TexasKyle

SOO, I am sitting at a red light in the left turn lane, my buddy is sitting just to my right, (also a left turn lane). First ones at the light. Reach down, hit the DSC button, see the DSC is the only light that comes on the dash. All good. Light turns green, I get the drop on him, make the left accelerating at a good clip, boom, the back tires break loose.(at approx the apex of the turn) ( I expected a SOME tire spin) and then they keep right on burning. I about loose the damn car into the guard rail (concrete) after trying to save it and having to use his lane to do it. If I had been in his lane to start with, or if he had gotten a better launch it would have been UGLY....heres the question.,,,,,,,,
With the DSC off, but not the TCS shouldnt the TCS at least have TRIED to control the tire spin? Just wanting to know if I expected something above what the car will do, or if there is a problem with my TCS.

zoom44

i believe the problem is between the steering wheel and ... ahh hhhh never mind.

perhaps it did try to compensate. did you let off the throttle when it happened or did you keep your foot in it? did you try to shift at all?

Maolin34

It is a common misconception that traction control is all about preventing tire spin....this is true only to a certain extent, especially with late model sports cars. The traction control is triggered by several different things.

1) Throttle Position: If your not hard on the gas, and the tires slip TCS will assume its slick.
2) Traction/Engine Load: If the load on the engine is above a certain point, then you have sufficient traction, and the TCS will allow wheelspin to improve driver control of the attitude of the car.

DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) would have stopped your slide. DSC takes into account, wheelspin, lateral movement, throttle position, and steering angle to trigger the system.

Aside from not doing this on city streets where pavement conditions can very way too much...be prepared for the tail to step out when the DSC is off. TCS will only step in during straight line acceleration, and only when the limit of traction is low.

Omicron

Maolin, where are you gettng all this info? First the bit about TPMS sensors doing more than just sensing tire pressure, and now this. I'm just wondering where you are coming by this info. Are you a Mazda engineer?

Maolin34

Thanks Omicron....not an engineer, but love my car, and have always love cars and new technology. One thing that we have to remember with all technology, especially when we complain about DSC, and TCS stepping in when we dont want it to.....who do you think wrote the program. As long as a human makes the computer, the computer will always be imperfect...therefore the system will be also.

I do have an inside connection with FoMoCo, and I have had conversations with several engineers, and designers.

irish8

Ouch!! Got pix?

Good luck.
- Irish

RX Renesis

he didn't crash... he ALMOST crashed...

TexasKyle

Ok guys, I was NOT complaining about my car in any way. YES ZOOM, I know I am mostly to blame. I expected the TCS to do something it obviously didnt do, that is why I about wrecked. I anticipated the tire spin, but also expected the TCS to kick in and help out. THe fact that it didnt threw me for a loop, and I had to save the car when I wasnt expecting to HAVE to save the car. I wanted to hear y'alls input on wheather the TCS should have done something here. I can depend on alot of the guys on this board to give good answers, thats why I asked this question, told the truth about me almost wrecking, and risked the whole. "Its your own damn fault dumbass" comments that always seem to come. haha
I did get out of the throttle zoom, if I hadnt I would still be spinning. Thats the only way I could save it.

Chrisbert

Also be very careful in the rain. I had mine DSC off when the pavement was dry and drove into an area that it had rained (Atlanta weather). I made a left and forgot the DSC was off and looked pretty silly chasing the car into the right lane.

But, the good news is it is easy to catch it. Just lift, and twitch the wheel into the direction of the skid.

zoom44

Texas sorry - i was going to be a real smart *** then changed my mind and thought i should actually try to help but thought "ill be truthful and show my train of thought." i ve been in some tail outs spinning situs before and i know what its like. however i think lifting off the throttle can cause the spin to increase in some circumstances and that's why i asked this question. cant lifting cause you to over correct? dont you want to keep a little throttle in it? of course if there'sa tree or pole coming at you braking might be preferable. what would clutching have done.

