Spin9k

This season I discovered one of the most significant upgrades I've made yet to obtaining 'Track Nirvana' - thanks to advice from our good vendor Synaptic3 Engineering

They turned me on to Cobalt Friction brake pads . I'd never heard of them, but when there for work, noticed some beautifully machined & finished brake pads on the bench. Told me they were these guys ... www.cobaltfriction.com

Eventually got GT Sports and afterwards was a bit concerned they would be wimpy, being the low end. The answer really was they have no 'low end', just varing degrees of friction, and 2 temp ranges. I talked to the company and they have RX-8 race teams using these and they have driven our car as well so they can hook anyone up w/the pad for their application, from DEs to full out race use.

Last weekend's track time took away any doubts - these pads have SERIOUS friction and long term consistancy under use. They are the most awesome pads I've used so far, they've expanded the car's braking envelope capability to the point it's going to take some time to exploit it fully. better still - Brake dusting is less than Hawk's, although I've now a little brake noise like at a stop light, whereas I had none w/Hawks. No biggie.

Any one else tried these or have any similar experience? At this point you'd not be able to get me to change these for other than more of the same. I was sorely disappointed with the Hawks as in "Is that all there is?" type disappointment. But this shows, it seems, there's always something new/better - you just need to find it.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

How are these for the street? Are they loud?

Spin9k

^ "although I've now a little brake noise like at a stop light, whereas I had none w/Hawks. No biggie."

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Finishline Performance (Rosenthal Arlingtion Mazda?) is listed as a dealer. This looks good. My Axxis Ultimates work well, but have heavy dusting.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Which Hawk pads are you referring to? There are different varieties and you just lumped them all in one pile, you brake pad racist, you ...

Spin9k

Sorry I should have qualifed the comment, Hawk HP+ (yea I know they suck now) were the ones I had and they have better pads and much better pads, for sure (but I just don't have any personal experience with them).

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I love Hawk pads, but the one exception is the HP+

Spin9k

Couple additional notes.... Cobalt Friction indicated that RX-8 race teams are using the most aggressive friction pad in the front with a much less friction pad in the back...that is XP2 front, XP5 rear. This is full out racing remember and they (race teams after testing all pads) found that huge bite in the front was best. Yea I know the XP5 is not shown in the compounds page, but it does exist (look at the application .pdf) and it must be something close to the GT Pro me thinks. I can't even imagine how the XP2 must stop!

Then as far as using these pads on the street. You'll notice in the specs that ALL pads useful temp range starts at 50 degrees. I asked about this and they say that their special no binder compounding makes them perfectly fine at this temp, so daily driving is easily done apparently with any of the pads, regardless. This is very different from most other company's race pads that I have seen and makes this whole track day thing just that much better, with no changing back to 'street' pads.

My experience with the pads I have is that there is no problem with the daily drive, and the bite is VERY immediate cold. So much so that you can literally stop short NOW if you're not thinking or are using your brake foot like you'd use the OEM or other less friction intense pads.

Also I'm told by Synaptics3 that each pad up the line has an increase of approx. 15% friction. I'm having a hard time imagining this given the bite I know know the GT Pros have, but next time I may go for one of the more intense pads for a change just to see what it's like!

If you're cahnging pads, trust me, you owe it to yourself to try some of these. They are that amazing. If you don't agree, please come back and tell everyone. Otherwise, come back here and tell us all how much FUN you had with them!!

Remember, track fun just isn't - unless you can STOP!

cheers, spin

SolarYellow510

I'll be interested to see a report on your rotors after a few more track days. I've seen other users change from higher-end Hawk pads to Cobalt. Hawk DTC-70 works more adherently, so it tends to be more rotor-friendly. The Cobalt higher-end race pad seems to work a bit more abrasively. Theoretically, that should help it have lower-temperature friction, and also respond a little more linearly to pedal effort, helping with modulation and release. However, it would also tend to chew on the rotor, giving it a rougher, more grooved surface and wearing it more quickly.

Many track pads will provide acceptable low-temperature friction by operating abrasively, but they really come into their own when temperatures rise and they start working more adherently.

Yeah, as you've discovered, HP+ (HPS, too) is not a track-worthy pad. Some sell it as a low-dust, low-noise pad for BMW 330 owners who don't want to have to clean their wheels. I've seen a car consume a set in 15 minutes on the track, because the suggestion to use it in that application was way off base - it doesn't have the temperature capability.

Keep us posted with what you observe.

SouthFL

Lol. I love HP Plus pads. I find them very track worthy when used on the RX8 (not so on others I've used them on- specifically, a WRX).
They suit my needs for HPDE 3 and 4 level track days in my street car.

I'm sure if I were more competition oriented, I'd use a different (track specific) compound however.

Spin9k

OK, I've got the goods on rotor wear with these Cobalt Friction pads and I can tell you I am as surprised as could be. I find virtually little to no wear at all!!

Yea right!! I'm sure someone will call bullchit on that for sure so I've tried to take some photos that show what I see. Remember the Cobalt Friction pads have been through 6 track days this year on these rotors.

When I 1st put these pads on they made sounds like a grinding wheel filing metal down (it went away after a fashion) and I assumed that this meant I was going to be replacing the rotors after this season. that was reinforced with the astounding bite and haul down turn after turn that I experienced each track session without fail. The impression and the fact is these are astounding good pads for this car in any high performance setting like the HPDEs that I participate in.

PHOTO 1 - is the front surface and you can see that it is just looking nice and brushed like it should, no groves, no excessive wear whatsoever. Note that these are the Racing Brake 2-piece rotors that have been on the car two track seasons, one with the HP+ pads and now one the Colbalt friction pads. kudos to RB too as these rotors have been super keeping temps down and I've experienced NO warping, NO shudder or anomolies of any kind. Thanks RB!!




