speeddemon32

and that does make sence. I am all for asking questions. but some of those were getting crazy. (maybe not all yours, there were a few people asking questions)

but when I am told there is more then 4 inches of travel... yeah I know that. do you really want me to tell you that the part of the spring your not using IS ALSO 180 or 100 pounds? its not going to change. besides, I have to go past the first part of the spring jsut to test the rest... trust me, there were no mirical rates down low either. it really was pretty close. hell one of the springs even started to fall of towrds the end as you can see in my results. instead of getting stronger it got weaker. as "progressive" as they are, they are really pretty linear.

even if you wanted to throw a margin of error in there, what do you think it would be? 10%? (which would be high)... so that would mean the 180 pound spring is really 198 on a good day.

again, I guess my biggest problem with everything is whaen I was being questioned as to how I cam up with my numbers on the Mazdaspeed springs and the Vogland springs, when I was not questioned how the other 4 springs came back just as they were supposed to. like I knew how to test those, but not the others... as if they are different.

Make sence?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

where are these "as you can see in my results" located

LionZoo

Very simply, I asked you if there were only 4 inches of travel in the spring and you said yes. Perhaps what you meant was that there were 4 inches of compressed travel or something else, but as it stands I made my calculations and assumed 4-5 inches of spring travel and that did not turn out too well. Of course I'm going to back your assertions with calculations, especially for something that was being disputed; in order to have a good point empirical observations need to be confirmed with theoretical calculations and vice versa or else something is wrong. I make no apologies for my methods.

CosmosMpower

Blah blah blah just go drive it and see if you like it. I can assure you they're way stiffer than stock and so can many local RX-8 autocrossers of a national caliber. My car has almost no body roll/brake dive and transitions faster compared to B-stock cars with stock springs and the same Konis on thes same settings.

kwescott

ok, I do have to respond to this......I would have to disagree. I think the MS springs are much the same as stock with reguards to body roll and transitioning. While the MS struts are stiffer, overall, I am very dissapointed with the MS setup when I have driven other cars...namely those in B-stock who have Koni struts (and stock springs) .

I would think that the best solution for Lionzoo would be to get a set of Koni Yellows. This would offer him the transition needs he desires, as well as maintaining the ride height he wants to maintain.

Astral

RacingBeat would be the best choice then (rather than keeping stock). 20% spring rate increase with a half-inch travel compromise.

kwescott

Racing Beat and Koni's...stock and Koni's.....which ever, the main improvement is going to come through on the strut, not the spring.

speeddemon32

... are you seriouse?

speeddemon32

ok fine, you win..... get the Mazdaspeeds.

speeddemon32

look more proof Mazdaspeeds are stiffer....

LionZoo

Didn't I say I tend to agree with you on your Mazdaspeed rates? I'm just giving the reason for why I gave you such a hard time in asking all those questions.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

yes, I saw general rates posted but never saw graphs or rates vs compression distance as implied in your reply

speeddemon32

ok.

speeddemon32

ok

savedsol

It's been determined LionZoo just wants to take corners quickly. Maybe he should just get the RS*R Titanium springs. Could we get more info on the alloy composition of each spring to determine elasticity? How about ambient temp?

Maybe we can discuss whose ***** has a higher spring rate? This thread is awesome!

laythor

I drove an 8 with MS struts and spring yesterday. It looked good and drove great. Roads around the shop were pretty crappy and the car didnt balk at all. I'm seriously considering them now.

speeddemon32

savedsol

Not to add to the speculation, debate and skepticism but if people are asking who came up with the 280/190 number... I've got your answer...

http://www.mazda.co.jp/accessories/m...us02_list.html

kwescott

if you can pull 280/190 out of that link, you're the man. Could I get a Whopper as well

savedsol

With or without cheese?

http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh11..._conversio.htm
49.0 N/mm = 280 lbf/in
33.8 N/mm ~ 190 lbf/in

kwescott

without cheese...trying to lose some weight.

The Mazdaspeed tech informed me that the MS springs are made by Eibach.

devildog1679

How did you find that link? Good job, so for the first time we have #'s straight from Mazda. Now this will stir up more debate.

El Nerdo

Chicanes not many, Chicanos on the other hand, there are millions, and you would need a totally different suspension setup to maneuver those...

Aside from that, believing a butt-dyno over solid numbers in lame.

Butt-dyno philosphy is like this;

Black-Lung-Guy: When I feel nervous or stressed, cigarettes make me feel better. Therefore cigarettes are good for me.
Half brain human: But it's been proven that cigarettes cause cancer, doesn't that concern you?
Black-Lung-Guy: My dad smoked 2 packs a day since he was 15yrs old until he died.
Half brain human: How did he die?
Black-Lung-Guy: He got killed in a car accident on his way home from chemotherapy, but the cigarettes didn't kill him.

savedsol

I typed the part # into Google - it was the second link. Go figure.

kwescott

Didn't K/N post some rediculous HP gains on their first version intake for the RX8. Posted information is what I went on as well when I bought the MS suspension setup. I wouldn't have known differently, without the testing done by Speed. Do you recall the hostility and feeling of being taken advantage of, by all those who bought version 1 K/n Typhoon Intakes....

...or those that bought the RX8's when Mazda posted that the HP number was 271........

...point is, can't trust butt dynos....take posted numbers as marketing points to sell a product...tested products by an actual user....I have to give some credibility to.

Disclaimer: I buy Racing Beat products because their advertised gains have been replicated by private users. I bought MS based on butt dynos and posted numbers. Am I happy with both....sure. Would I be just as happy with different products....probably.

Why so ambivelent.....because I'm not a professional race car driver and I continue to learn with each vehicle I own what preferences I have.

I have learned with the RX8, that I will never place an aftermarket clutch or flywheel on a vehicle...and that pulley's seem to be worthless.