Bindon

Hey guys, thinking of picking up the HKS kit for my car.

I have my car lowered with the Tien S.Techs, but they are going to be problematic in the winter with my INGS.

The HKS is an awesome setup because I can SLAM it for the track, make it nice and hard, and then tune it back for street after.

Im just wondering if you can use them to raise the car above or equal to stock height. Basically looking for the best of both worlds, The lowered , great handling, and the functionality of being able to raise it up in the winter to save the front end.


Any one know?

EDIT:

I noticed that the Tien Flex EDSC are adjustable from in the cabin..... Can I adjust the RIDE HEIGHT from inside? or just adjust the stiffness of the ride??

takahashi

No EDFC is Electronic Damper Force Control - so you can only control damper rating only. So as most adjustable coilovers. When you adjust height of those - you need to realign the wheels, despite what the installer may tell you - it will be 0.5 degree out and you will feel it.

So the shock that have height adjustable are having air cushion in them. I have not seen one that rides well. Only saw in those pimp mobiles

Good luck.

Love Tein BTW - heard too much about HKS in the past - not sure about present HKS coilover though.

Genesis

Taka...are you going with the type Flex and EDFC? Funny comment about the pimp mobiles :D

takahashi

Not sure to be honest.

1) I have to move house first. My stupid garage (as in an angle coz of the steep driveway) will not allow me to lower my car. , but I am moving in Jan so I am saving up for Tein now.

2) Love to be able to adjust it on the dash. More incentive to play with setting on the road and on track. I am too lazy otherwise.

Tein Flex actually allows to change the spring rating (with diff set of springs). The front can choose from 6-9 k (standard is 7) and the rear can go from 4-5 (standard is 4).

You can actually custom made some titanium spring to lower the weight of Tein shock. I think they are heavy due to the spring being heavy.

In the meantime I am still doing research, both on the local, old JDM and the new JDM product. I am actually waiting to see a few report on the REVspeed mag and the new Cusco Zero on the 8 and their on dash thing. Tanabe has a simialr stuff as well. So I am still pretty much undecided.

Genesis

Taka, I'm in the same position, also undecided. I like the concept of EDFC, but I wonder how useful it would be after the optimum damper settings for my particular driving needs are set. I gather I'd never use it after that (?), but would be very helpful during the adjustment and fine tuning process. The hipermax OTOH doesn't have EDFC, but does have the rear adjustment control, so can manually adjust both front and rear with relative ease, just have to get out of the car

I'm looking for spring rates as you suggest...front around 7 and rear around 4. The hipermax is F8/R5 and the Flex is F9/R7 which are pretty much on par with each other and would fit my needs well. I don't think I need to go much firmer than that (i.e. Zeal or Aragosta) since I'm not driving up to Sepang every weekend.

But then again, MS are F5/R3.4 and people speak quite favourably about them, plus also much less ex....

Bindon

So if I get the HKS, and say, adjust the height 2-3 times a year, I have to get it re aligned by a shop everytime I do it?

takahashi

Most likely you do.

Genesis,

Spring rate is one thing but has to suit the damper you are using. The spring rate is not absolute. Although most of the time a 9k will feel firmer than 7k but not necessary. I think Flex is F 7k and R4k BTW

Also I think EDFC has a place, if you go to track a lot. There are presettings. Even if you don't go to track a lot. One setting for street with your Mrs or gf. one setting for you . Especially you just drop the passenger off and going for a fang. A push of a button

I will go for street, track 1 and track 2. :D

Genesis

Makes sense Taka....but how fast does the EDFC take to fully adjust to the new damper setting?

takahashi

From what is in my mate's Turbo MR2 and the GTR R34. The flex can go from full soft to full hard within 2 seconds. You need to be stationary for that though.

Bindon

So, taka, Im sitting with the S.Techs right now,

could I raise my car up above what it is now??

Mainly for winter.

But then ill slam it in the summer :D

Im definately considering the Tien's with the EDSC

lazi

wait bindon. i hope u know soft to hard doesnt mean "how high or low u want it" jus to make sure u knew. its convenient with the edfc. but its on ur preference on the spring rate and the ride on suspension. i have the hks hipermax rs. it rides great. i adjust the damping here in there. but not much. so gettin under the car sometimes is not a big deal. but look around and see what you'll like -

-Sam

takahashi

Bindon,

Although the stock system you can adjust toe, chamber and caster, which is pretty cool already, you cannot change the ride height.

So you need to swap to adj damper like Tein. Even so, you basically have to take the suspension out to change spring and it is safer to take it out to adjust height. So if you set the height of the car, it is pretty much it. Coz there is too much effort to do so

Bindon

Its good to know that I can adjust the coilovers to be higher them in sitting now.

Im gonna go with either the HKS hypermax II or the Tien flex, possibly with the EDSC.

Ill only adjust height 2 twice a year, so is the adjustment doable myself??
Is it an absolue MUST to have them off the car for height adjustment??

Ive heard that the height adjustment on the Hypermaxes is easy, maybe ill go with these then?

Hmm, if the hypermaxes are adjustable easily while on the car.... I wonder if I could make at attatchment to adjust ride height from the cabin... Would be a fun project to say the least.

And hey, if it works, I can sell it to all of you! :D

Thanks for your help so far

Bindon

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps I'm the only one a bit confused here (really), but let me lay this out as best I can.

With the stock suspension, you cannot adjust ride height (except by changing springs, or filling the car with large people).

With ANY 'coilover', you can adjust ride height. This would include Tein Basics and Flex, HKS Hipermax, Tanabes, etc.

