Sway bar comparo... Opinions?
02-27-2006, 11:11 PM
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Sway bar comparo... Opinions?
I'm looking at getting sway bars for my car. I am rather price driven, so I want the best performance for the money.
Options:
Racing Beat
- Hollow, so only a little heavier than stock
- a little pricier
Whiteline
-Solid, so even heavier
-less money
I don't really know anything about the Mazdaspeed bars...
Can anyone share any experiences or make any suggestions? Any other options?
Thanks.
Options:
Racing Beat
- Hollow, so only a little heavier than stock
- a little pricier
Whiteline
-Solid, so even heavier
-less money
I don't really know anything about the Mazdaspeed bars...
Can anyone share any experiences or make any suggestions? Any other options?
Thanks.
02-28-2006, 05:53 AM
#2
Momentum Keeps Me Going
...send a PM w/this advice a few days ago...did you get it? Now you want more 
opinions 
?
opinions ?
Originally Posted by spin9k
Admittedly, I may be biased...but I do try to be scientific as well - so IMO they {WL} offer the MOST performance difference possible, which is why I bought them over the others.
Why? Although hollow is a tad lighter, solid is still stiffer. Without increasing the bar diameter significantly above stock size and causing fitting/clearance issues (which no one does) there's no way around this. Here's something to read about this topic - http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/Hollow vs Solid Swaybar.pdf
When I installed the bars I weighed the OEMs and the WL. Both WLs together were 9.4 lbs more than the OEMs. RB and other hollow bars will weigh less, but still more than the OEMs so the dif is likely to be 5lbs more for others vs 9.4 for WLs. Only a very small fraction of this add'l weight is sprung weight, ~100 grams per corner. The 9lbs total unsprung weight is simply a non-issue vs the rewards. Plus at the time the WLs were the only adjustable available and I love to play with things.
In the end it's a personal decision for you - have fun whatever you get - it's all good!
Why? Although hollow is a tad lighter, solid is still stiffer. Without increasing the bar diameter significantly above stock size and causing fitting/clearance issues (which no one does) there's no way around this. Here's something to read about this topic - http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/Hollow vs Solid Swaybar.pdf
When I installed the bars I weighed the OEMs and the WL. Both WLs together were 9.4 lbs more than the OEMs. RB and other hollow bars will weigh less, but still more than the OEMs so the dif is likely to be 5lbs more for others vs 9.4 for WLs. Only a very small fraction of this add'l weight is sprung weight, ~100 grams per corner. The 9lbs total unsprung weight is simply a non-issue vs the rewards. Plus at the time the WLs were the only adjustable available and I love to play with things.
In the end it's a personal decision for you - have fun whatever you get - it's all good!
02-28-2006, 08:02 AM
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If price is your main factor for buying sways, then I say go with the whitelines. I have the racing beat sways and to tell you the truth I really don't know how much better they are compared to the others, all I know is that I can feel the difference in corners and that Im happy with my decision.
02-28-2006, 08:31 AM
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While weight and price and important, I think what is more important is the stiffness of the bars you are looking at. The Whiteline adjustables are not an equal percentage jump from front to rear. The rears are 20-30% stiffer. But overall the rears are ~80% stiffer than OEM and the fronts 50-60% stiffer.
The RB's are supposed to be much stiffer. Like more than 150% as I recall in some posts I've read.
There also are the Agency Power and Tanabe sways and MS sways...
The RB's are supposed to be much stiffer. Like more than 150% as I recall in some posts I've read.
There also are the Agency Power and Tanabe sways and MS sways...
02-28-2006, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Spin9k
...send a PM w/this advice a few days ago...did you get it? Now you want more opinions ?
opinions ?
02-28-2006, 09:27 PM
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I have the RBs w/ stock springs, and the only other setup I've driven is stock and stock. I can say that adding just the sways made a HUGE difference, and I'm very, very pleased.
I don't know if stiffer would be better...I think the tradeoff as you go stiffer is jittery over imperfect roads perhaps? I haven't noticed any problems, but I don't exactly go off-roading in the car. I see no point in going LESS stiff however, unless you have springs that are much stiffer than stock (I believe this is what the Mazdaspeed suspension does...the sways are not nearly as stiff as RB, but their springs are much higher rate than stock, whereas the RB springs are only about 20% higher...this is all from reading though, so take it with a few grains).
jds
I don't know if stiffer would be better...I think the tradeoff as you go stiffer is jittery over imperfect roads perhaps? I haven't noticed any problems, but I don't exactly go off-roading in the car. I see no point in going LESS stiff however, unless you have springs that are much stiffer than stock (I believe this is what the Mazdaspeed suspension does...the sways are not nearly as stiff as RB, but their springs are much higher rate than stock, whereas the RB springs are only about 20% higher...this is all from reading though, so take it with a few grains).
jds
03-12-2006, 11:29 PM
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Just an innocent bystander with the same question, as to which sway bars to get. I have experienced hotchki sways in a celica that I own, and love the stiffness and now I am leaning toward thinking that stiffer is generally better for holding the road.
