flatso

What is the best way to jack the car so that you get all 4 wheels are off the ground? Ramps are great but not for doing things like rotating tires. So what is the best way to jack up the front and rear? I've heard pro's and con's about using the diff to jack the rear of the car and not sure about the front.

And what is the best way to tell if the car is jacked up level to do things like change tranny fluilds and diff fluids?

Chris in MD

I was going to give it my first try to jack the car today - found a thread that talked about using jack points along the "rail" (frame) that runs between the front/rear wheel wells. Also some other points that some members preferred instead. If using jack stands and a floor jack however, I would need four points to get two wheels off the ground on the same side.




Jack Point Thread

flatso

ya saw that thread but still wonder if there is something in the center because if you use those jackpoints you have to lift one side but how do you get the jack under the side your lifting.

G8rboy

I haven't seen it done with an RX8 yet, but Miata guys would often fit their floor jacks with a grooved 2x4 that fit the frame rail lip and offered enough weight distribution to lift the side up in the center using one jack point.

Personally, I never wanted to risk it (collapsing the frame rail lip and possibly bending the rail), so I bought a cheap set of jack stands and a small floor jack ($20 or $30 for all of it), and use all four jackpoints with jackstands. The floor jack will lift the side in just a few pumps, so I can have the car up in the air within 2 minutes or so. This is great for rotating tires, changing oil/fluids, or just looking at how Mazda put the thing together.

XcelR8

When I did the caliper painting over a weekend I lifted the car by each of the jack points. I did the rear first and it lifted enough to put a jack stand under the front A arm also. I put a stand under the back supension arm. Then lifted the front to adjust the jack stand higher to get the tire off. My concern was too much lean angle on one stand. It was solid when in the air. Not sure where I will put the jack stand when I install my springs, thats going to be a bitch.

Baller

The best way to jack a car here is with a gun, of course....

Chris in MD

Used my small floor jack to jack the rear - one at a time. Wanted to put some treatment on the surface rust on the wheel hubs (only seemed to be on the rear wheels) - looking forward to painting the hubs and calipers but that's another thread. I used the "knuckle" just inside the rails on each side. My floor jack point isn't deep enough to use the rails - it would crush them first (of course the jack would have worked just fine). Actually was pretty painless although I like the idea about a slotted 2X4 - would minimize any paint scratching that may turn into corrosion later.

Ned M

iTrader: (2)

If you have a hydraulic floor jack of the kind where the saddle is held in by a cotter pin, Eastwood Co. sells an adapter that fits your frame rail. It's a simple U-shaped piece of steel with a shaft welded on the bottom.

I've been using one for a number of years and it lets you jack the car via the frame rails but the floor jack is much faster than the jack supplied with the car. Can also use the floor jack and Mazda scissors jack together to lift up one whole side of the car to rotate tires.

Eastwood Co.

flatso

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=40105


this jack any good?

G8rboy

That's cool- thanks for the info- I'll have to check if my cheap-o jack has a removable saddle.

G8rboy

Yep- that's a real nice one. Harbor Freight usually has some pretty good deals...

PUR NRG

WARNING Avoid Harbor Freight when quality is important!

They have great prices but really cheap quality goods. You do not want to skimp on quality when your life could depend on it. I've found these "racer-style" jacks leak hydraulic fluid under pressure and have poor release control. They can serve a specific use (say at a track when changing one tire at a time) but otherwise I'd avoid them.

One thing that complicates the situation is I've seen similar jacks advertised that look almost identical but have different hydraulic mechanisms. Quality varies immensely but it's hard to tell just looking at it.
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PISSING LADY

boarder

So what brand/model would you recommend then ?

PUR NRG

I don't know of any mail-order lightweight jacks that I can recommend. The true racing jacks are $600 or so. I do have a similar lightweight jack (of better quality) that I only use to rotate tires. If I get under the car I use different equipment.