TexasKyle

Its all good zoom, I am a smart *** from WAy back, so I know how hard it is to control the urge! haha. To be honest, there wasnt time or space to try much. That concrete guardrail was coming up QUICK, I didnt completely lift, just got out of it, steered into it, the tires FINALLY took hold and I straightened her up. With a big WHEW escaping my lips! haha. Not sure what would have been worse, crinkling the side of my car, or doing it in front my my buddy while showing my ***!
Like I said originally, the fact that the back tires broke loose like they did with the TCS on is what I was looking to clear up. Showing my *** is entirely my fault to begin with!

SHOWOFF

Ok I have owned my 8 for over a year and a half. Is there another system that operates in addition to the DSC?

I turn the DSC off every now and then. Is there another button I'm missing? Or do I just not have the TCS option? As far as I know when you hit the DSC button it turns everything off.

Am I wrong?

quaggy

TexasKyle,

My understanding is that a single press of the DSC button deactivates DSC and TCS. From then on, TCS is activated only if you brake hard enough to engage the ABS.

Silver_04

I have no skills or illusions about that fact, so I won't be insulted.

It appears to me that having a loss of traction mid corner, with a limited slip, upsets the car greatly. My last 3 cars were all front wheel drive. The rear wheel drive cars of my youth didn't have limited slip or posi. Is my assumption correct or has my ageing brain just become more fearfull of such sensations ?

zoom44

you have both. one short push of the button turnd the DSC off and puts the TCS to "sleep" but it will come back on in some situations. a long 8 seconds or so push and hold of the button turns both off completely and the only way to turn it back on is to turn the car off and then back on.

2ks2k

And the light on the dash will come on...

TexasKyle

ok, didnt know about the "sleep mode" of the TCS when the DSC is off. I do now though, thats why I posted this thread in the first place. Rather have a little embarrassment than to be uninformed.

zoom44

and i might have written that backwards maybe its tcs goes off and the DSC just goes to sleep. i often switch the terms when writing. either way "sleep" lets you have a little fun but will reign you back in when you get in over you head. 8sec. hold is completly off and you are left to your own devices, as you found out. you said your light was on so all you electronic helpers except ABS were completely off. thanks for pointing out the dash light 2ks2k.

TexasKyle

Push the button, DSC light comes on on the dash, hold for 7-8secs, TCS light comes on on dash. I knew all that before I got loppy with the car that night. I was thinking that if I didnt hold the button for the 7-8 secs that the TCS would still be fully on. That is where I messed up.

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

another reason not to street race.

TexasKyle

Good God, who said I was "street racing"? I was just having a little fun. If you have never done anything like this, and I dont mean almost wrecking, but doing a hard launch, spin the rears a little, then maybe you are to lethargic for the 8? Ok, sorry for the lethargic comment..........

beachdog

Maolin34 and others... I haven't read anywhere anything that is definitive on the operation of the ABS, TCS and DSC. So I have a question(s) about how do you actually drive to make them all work for you? This is all going to be oversimplified so no need to flame, just looking for some reality around the concept.

Generally, ABS takes over control of the brakes and automates the "pumping" that old-timers like me learned to regain control on slick surfaces. One of the things that you learn about ABS is that when it kicks in, you stay on the brakes. If you let off the brakes the ABS stops its thing because it assumes that you have things under control.

Generally, TCS is somewhat the opposite of ABS in that it is intended to prevent wheelspin on a launch. When wheelspin is detected, it can apply brake and cut throttle.

So, if ABS needs the driver to keep hard on the brakes to operate correctly, does TCS require that you keep doing what you're doing (ie hard on the throttle) in order to operate correctly? I ask this because my trained response to unintentional wheelspin on launch is to depress the clutch. Haven't really unlearned this yet so I probably haven't given TCS a chance to act.

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

I save it for the track.

TexasKyle

sorry BigO, was a bad day....nothing personal

legokcen

LOL!!! I concur.