PHOTO 2 - is the same for the rear rotors, except these are the OEM rotors now with ~30K miles on them, including wearing thru the OEM pads as well.




PHOTO 3 - is the front again with a steel rule against the surface to show the wear and the ridge at the edge. If you look close you can see the measurement marking on the ruler, and see that not only ios there barely any lip at all, but the rotor surface is virtually straight edge flat where the pad is rubbing the surface.




PHOTO 4 - same for rear, but these don't even have a lip and again the surface is virtually ruler flat.

Spin9k

As far as the pads themselves, I've approx 2/3or perhaps a bit more left from the original thickness. The feel of the pads has changed somewhat since the beginning. Initially they were extremely agressive feeling, stopping short without much of any pedal pressure, for example at low speed. Now they have 'loosened up' if you will, and have a very linear pedal to them regardless of speed. The grip is very good, and fade is non exsistent no matter what braking I do, from whatever speed.

The bigegst compliment iIcan give these pads is that I no longer worry about stopping or fading or that I don't have enough time to stop (I know that's the tires too) or worring about brake modulation when I'm on track. These pads (and my tires) give me the confidence I've been looking for (and never found on stock pads or Hawk HP+ pads) to KNOW the car will brake as my foot sees fit, under any combination of circumstances. I outbrake or equal brake anything I may encounter, easily and without fuss.

Summary after a track season: highly recommended and thanks to Synaptic3 for recommending them and selling such a great product.

SouthFL

I'm going to have to try these out.

So, to be clear, you've gotten zero fade with the GT Sport? If so, that's the way I'll go as well.

Spin9k

To be clear, I've had zero fade with the GT Sports at Calabogie, Mt Tremblant, and NHIS. After trying them, pls report back your experiences too SouthFL

eviltwinkie

I'm in the market for new pads for a Dec 2nd HPDE...I might give these a shot...Synaptic3 you say?

Spin9k

Yes I just ordered them with a call to the guys at the top of most every page view here on the forum. And when I ordered they actually HAD them in stock and I got them like the next day as I'm about 20 miles away.

eviltwinkie

How much? Cant seem to find any information on that...

Spin9k

Can't find the slip...but it was like ~$300 for all four wheels if I remember right. Give them a call or email for the exact price.

eviltwinkie

Thanks, will do...

LionZoo

Do you run stock calipers Spin?

auzoom

Trying to find a dealer here in Aus

Part # CRB.XXX.D1009

Spin9k

Yes, they seem to get the job done without any fuss or extra expense even if they are a bit heavy.

Astral

I've just ran these brakes on two track days at Mont Tremblant and at one autocross.

The really harsh initial bite went away after I bedded in the pads, though I probably did not quite bed them in all the way (I switched compounds from Hawk Performance Ceramic, so I had to "battle" the old transfer compound) as the first track session produced a little brake shudder under heavy braking. Though after that first session, I must've finally bedded them as it was nice and smooth for the rest of the weekend.

This pad has a stronger-than-OEM initial bite and bites after that pretty quickly. So the pedal travel required to stop is not as much as my Hawk Performance Ceramics were (which had less bite than OEM). This made it easier to heel-toe. However, because of the faster bite, the brakes are not quite as easy to modulate, so it was trickier to "ease off" the brakes than I expected (as opposed to "pop off" the brakes).

I ran these pads for 2.5 hrs of track in a newbie group with stainless steel brake lines and Motul RBF 600. I experienced zero fade and the pedal felt stiff and consistent all day long, including on the drive from the track.

I have no data on rotor wear.

Pad wear after 2.5 hrs on Mont Tremblant was 1.8 mm in front and about 1mm in the rear (or a little less even). The pads still have 8.5 mm left in the front (started out with 10.3mm). So I feel like I can do at least 4 more track days (at my newbie driving level) before they get a bit too thin (4mm). To me, this wear is good, though I have no idea what to expect.

So as track pads, these seem to be pretty awesome, though I could use a touch less bite (to allow a little more pedal travel and easier modulation).

For autocross, they were fine, the really quick initial grab made the braking less smooth, but that's also the operator's fault . I would not buy these for autocross. The OEM pads or any pad pretty much is good for autocross (IMO).

As street pads, they are poor. They are really dusty. After a bunch of street driving, the squealing got way worse. Sounds like a jalopy last few feet. If you brake quicker, it's not too bad. After a rainy day, they are quite a bit quieter.

But the dust is killer! My wheels went from clean to black in one autocross and one night of bedding them in and then driving 40 miles around. The dust is nasty and really sticks to the wheels. I still have to finish cleaning the caked on dust from some nasty spots, as I unprudently let the dust sit on there for a week (my wheels were black).

So next time I go to the track with these pads, I am waxing the wheels first, taking off these pads within days after the event and I am going to clean the brake dust off the wheels at the beginning and the end of the track day. Oh, and definitely I would wash the car after the event.

Mind you I drive an average of 45 miles a day (at least this month), so I have higher demands on good "street behavior" from pads than someone who may not drive the car nearly as much.

Oh yeah, and next time I'm getting a separate set of blank rotors from Centric to run with these pads. Don't care to keep re-bedding things in.

Short conclusion: great track pads, but too dusty for the street.

BlueRenesis82

Personally I think it is much easier to just run a street pad, and then a no compromise track pad. Especially when you are getting to an event and waiting to tech, I have had plenty of time to change out the front axle. The only hesitation that I would have would be doing the rears, as that rear piston can be a real pain to screw back into the caliper.

SouthFL

Same here. Read posts #44 thru 47 for one solution.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/track-day-brakes-operating-temperature-range-137786/page2/