Astral

Reinstalled stock springs this past weekend for the winter, so I don't plow as much snow. Everything went fine (put the correct stock springs on the front and rear, checked using fit, dot color, and coil thickness difference).

Though the rear sits way too low. At least .5", if not 1" lower than stock. The Koni Sport shock alone can't be responsible for this, can it?

I jacked the rear of the car up, things look OK underneath--spring is seated well into the perch.

Dealer's alignment rack read the rear at -3 degrees camber, due to how low the rear was.

Here's a photo of the rear left shock/spring:



The only thing I just noticed is that the very bottom of the spring is facing away from the wheel, not into it (like in this photo of another install).

I don't know whether that orientation makes any difference. Any opinions?

DOMINION

Wow. I dont know. I have a stock set up right now. You might want to PM "UnknowenautoXer" or what ever his name is. You can find him in the "racing section". See if he can help a member out.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

did you take all the control arm bolts loose and retighten them after the car was set on the new springs?

The same thing will happen with raising a car as lowering it; the control arms bushings have to be reset to the new ride height or else they'll preload the springs to try and maintain the old ride height

the shocks themselves are not responsible for this

Astral

which control arms in the rear would be responsible for this? (which #'s on this parts diagram? I haven't touched 6, 8, 7, and 10)

We did untighten the rear camber control cams (arm 9 in the diagramp), tightened them in the air and put the car down. If anything, that should've made it higher than normal... but that arm only controls camber, I don't see how it would affect the ride height.

staticlag

#7

I dont know how you could have taken the spring out without at least loosening #7

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

all of therm where they mount to the subframe/chassis

they can't be tightened until the car weight is on the springs and fully settled, this requires a new alignment so you might as well have them do it on the rack just prior

Astral

it's pretty easy actually. just disconnect the camber cam bolt and swing the arm out of the way (#9), and the assembly just swings out of the way.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

you have to loosen them ALL raising or lowering, either way without will cause complaince binding on all chassis/subframe side control arm bushings

DOMINION

The "control arm bushings" your talking about, Are they what I have to cut when I install my springs? Someone told me I have to cup some rubber thing or my car will be real bouncy???
Thanks,
-Gil

Juice

iTrader: (1)

No the rubber thing that will make your car bouncy is the bumpstop, when you take apart the shock assemblies you will see it. It basically keeps the suspension from completely bottoming out. Since you are lowering it, you cut it and it gives the shocks more travel before you hit it and bounce off of it. If you don't cut it then it will have less travel and bounce off alot.

Astral

OK, it seems that there are six possible bushings to loosen (#'s refer to this parts diagram):

#6 - Upper trailing link, subframe side (axle side seems to be a ball joint thing, so hopefully should not be affecting things)
#8 - Upper lateral link, subframe side
#9 - Lower lateral link, subframe side, (camber cam)
#7 - Lower trailing link, axle side
#7 - Lower trailing link, subframe side
#10 - Toe control link, subframe side (toe cam)

I loosened the first 4 out of 6 while the car was up in the air. I put the car down and drove out of the driveway and back. The rear end settled back to being too low (did not sit any higher), with "negative" fender clearance again.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get lower trailing link bolt, on the subframe side, loose. It's very hard to reach and my tools/breaker bar couldn't get in there (and neither could my electric impact wrench).

I also couldn't get the toe control cam lock bolt loose either.

I was hoping that at least getting 4 out of 6 may be enough, but looks like it had no effect.

Some pics. This photo shows the upper trailing and upper lateral link bolts, subframe side, that I was able to get loose:



This is with the car on the ground. Note that the compressed spring looks a little funny, not quite looking evenly compressed there. I am still wondering whether the shock perch orientation is making any kind of difference here.

Next photo shows the other two bolts I got loose:



The red arrows are the two bolts that gave me trouble. The worst is the #7 lower trailing link subframe side bolt, shown in upper left in this next photo: (it's the worst just because it's particularly difficult to get at with the tools I have)



(the other arrow points at the toe control cam)

Maybe some PB Blaster is in order to loosen those things.

mkl22

maybe you should measure the spring seat from the end of the shock for the koni and compare it to the stock shocks. I have used koni on other cars before and sometimes they do sit slightly lower. This can be adjusted by creating another groove on the shock barrel higher up and preloading the stock spring a bit more.

Astral

I also wonder whether the rear springs are just broken (I don't know how that would be possible, both at the same time, and they were fine when I took them off).

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

There's nothing wrong with the Koni perch location. They were built to be Stock class legal, which doesn't allow relocating this part from OE.

oldcarguy85

sorry to dig up an old thread, but did u ever resolve this? i have the exact same issue.

Astral

Changed to stiffer Tein H-tech springs. With stock springs and the low gas pressure of the Konis, this is simply what you get. It did help a little to loosen all the bushings and tighten while the car is on the ground, but it was a very small change. With the Tein H-techs lowering the front a bunch and having a slightly stiffer rear, the car looked decently balanced. Changing rear springs didn't do anything, they were not broken.

RK

iTrader: (1)

Astral did you make sure you had them preloaded?

That's been the issue with a lot of people who put Koni's on who had to keep stock springs for AutoX. Solution was to 'preload' where you put pressure with a jack on the springs while the car's up in the air and the bolts are loose. With pressure on you then tighten it up.

I'd have him try that before getting new springs though he should get them eventually since the Koni's are going to be too rough on the OEMs.

oldcarguy85

i actually am running B stock Autocross events, thats why i need to keep the stock springs.

RK

iTrader: (1)

So did you preload?

Astral

Yes. If you peruse the thread, you will notice plenty of discussion about this. The car was even tightened on the ground. The thing is that the problem that I experienced was the opposite of what people get when they don't preload, where the suspension sits too high. My suspension sat too low, it really was "preloaded" the other way. In fact, at some point I tried tightening everything in the air to get it to sit higher (and it did), but then you could really feel the bushings bitchin' at ya, the ride was terrible and it was slowly settling over time anyways. I fixed that experiment after a week.

hufflepuff

what if the oem springs were swapped front/rear?