Tein users and they seem quite satisfied as well.

I'd like to try the Flexs with the same rates as my JICs. It would be an interesting comparison. I do think the JICs are a significant cut above Illuminas or Konis, but then again the Teins sound like they are as well.

BTW, I heard that Tein is going mono tube in their next generation of coilovers? Do you know if there is any truth to this?

DPE

iTrader: (1)

The Tokico Illumina is a good OEM replacement shock that happens to be adjustable. It's really a stretch to call it a 'high performance' shock. I find that on most cars with even mildly lower/stiffer springs, you have to crank them up to their highest setting to get the necessary damping out of them, and even then they don't respond as smoothly as I'd like.

Koni is a big step up from the Illumina. I've run them on several of my own cars and have always been impressed with the linear response and ability to damp the spring without being too harsh. They really do wonders for the RX-8 with aftermarket springs. Not as many setup options as something like the JIC or the Flex (due to not being able to adjust ride height or corner-weight the car), but I believe they offer similar damping qualities and likely are the best option for those wanting their aftermarket suspension to last 100k miles with no worries. I will say it seems like the Miata crowd has never been overwhelmed by Konis; they must not have tuned that particular application very well. If you look at a lot of other performance car forums, people seem to be more impressed with them. And I certainly have been on the applications I've driven.

For those reading along, we have yet to try Tokico D-specs on anything. They should be a massive upgrade over the Illuminas, but whether they meet or exceed the performance of Koni Sports remains to be seen.

I know all of the thories on mono-tube vs. twin-tube, and I think they are absolutely correct; in theory. In the real world, from what we've seen, that aspect of damper design hasn't come into play in any significant way when applied to street cars. Once again, for the hardcore 1%ers that live on the track and are in tune with every little nuance of their car's chassis, they may be able to detect a tangible benefit of the monotube damper. For the other 99%, it's probably not something worth worrying about.

As for Tein, I'm not sure of the design of their next generation of 'mainstream' coilovers. They already make quite a few monotube dampers in their high-end coilovers (Type RA, RS, RE, Circuit Master, etc.), but I'm not sure if they're planning on doing that with their whole lineup. I'll be heading out to SEMA tomorrow though, and Tein will be there, so I'll be sure to find out and post here next week.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

In my experience, the above is completely untrue. On my Miata the Illuminas had no problem handling springs over 2x stock when set to mid-stiffness. As I stated earlier they were a bit harsh (although, to be fair, that was with them set to full stiff for auto-x & track work). I had my Illuminas dynoed (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/292195/2) and both the dyno operator (road racer/ Bilstein & Penske distributor / mechanical engineer) and a well respected Solo II tuner were quite impressed with the curves. Of course, curves don't tell the whole story but to say that it is a stretch to consider the Illuminas a high performance shock is simply untrue, in my experience.

Anyway, not looking to get into a p***ing contest - just stating my experieces with the Tokicos. Please do report back from SEMA.

gh0st

DPE i know you have experiance with konis so i have a question. ive read in a few places that the konis dont work well with the mazdaspeed springs. any ideas as to why they said that?


denward

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

most of the quality shock manufacturers now use synthetic fluids that don't boil or fade, that is sort of old school thinking

the real advantage of a quality monotube shock is low speed velocity control, but to take advantage of it you have to have a heim joint suspension because it doesn't do any good to have a super precise shock when the control arms etc. are moving around on rubber bushings in an uncontrolled manner. By quality monotube shock I'm referring to Koni 30 & 28 series, Peske, Moton, Ohlins, etc. that typically cost $1000+ each. The monotube shocks you get in a $1600 coilover kit are likely no more precise, if they even match, a Koni double-tube shock which uses a very intricate valving system.

having had a hand in the development of the Koni production shock for the RX-8 (forum member "clyde"s RX-8 served as the prototype vehicle), there's no reason for there to be any issue with using the Mazdaspeed springs on them. The shock valving is more than adequate for those spring rates. Most people aren't very well informed about shock design and tuning. I could literally spend all day here trying to address misinformed postings.

The Mazdaspeed springs are quite a bit stiffer than most of the other "sport" springs. There's a thread here somewhere listing the various "sport" sporing rates. Run too soft of a shock setting with a stiff spring and it will bounce, it's just simple dynamics. More than likely the Koni was not adjusted properly. Mazdaspeed chose to go with stiffer springs and not so stiff swaybars.

The other springs use a lower rate which provides a smoother ride, but then rely on significantly stiffer swaybars to control body roll. It's two different ways to tackle the same issue. The stiffer spring/softer bar that MS chose is generally considered to be better for performance, the other is better for street ride quality. Some people are more tolerant of a stiffer ride than others, it just depends on what is important to you. Take your pick.

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Looks like TeamRX8 answered the Koni question; indeed, no reason they wouldn't work well with MS springs that I can think of. They certainly work well with both models of Tein springs, when adjusted correctly to fairly low settings. As a starting guess I'd say MS springs would work well with the Konis set at about 50%, possibly a bit less.

As for the Illuminas, I only have experience with them on larger, heavier cars. And sometimes it seems like shock makers get their aftermarket shocks 'right' for some cars and wrong for others, leading to dissenting opinions such as we have here. I know the MR2 crowd was pretty fond of Illuminas, I just haven't felt like they work as well as Koni on a given application. And we do sell both, so it's not that kind of bias .

At any rate, not sure if the original poster is still paying attention at this point, but it should be pretty clear that you can't go too wrong with Tein or JIC regardless of the type of shock they use. I think you will be happy with your choice and end up with a high quality suspension system either way.

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Having talked with Tein at SEMA, they are replacing their RA and RE series with a line called the Tein Mono-Flex, which as one might expect is basically a Tein Flex coilover with a Monotube damper. These will be out next summer, and the RX-8 IS one of the applications in the works. Also, they'll be priced only a 'small amount' higher than the regular twin-tube Tein Flex, which will remain in production. The Basic and SS lines will remain the same, and all of their 'main' lines (Basic, SS, Flex) are growing significantly in how many different applications they cover.

Additionally, by the end of the week we'll likely be an official JIC dealer, and will be testing out FLT-A2s asap. JIC is getting pretty serious about the RX-8 market, and though many of their parts are race/drift only kinds of things, there's a lot of good streetable stuff available as well.

Lots of other stuff from SEMA, but the above is what is pertinent to this thread.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the report - I look forward to hearing your opinion of the JICs.