The jack I use at home and highly recommend is the AC Hydraulik. The DK20Q ($290) is a low profile jack and the DK12HLQ ($430)the extended reach version. You can get both of them here.

Jacks and jack stands are two critical pieces where an equipment failure can result in life-threatening injuries. It's not worth the risk to use low quality stuff.
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Vision Insurance Dicussion

blizz81

Still, the endangerment for life and limb is usually null in terms of the jack itself if all you're doing is jacking up to put some stands down. Even if for whatever reason you're placing a stand towards the middle of the vehicle where you may put your body in danger, you can observe if the jack is operating well enough to support weight before sliding under to place the stand.

Basically just making the point that following suggested practices, 99.99999999% of people get by with the $40 craftsman floor jack/jack stand set for years without incident, and for a lot of those people, spending hundreds of dollars isn't very feasible. Of course, the choice of whether or not 0.00000001% of a chance * life and/or limb is worth spending those couple hundred dollars is something everyone has to make on their own.

PUR NRG

Price != quality. I would trust (and own) a $40 craftsman jack over a Harbor Freight knockoff. If nothing else craftsman is more aware and easily tracked down if/when a problem occurs.

Everyone makes trade-offs when it comes to safety, performance and price. Cars themselves are a great example of that. I just don't want anyone to operate under the mistaken belief that these are high quality race jacks. They are not. They are great for certian applications but don't rely on them if your life/limb is on the line should they fail.
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Ebony Webcams

ranger4277

If you have a good low-profile floor jack that will fit, the workshop manual says you can single-point jack the front at the center of the front crossmember, or the rear at the center of the diff. This would make it easier to get the jackstands in the proper places on the side sills. (and quicker!)

XeRo

that's where i lifted the car in order to place my stands when I did my calipers, worked out perfect..

flatso

anyone have a pic of this location?

MEGAREDS

Bought a Floor Jack at Pep Boys this weekend... $40 -- as cheap as they come. I've not changed my own wheels before, so I'm very concerned about getting the right jack points. Can someone describe the most conservative points with enough detail for those of us with no experience?

G8rboy

You'll love it (compared to a sissors-jack). Here are the jacking points from the manual- if you look under the car at those points near the wheels, you'll see those compressed 'dots' in the reinforced part of the frame rail:

JoeRX8ter

Sears has a nice 3-1/2 ton floor jack with stands on sale for $99 this week.

beachdog

Ranger, can you post the diagrams for the front and rear? There was an old post that said not to use the diff because of aluminum housing. Does the manual say to support with wood between the jack and diff?

rxeightr

Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered mine at sears.com, and will pick up later today at the store.

beachdog

Don't throw away the receipt. The saddle of the jack is probably low enough to get under the diff but probably not the front cross member. If it's the same Craftman jack that I bought. I wound up buying the 2 1/4 ton for the front to fit under the cross member.

ranger4277

I'll see what I can do. I don't have a scanner available.. so might have to settle for a photo of the page. It is on page 00-00-24 I think for anybody else with a manual and scanner.

G8rboy

I can do it when I get home- I'm assuming you mean the workshop manual, right?

ranger4277

Yeah, the workshop manual. Thanks! I didn't want to have to post a crappy photo of the page.

Are you going to Rotary Revolution G8rboy?

G8rboy

Here you go...

G8rboy

Not sure yet- I'd like to, but I might have some scheduling conflicts that weekend. Some track time behind the wheel of my RX8 on Indy Raceway would be awesome...

beachdog

Thanks for the diagrams. Now ready for the tire rotations and more.

MEGAREDS

OK, several dumb questions... I appreciate your indulgence.

The floor jack in the diagrams appears to be dead center (left/right) of the vehicle along the axels... as if there are only two positions for floor jacking the car, as opposed to the four posititions I'm used to using when changing a tire on my other vehicles. Are there just two "floor jacking positions" but four "vehicle lift positions?" Can I (should I) use the floor jack as I would use the scissor jack, i.e., lift each wheel, swap tire, lower wheel? Do I need to buy stands to safely use a floor jack?

