Rob Tomlin

^ I think it would understeer.

Anyway, I placed my order today for the SSR Professor's. However, there was a change from the prior sizing that I was quoted with regard to the offset.

Instead of the offset being 45, it will be 37 (other sizes remain: 18x8.0 in front with 225 tires, 18x9.0 back with 245's). Will this still work? I was told that it would, but I obviously want to be certain.

Somebody please tell me this will work!

rotarenvy

37+ front and rear should work from what I have researched but the rear fenders will need minor bodywork.

Rob Tomlin

That's not really what I wanted to hear.

I don't want to have to worry about doing ANY body work, even if minor.

rotarenvy

you might not have to if your not lowered; so cross your fingers

Rob Tomlin

Well, I want to lower too eventually.

I will just call them back to change the offsets. There should be plenty of time since I just placed the order 3 hours ago!

AlexCisneros

I see a few things that concern me about the topics here. First of all, the person that created the thread is trying to justify a purchase by saying it is more racey. and that it feels better.

The set up you described would look very nice. It would be a popular look as many D1 racers run staggered, and several race cars run staggered. It is not, however, racey. Feel good in the fact that you will have a very nice looking car.

As to some people stating their staggered set up feels better, it does . There is a reason the car manufacturers dial understeer into their cars. It gives a sense of security and is safer for the average driver. You feel like you can be at the limit. You are actually not anywhere near it. Even if "you drive fast..."

Understeer is dialed into race cars that don't turn much. It's great on a skid pad and on sweepers. You find it on NASCAR and drifters because in drifting on a pro level it is the front tires that actually slide along. These cars use torque oversteer (and other oversteer inducing maneuvers ) to turn the car and then the power to push the front wheels at their extreme slip angles and beyond. And on the NASCAR, well you turn left... then left then left two more times through sweepers.

A road racer needs the car to oversteer to be able to rotate the car from one turn to the next, and an autocrosser needs even more since the next turn usually comes sooner than any of the above racing. In fact an autocrosser turns 10 more times than an F1 driver.

The best race setup is as neutral as possible and then depending on driver style and track format, a bit of oversteer or a bit of understeer. That little bit should be done through suspension tuning first (in a perfect world). If you will rarely see a track or even autoX, then make it look nice. After all it is your car, and even if Schumacher hates the way it handles when is he really going to drive it , you need to enjoy it.

If you do plan on doing some track events and autoXing the car, and feel that handling is an important factor, learn to drive first before you spend money on a black art. if you have to get the new tires, stay with the same size front and rear and try to maximize the grip (in other words wider is better).

Now before you flame me because you think you are an above average driver know this... I am not an expert driver, neither is PUR or even TPryor. Unless you are Sterling Moss with that many years experience, you still have more to learn.

Alex

PS. By now you have read this and noticed that in my garage I run staggered 17" rims I can assure you they weigh less than 18" tires of the same size, are barely off the OEM overall diameter, and could care less on how they look. In fact, I think the same rim in black would have looked nicer but they were back ordered in Japan and I couldn't wait.

Why am I running staggered and telling people to run same size? Because I am on a budget and have been driving AWD's competitively for 11years. And they have taught me some reeeealy bad habits. I like a bit of understeer . The car has too much atm, and I knew that it would. I have set up my alignment to effectively reduce the amount of traction in the rear. For now. Why? I needed new tires and knew I would run 17" rims. I also know that I will be lowering the car since I am not in a stock class. I am not sure that a 275 will fit in the front with my offset and a lower ride height. That is why there is a 245 in it's place (I can't afford to be wrong). The smaller rim width in the front allows a lower slip angle with the 245 tire to compensate with the 275 in the rear and if the 275 does fit once the car is lowered the smaller rim will have a larger slip angle (sorry guys, it's those bad habits I've developed) than the rear with the same size tire. Once my car is lowered and I need new tires again (and I can afford them), I will figure out a way to cram the 275 in there

PUR NRG

You realize you can fit 245's on the OEM 18x8 wheels right? If all you want is a staggered look you don't even need to change wheels. Just stick 225's up front and 245's (or even 265's) in back.

What counting method are you using? Total in an event or total in one lap? Either way I think that 10x is an exaggeration. I'm not even sure if the absolute time between turns is that different. Them F1 drivers sure are fast. But yes, of all road events us mere mortals compete in autocross requires the quickest transition times.

Depends on how you define expert right? :D Basic physics (and hey, physics has a lot to do with driving right?) shows that there are no fixed frames of reference and everything is measured relative to something else. At times I feel like the one-eyed man saying, "Look! Color!" Then someone else comes along and says, "Yes, that Pantone 16-1359 Orange Peel looks nice."
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Lovely Wendie

Rob Tomlin

Yes, I know that.

Obviously I want more than just the staggered "look". I want the new SSR Professor wheels with a staggered look.

crossbow

Since the topic of "driver training" has come up, I thought I'd throw out a few random comments.

Learning to drive properly on a modless car really helps to "hammer in" the effect various mods have on the car. Its really hard to comprehend this until you race against someone with FAR less mods then you on their car (sometimes even completely stock) and they beat your time by multiple seconds...even though your car puts out 80 more whp, and is suspension tweaked all to hell.

The best realization over the whole mods vs skill scenario is to attend a SCCA event, make some friends, and possible allow a national champion to take a run in your car while you watch. You'll routinely see someone shave off a significant amount of time off your run, even if they've never driven the car before.

Now if your interested in just being competitive, mod the car the way you want, THEN take a competitive class. After the class, don't touch the car (modwise). After you've gone through good 6-12 hours of training with a particular setup, any changes will really throw you off.