You do NOT need to remove coilovers to adjust ride height. With Tein Flex you may need to remove them if you want to adjust ride height without changing spring preload, but you could also just adjust ride height using the lower spring seat (thereby changing preload) as you can on all coilovers. Understand that Tein Flex are a notch above the HKS, in the sense that they are fully adjustable for height and preload. The HKS are not. That said, sometimes more adjustment is a bad thing if you're not going to be messing with it all the time. It is not all that hard to make your car handle worse with coilovers than it does on the stock suspension.

The common way to adjust ride height on coilovers, by moving the lower spring seat up or down the threaded shock body, is very doable by anyone remotely handy with a wrench and a ruler. This is all you need to know for the HKS, the Tein Basics, and I believe all of the Tanabes. For the Flex, you can do it this way too, but you also can adjust height by spinning the lower shock attachment point on the threaded body. For this I think they'd have to come out, though I'm not certain on the RX-8.

Most coilovers can get you back to stock height or close to it. Some may even go a touch higher.

Agreed that you should do an alignment once you get them on, and again when you adjust ride height. But if you just have 2 or 3 'heights' you run at, simply mark the adjustment bolts/eccentrics at those heights, and count turns on the tie rods in front for toe. Take a little time to set up and a friendly alignment tech, but then every time after that you adjusted the height you could align it correctly yourself.

Once you see how ride height is adjusted, I'm guessing you'll abandon your plans to figure out a clever way to adjust ride height from the cockpit . And if you do figure it out, DPE wants to be your first distribution channel!

Shameless Plug: DPE sells coilovers from Tein, HKS and Tanabe for the RX-8. Not all are up on the site, but I'll try and remedy that very soon.

Bindon

Haha, Ill try and work some engineering magic.

Ive been thinking, and for the price of getting coilovers here to canada, I can pick up a used Greddy w/BOV, so honestly, ill spend the cash to get the stock springs back on for the winter, and save the 3 grand for the used turbo :-D

Personally, I think that cost benefit wise,

turbo for 3K > coilovers for 3K, but uh, yeah, maybe that just me :D

pcimino

Or invest a couple hundred to get your own alignment equipment. Not as fancy as what the shops use, but the tools work.

takahashi

couple of hundred may get you 2 sensors, and tonnes of your time. You need 4 sensors to get the camber, caster and toe right.

Bindon are you sure you want a used tubro? Why do you save those petty cash for the most important part that will directly affecting your engine. Personally, if you only drive on straight line, you better of goign for tubro. But if you ever drives in winding roads, you will find you will need suspension pretty soon.

I totally encourage you to try the new Carrera S with the sport suspension set up - THAT is the stock suspension that can handle 200kW at the wheel. Stock sus on the 8 is more than capable for 120kW at the wheel but not that much more. Upgrading the brake, and sus will give a better ride. Not to mention that problem arises from the tubro. You need meters, and see if you need radiator, better oil cooler, clutch and flywheel.

Sorry I am very track orientated when it comes to mod :p.

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Just a word on alignment, though now we're getting off topic, but it's quite easy to set and adjust toe in your own garage with a couple of jackstands and strings. And a good camber gauge can be had for about $200, so other than caster you can pretty easily do accurate alignments yourself.

Of course if you're just going to go get a turbo, adjusting alignment will probably become a bit less important . . .

Bindon

:-D


My handling right now is great, with the Tien S. Techs. It may not be near coilover quality, but its hella better then stock! Yeah, the turbo make much more of a difference for me right now, and I know that this used one is in good condition, so I shouldnt have any problems.

Thanks for the imput though, If I do decide to track the car alot more, maybe coilovers will be in the cards.

XDEEDUBBX

I wouldn't say that the tein flex are a notch above HKS. The tein flex are twin tube, vs. HKS' mono tube design. Here's a link explaining the advantages of a mono tube vs. a twin tube setup.

http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=2838

DPE

iTrader: (1)

True, mono-tube is a superior design in many ways, but how much it matters on a road car is something else entirely. I can assure you the increased adjustability associated with the Tein Flex is a far greater factor in suspension performance than whether it's a twin-tube or mono-tube damper. Additionally, the quality of the valving also has more to do with how well the damper works than whether it's a twin tube or mono-tube design. And I can't say anything about the valving quality of HKS vs. Tein, but I'd bet they are similar. Both are good companies with good reputations, and I've had good luck with all of their products thus far.

You couldn't go wrong with either coilover, but the Tein Flex will give you more options in suspension setup; whether you need them or not is up to you.

FE3P

FYI- HKS also offers a mono-tube coilover suspension with fully adjustable height and preload, it's called the Hipermax Performer http://www.hks-power.co.jp/ (click suspension then Performer for a pic). They have an application for the RX8 (80090-AZ002) and it can be special ordered through any Authorized HKS Dealer.

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Very cool. I didn't know you could actually get those over here. Why they don't import it as part of their North American lineup is a bit of a mystery.

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Just a note to anyone looking at HKS Hipermax II coilovers, I have a set in stock that I'm looking to get rid of for cheap. You can check it out in our forum here: https://www.rx8club.com/driven-performance-equipment-98/willing-sacrifice-set-hks-hipermax-ii-coilovers-73655/

Free shipping to the lower 48, and heavily discounted shipping to HI, AK, and Canada. Additionally, we now take Paypal; please contact us directly at sales@dpeweb.com if you are paying via Paypal.

XDEEDUBBX

nice deal you have there....