Also, I've always just tightened tire bolts until they were "good and tight." Do I really need to measure the torque?

Final question. In December I tried to untighten a bolt and found I couldn't budge it with the supplied lug wrench. I just bought a larger lug wrench which I assumed would give me the necessary leverage to untighten the bolts. I just realized that the tire bolts on my winter wheels are recessed and I can't get the wrench head over them without using the wheel lock key as an extender. Is it okay to use the wheel lock key in this way (on all the bolts)? My fear here is breaking the key... I didn't buy a spare.

As I said, basic questions I'm sure, but this one seems like it warrants using some caution.


EDIT:

Hmmm. Found a web link:

Tech Guys: Jacking Up A Vehicle

Looks like I answered some of my own questions... the procedure seems to be jack up center of front or back of the car, insert stands left and right, lower car but leave floor jack in place, just in case, right? ... meaning I need to go back and get some jack stands. Torque and wheel lock key questions still unanswered... any help is appreciated!

G8rboy

Yes, you want jack stands... not worth risking your life or a broken brake disc because of a failed hydraulic jack.

As for torquing the lug nuts- another yes- it's pretty important with alloy wheels. Unfortunately most shops use air guns with no regard for proper torque settings so that if you ever get a flat on the road you'll have no chance of removing the nuts without a breaker bar... but I digress. The proper torque settings were originally 65-85 ft-lbs in the shop manual, but in one of the TSB's they have changed the recommended torque to 108ft-lbs due to potential snapping/clicking noise from wheel/hub rubbing.

As for the key, you should be able to use it as an extender if you're careful- just don't use a breaker bar. Another suggestion I have to to get 4 regular lug nuts from the dealer or auto parts store and throw the locking lugs away. Someday, somewhere they'll bite you in the ***- I've see shops overtorque them to the point of cracking them or damaging the lock. And once they're overtighted with an air wrench, it's awfully difficult to get them removed with handtools... especially if you're on the side of the road in the rain (ask me how I know . If someone is serious about stealing your OEM rims (doubtful), they'll get the nuts off without the lock.

rx8cited

MEGAREDS,
Sears has torque wrenches on sale this week - good time to pick one up.

To minimize damaging the wheel locks and key, loosen each wheel lock first before loosening the regular lug nuts and always tighten the locks last. This minimizes stress on the locks and key.

rx8cited

PUR NRG

1. Any time you work on the car jack stands are recommended but not required.
2. Any time you work under the car jack stands are required.
3. Personal choice: when I rotate tires I use two jacks but no jack stands. That's my decision and I accept the risk if one jack should fail.
4. Torque wrench is extremely important. The wheel lock is the first thing I torque and the first nut I loosen.
5. Never use anti-seize on the lug threads. This can act as a lubricant and cause you to over-torque.
6. Over-torque is bad. Lug bolts are designed to stretch a little when proper torque is applied. Tighten beyond those limits and you risk over stretching the bolts. That can lead to the bolts snapping in two.
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Coach Purses

MEGAREDS

Thanks for several thoughtful responses... I'm off to Sears with a list of things to buy.

MSMAMBA

Agree.

I tried the 3-ton craftsman a while back when I changed the tranny and diff fluid. The jack is too big for the front.

I ended up driving the car up a ramp and lifting the rear with a 2-ton jack and some jack stands.

flatso

As much as I like getting bit on the *** I think you make a good point what size are our lugnuts I am going to replace my locking ones? Also is the 108ft lbs the new recommended torque or only if you have the click problem?

beachdog

Whenever someone else is going to work on my car i.e. brake job, I remove the locks in the parking lot before I hand over my keys. Many service managers have thanked me for relieving them of the responsibility of breaking them. I also bring a breaker bar and torque wrench when I go to pick the car up and put the locks back and properly torque the lugs.

flatso

so they drive the car without the lugnut? Is that good for the rim?