But, I notice differing opinions:
Red Devil states that RB's are stiffer than whiteline's bars
Spin9K seems to write that whiteline's are stiffer because they are solid.
Any thoughts?
But, I notice differing opinions:
Red Devil states that RB's are stiffer than whiteline's bars
Spin9K seems to write that whiteline's are stiffer because they are solid.
Any thoughts?
03-13-2006, 07:09 AM
#11
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Originally Posted by drafter1
Red Devil states that RB's are stiffer than whiteline's bars
Spin9K seems to write that whiteline's are stiffer because they are solid.
Any thoughts?
Spin9K seems to write that whiteline's are stiffer because they are solid.
Any thoughts?
Short of that DPE says the following on WLs, but I have no idea about RB bars...maybe ask them for specs.
Originally Posted by DPE
27mm standard front bar - $115 - These bars actually measure 27.5mm vs. the 26.5mm of the OEM bars, but the real increase in stiffness comes from them being solid vs. hollow. Based on data provided by Whiteline, we calculate this bar to be approximately 59% stiffer than OEM.
27mm adjustable front bar - $150 - These bars also measure 27.5mm, and benefit from two mounting holes on each side that allow you do adjust the stiffness of the bar. This bar can either be approximately 54% stiffer than OEM, or 64% stiffer depending on which mounting holes are used. A nice, simple way to fine-tune chassis balance to suit your driving style or to better match other suspension modifications.
18mm standard rear bar - $115 - These bars are exactly 2mm thicker than OEM, and are also solid. This lends an increase in stiffness of approximately 87%, which really helps keep the rear end under control under extreme circumstances. And if you're like me, you want your rear end under control in extreme circumstances!
18mm adjustable rear bar - $150 - These bars are also exactly 2mm thicker than OEM, and of course are solid. With a choice of two mounting holes on each side, you can set this bar to be either 79% stiffer than OEM or 91% stiffer. Once again, handy to be able to fine-tune chassis balance.
All percentages above are approximate and based on our calculations, which are based on data that Whiteline provided on the OEM bars.
27mm adjustable front bar - $150 - These bars also measure 27.5mm, and benefit from two mounting holes on each side that allow you do adjust the stiffness of the bar. This bar can either be approximately 54% stiffer than OEM, or 64% stiffer depending on which mounting holes are used. A nice, simple way to fine-tune chassis balance to suit your driving style or to better match other suspension modifications.
18mm standard rear bar - $115 - These bars are exactly 2mm thicker than OEM, and are also solid. This lends an increase in stiffness of approximately 87%, which really helps keep the rear end under control under extreme circumstances. And if you're like me, you want your rear end under control in extreme circumstances!
18mm adjustable rear bar - $150 - These bars are also exactly 2mm thicker than OEM, and of course are solid. With a choice of two mounting holes on each side, you can set this bar to be either 79% stiffer than OEM or 91% stiffer. Once again, handy to be able to fine-tune chassis balance.
All percentages above are approximate and based on our calculations, which are based on data that Whiteline provided on the OEM bars.
03-13-2006, 08:35 AM
#13
Momentum Keeps Me Going
It's a black art without the thickness of the hollow tubes used, which I don't have (the OD of the WLs is above). With that the math is obvious, sort of, as long as one knows the metallurgical formulation used for each bar's steel is the same. If not, well there you go again.....
03-13-2006, 08:39 AM
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The RB's definitely have a larger outside diameter, which is why I believe they are stiffer than the Whiteline bars. The OEM bushings and brackets will fit over the Whiteline bars, for the RB's apparently you need larger onees. Diameter of the Whiteline bars are listed above in Spin's post.
I think Spin and I are saying the same thing, just in a different way.
I think Spin and I are saying the same thing, just in a different way.
03-13-2006, 09:01 AM
#16
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Here's a link w/all the formula required...someone that has the time and inclination could get the specs from RB for theirs, then tell us the answer....any takers?