I know this previous paragraph is somewhat contradictory to the inital, but I still think one should train with no mods first, then later take a more advanced class after you've figured out what mods to run. Generally after a driver training event, all the mods start changing...next thing you know the viper guys are trying everything possible to fit 17's on their car .

PUR NRG

Again, you could have four 18x8 SSR wheels and put different size tires on them. Probably a slight savings in wheel cost and also gives you the option of a non-staggered setup later on if you so chose.
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Ferrari 156 f1 specifications

Rob Tomlin

Yes, I see what you are saying.

But you still have a different look with staggered wheels, right? Won't the 9 inchers in the back have a slightly deeper dish than the 8's in the front?

PUR NRG

Since I have no idea what the SSR Professors look like I can't really say. Probably, but you're looking at a difference of maybe half an inch or so. Your call whether that's important enough to you.
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Ipad Accessories

Rob Tomlin

You nailed it. Exactly half an inch.

And you did make me reconsider my choice.

As a result, I changed my order this morning. I will be running 18x8.5 with a +43 offset at all four corners. I think this is a better setup overall. This will keep the handling more neutral compared to going with a staggered setup, and will allow me to rotate the tires.

I will probably put the stock Bridgestone 225 tires on these wheels. Once those have been worn out, I will go with either 235 or 245 tires.

Thanks for the comments, they helped.

PUR NRG

No prob. I have 18x8.5 SSR Competitions on my car and 245s fit easily. Once they wear out I plan to try 265s on all four.
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Fix Ps3

AlexCisneros

ok, ok, I exaggerated... :p

On the last course design I made (which evidently was cancelled due to hurricane Jean) there were 51 key cones. Since It was at the HMS parking lot, I'll use HMS as an example. HMS has 14 turns (11 if you use the Grand-Am track like Speedsource recently ran). So an autocrosser turns a bit more than 3 times as much as a Grand-Am cup car in this instance.

:D

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Mazda chose this setup for their supercharged 8: 245/35/19's on the front & 275/30/19's on the back. So, is this the best setup for an estimated 275 hp & 200 lb.-ft. of torque that they are claiming the supercharger is given them?

Gord96BRG

Only if you install the same springs, shocks, and anti-sway bars that the MazdaSpeed RX-8 uses as well! With the stock suspension or a suspension that isn't specifically tuned for those tire sizes - no, it would not be the best setup for optimal handling.

Regards,
Gordon

Fanman

On my previous car I had 225's up front, and 265's stock, later I switched to 285's in the back, and did notice slight increase in traction off the line, but more understeer in the corners. If I go FI (Speed Force Racing or Greddy) I would probably do something similar to what Nemesis pointed out above (for the MS RX8). If I stay with minor mods (40 whp and under) I will probably just keep my stock tires and throw on some 245/40/18's.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Well, I just happen to have the MS Springs, Shocks, and Sway Bars. I'm getting the strut bars next month, so I might do this staggered setup one day next year when I get FI. Right now, I will most likely go with 245/40/18 on all four corners as Fanman said.

PUR NRG

Keep in mind that just because a manufacturer chose a particular setup does not mean it's optimum.

Exhibit 1: Honda Europe has different OEM alignments for the S2000 compared to NA. Europe's numbers were derived from several days of track testing but for whatever reason they chose not to recommend it here.

Exhibit 2: My BMW 540i came with 17x8 wheels in front and 17x9 in rear. I promptly switched to 18x8.5 all around and still have understeer in some turns.

Random hypothesis: Mazda may have decided that increased HP could tempt people to drive over their heads and dialed in more understeer as a safety reason. Or they could have gone that route to further differentiate from standard for marketing purposes. Or it may actually be better performance-wise. I still doubt the latter though.
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Bdsm gay

cortc

If you want to run power above 250rwhp and maintain good overall steering feel and response, you will have to run staggered... That is why just about every BMW. Mercedes, Porsche etc. with any power runs staggered... It will be faster and have higher cornering limits than a car running a stock setup...



The main reason manufactures run the same size front to rear is to allow the masses to rotate tires...



Anything wider than a 245 in front will really mess with the steering, 225-235 is the most you should run up front and 245-275 the max you should run in the rear using the best rim size to accommodate the respective tire size...



The best tools to dial in the suspension once you set up the right shocks and damping is sway-bars, bushings and tire pressures...

PUR NRG

Absolutely untrue. My BMW as it came from the factory had pronounced understeer. Switching to smaller tires in the rear reduced but didn't eliminate the problem. The fastest 5-series autocrosser in my region (Steve Albrecht) did the same thing for the same reason.

PS. Your color choice is almost impossible to read against the standard white background. You may want to consider changing it.
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Lovely Wendie

Sputnik

No, that is not why those companies do that. Different cars have different marketing and designs. For example, the rear-engined Porsche (even the mid-engined Boxster) is rear weight biased, so in that case, you do need staggered wheel sizes to balance out the handling.

---jps

MrWigggles

It is just not that big of a deal one way or another.

I do notice a difference with a staggered set-up but it isn't much. I really feel the handling is better. It doesn't feel like any additional understeer.

But even IF the handling is actually slightly worse and some sort of placebo effect makes me think it is better, 0-60 is better and the looks simply kick ***.

And you can always fine tune with PSI's if you want dive into the minutia.

-Mr. Wigggles

cortc

It is done for many reasons and it is true, to put the extra power down you will need more tire out back... Balance the handling andnthe wider tires and about 350hp will be faster than the same RX8 with smaller non-staggered rubber...