Questions about suspension parts
12-19-2011, 01:19 PM
#1
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Questions about suspension parts
Soooo I have been doing my reading trying to learn about suspensions and all the fun parts that go with it, but have a few questions as I am very lost on what I should be looking to purchase, and what is a waste of money...
Strut Tower Bars? Read a several years old post saying tower bars are a waste of money for our cars because it is already very ridgid? I am used to this being considered a big part of improving stiffness, but it could me just following blindly what other people do...
Sway Bar and Lower Arm Bar? From what I read a sway bar is a must, but what about the Lower Arm bar?
Like several people here I am upgrading with my tax return, and will be getting upgraded coilovers, but wanted to do these other parts at the same time as well, but being a noob and trying to learn, some guideance would be appreciated!
Strut Tower Bars? Read a several years old post saying tower bars are a waste of money for our cars because it is already very ridgid? I am used to this being considered a big part of improving stiffness, but it could me just following blindly what other people do...
Sway Bar and Lower Arm Bar? From what I read a sway bar is a must, but what about the Lower Arm bar?
Like several people here I am upgrading with my tax return, and will be getting upgraded coilovers, but wanted to do these other parts at the same time as well, but being a noob and trying to learn, some guideance would be appreciated!
12-19-2011, 01:48 PM
#2
Strut bars on non MacPherson designs only marginally help. Having them last on the list is not a bad idea, and for race track use only. Most autocrossers don't use them at all.
Sway bars may help instead, again it really depends on your use.
Since you mentioned coilovers... that's probably the most important part to discuss for now. What's your budget? Most cheap coilovers are actually downgrades from stock.
Sway bars may help instead, again it really depends on your use.
Since you mentioned coilovers... that's probably the most important part to discuss for now. What's your budget? Most cheap coilovers are actually downgrades from stock.
12-19-2011, 02:51 PM
#3
Momentum Keeps Me Going
The stock strut bar was deemed necessary because the front crossmember needed to have a bend in it and so front end rigidity was compromised. The stock brace overcame this deficit from the designers point of view. Is a beefier, stronger brace better, and under what conditions are any improvements seen?? Good questions, but only with acecdotal evidence as to improvements. Based on my own experience, it's a noticeable change under track conditions, street not so much.
A beefier sway bar set, adjustable at both ends of the car for stiffness, might be a good suspension improvement for several reasons. It's relatively cheap, it makes a large noticeable difference on street and track, and importantly gives you experience in tuning the suspension for under/oversteer, if you are so inclinded.
Coilovers are a good place to start if you are flush with money from the start. The problem is matching your needs and the coilovers as there are so many to choose from. Again, their adjustable nature helps, but good results are harder to insure, other than just being harder riding, because it is such a change to the suspension setup and is affected by so many connected variables like alignment, tires, correct initial setup and adjustment, corner balancing, etc.
Some people correctly start with coilovers, but most I would guess do the sways first and go from there. It all depends on the use intended.
A beefier sway bar set, adjustable at both ends of the car for stiffness, might be a good suspension improvement for several reasons. It's relatively cheap, it makes a large noticeable difference on street and track, and importantly gives you experience in tuning the suspension for under/oversteer, if you are so inclinded.
Coilovers are a good place to start if you are flush with money from the start. The problem is matching your needs and the coilovers as there are so many to choose from. Again, their adjustable nature helps, but good results are harder to insure, other than just being harder riding, because it is such a change to the suspension setup and is affected by so many connected variables like alignment, tires, correct initial setup and adjustment, corner balancing, etc.
Some people correctly start with coilovers, but most I would guess do the sways first and go from there. It all depends on the use intended.
12-19-2011, 04:44 PM
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Was thinking coilovers first, and yeah there are a lot of options to choose from... if we are talking about coilovers alone then I am thinking about $1500 budget, up to 2000 if I had to, but I have seen many recommended ones on this forum in the 1200-1500 range.
I am mostly a daily driver, about 18 miles each way, but want to get into some Auto X, not hardcore, but a handful of summer races this year at least
I am mostly a daily driver, about 18 miles each way, but want to get into some Auto X, not hardcore, but a handful of summer races this year at least
12-20-2011, 12:31 AM
#5
The stock strut bar was deemed necessary because the front crossmember needed to have a bend in it and so front end rigidity was compromised. The stock brace overcame this deficit from the designers point of view. Is a beefier, stronger brace better, and under what conditions are any improvements seen?? Good questions, but only with acecdotal evidence as to improvements. Based on my own experience, it's a noticeable change under track conditions, street not so much.
Source for this statement?
Not to mention that I laugh about not even running the OE strut bar ...
I would really enjoy gathering up a few people like yourself and do a number of blind driving tests where you don't know what if any strut bar is installed.
12-20-2011, 07:28 AM
#6
Momentum Keeps Me Going
There's a reason for everything, I'm surprised you weren't aware
"Vehicle dynamics are dependent on the chassis' initial reaction to input forces," Oda instructs. "If the body gives, it immediately and adversely affects body control and damping characteristics."
"Oda and his team encountered a snag in the upper transverse member." Practical considerations of fitting battery and airbox in that area caused front-end stiffness to suffer. "Therefore, the tranverse member's ends are bent downward, reducing its effectiveness as a brace. So a tubular rod tying the tops of the spring/shock absorber towers together is standard on all RX-8 models to increase front-end stiffness. Oda's crusade (for stiffness) did not end yet ... "
Yamaguchi really is an entertaining read Team, I'd highly recommend it .
Last edited by Spin9k; 12-20-2011 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Meds kicked in
12-20-2011, 07:32 AM
#7
pg 124, 125, RX-8, Yamaguchi.
I laugh about people like yourself who profess superior knowledge about the RX-8, but who fail to incorperate the basic design history of the car's development into their personal fantasies they espouse as fact.
Here, I'll help you,
"Vehicle dynamics are dependent on the chassis' initial reaction to input forces," Oda instructs. "If the body gives, it immediately and adversely affects body control and damping characteristics."
"Oda and his team encountered a snag in the upper transverse member." Practical considerations of fitting battery and airbox in that area caused front-end stiffness to suffer. "Therefore, the tranverse member's ends are bent downward, reducing its effectiveness as a brace. So a tubular rod tying the tops of the spring/shock absorber towers together is standard on all RX-8 models to increase front-end stiffness. Oda's crusade (for stiffness) did not end yet ... "
Yamaguchi really is an entertaining read Team, I'd highly recommend
I laugh about people like yourself who profess superior knowledge about the RX-8, but who fail to incorperate the basic design history of the car's development into their personal fantasies they espouse as fact.
Here, I'll help you,
"Vehicle dynamics are dependent on the chassis' initial reaction to input forces," Oda instructs. "If the body gives, it immediately and adversely affects body control and damping characteristics."
"Oda and his team encountered a snag in the upper transverse member." Practical considerations of fitting battery and airbox in that area caused front-end stiffness to suffer. "Therefore, the tranverse member's ends are bent downward, reducing its effectiveness as a brace. So a tubular rod tying the tops of the spring/shock absorber towers together is standard on all RX-8 models to increase front-end stiffness. Oda's crusade (for stiffness) did not end yet ... "
Yamaguchi really is an entertaining read Team, I'd highly recommend
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