Hollow versus Solid Swaybars
Hollow versus Solid Swaybars
Last edited by Spin9k; 03-13-2006 at 09:06 AM.
03-13-2006, 09:17 AM
#17
I edited my above post, but you guys answered so quick you didn't see it. 
The RB front uses a 32 mm OD, with a .1875 inch wall. Based on that, I'm comfortable saying the RBs are significantly stiffer than the WLs. Exactly how much stiffer I won't say because the arm length comes into play, so to make a real comparison you need to know that as well as the OD x ID information.
But, just looking at the cross section data, it's clear the RB is significantly stiffer than the WLs. Whether or not that's a good thing is an individual decision.
The RB front uses a 32 mm OD, with a .1875 inch wall. Based on that, I'm comfortable saying the RBs are significantly stiffer than the WLs. Exactly how much stiffer I won't say because the arm length comes into play, so to make a real comparison you need to know that as well as the OD x ID information.
But, just looking at the cross section data, it's clear the RB is significantly stiffer than the WLs. Whether or not that's a good thing is an individual decision.
03-14-2006, 03:09 AM
#20
just to throw a spanner in the works. has anyone else noticed how the Japanese tuner's are neglecting swaybars from there line-up? autoexe and mazdaspeed seem like the only ones making them. the others it seems like they are relying on springs and shocks to control weight transfer. Even companies that tune with other brands parts, like LEG motor, don't seem to use them.
03-14-2006, 10:04 AM
#21
Originally Posted by rotarenvy
just to throw a spanner in the works. has anyone else noticed how the Japanese tuner's are neglecting swaybars from there line-up? autoexe and mazdaspeed seem like the only ones making them. the others it seems like they are relying on springs and shocks to control weight transfer. Even companies that tune with other brands parts, like LEG motor, don't seem to use them.
Another reason is that there is much more profit in a set of $2000 coilovers than a set of $400 sway bars.
Personally, after having the suspension in my Miata tuned with a diverse combination of sway bars, dampers, and coilovers, I'm a big believer in starting with dampers and/or coilovers, then deciding if you want to upgrade the sways after the springs & shocks are taken care of. But, since sways are cheap and easy to install, they tend to be the first mod most people do to the suspension.
03-14-2006, 11:00 AM
#23
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To the experts out there, I've read that the stock sway bars is not that much different (as far as stiffness) when compared to Mazdaspeed..would it be better to invest in just the Mazdaspeed shocks/springs vs stock? Basically, you keep the stock sway bar, but swap out the shocks/springs with Mazdaspeed. Any thoughts? Anybody did this? Difference in handling, comfort, noise, etc?
03-14-2006, 11:06 AM
#24
The cool thing about the MS setup is that all pieces are designed to work together. If I went with the MS setup, I'd probably get springs, shocks, and bars at once. I'm sure you can use them piecemeal, but MS sure seems to know what they are doing when it comes to suspension tuning.
The important question here is how the bias is changed, stock bars vs. MS bars. By going with OEM bars, you may end up with a car that either understeers or oversteers more than MS had intended.
But, as you say, it would be interesting to hear from someone who has done this.
The important question here is how the bias is changed, stock bars vs. MS bars. By going with OEM bars, you may end up with a car that either understeers or oversteers more than MS had intended.
But, as you say, it would be interesting to hear from someone who has done this.
03-14-2006, 11:18 AM
#25
a pure racing setup tends to go with overly stiff springs and light bars, so there's no need to upgrade the OE bars if the spring rates are very high
a pure street setup tends to go with overly stiff bars and light sprinds, so change the bars only
or somewhere inbetween, change them both in a relative fashion
RB --> soft springs & stiffer bars
MS --> soft bars and stiffer springs
you could go with the RB bars only with the OE springs/shocks or the MS springs/shocks with the OE bars, it will all boil down to how far you want to push the envelope
neither in any configuration will be as smooth riding as OE nor have the performance of full racing shocks & springs, it all boils down to what your intention is and what you're willing to give up in exchange for what you receive
a pure street setup tends to go with overly stiff bars and light sprinds, so change the bars only
or somewhere inbetween, change them both in a relative fashion
RB --> soft springs & stiffer bars
MS --> soft bars and stiffer springs
you could go with the RB bars only with the OE springs/shocks or the MS springs/shocks with the OE bars, it will all boil down to how far you want to push the envelope
neither in any configuration will be as smooth riding as OE nor have the performance of full racing shocks & springs, it all boils down to what your intention is and what you're willing to give up in exchange for what you receive
Last edited by TeamRX8; 03-14-2006 at 11:26 AM.