Hey! My shiznits gots to be pretty!

Compare this:

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...2&d=1202844167

to this:

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/mi...kats%20045.jpg

You haven't had any problems with the shock studs bending? My experience with them is that they are not terribly large diameter...

Bending? From what?
They are M10 p1.5. Its would take a LOT of force to bend them. Certainly way more than you apply while braking.

M10? It's been a while since I've looked at them. I was thinking they were more like M6. Mild steel M10s should take several hundred pounds of force before shearing (though you do need to reduce this due to the tensile stress of the nut).

I didn't see these on the AxialFlow web site. Are they available yet?

M6? You are thinking of the studs that hold the strut bar. They are M8p1.25.
The three strut bosses are really, really tough. If you break them, you have other problems to contend with!

Rich hasn't offered it for sale quite yet, but I think it is forthcoming.

Just a quick review:
It is nicely machined, takes very little effort to install and it works. The pedal is like rock now, instead of paper (or maybe scissors).

Yes you're a pretty boy.
You have the production nuts with the domed head.
What's that they say, if it don't go chrome it.:dubs:

I was just waiting for some feedback before marketing them.
There are a bunch machined and at the anodizer now.
I will run the nuts Friday. Take some more pictures and put it up on the website.

What do ya bet Jeff would like his red to match his hoses?
Suffer with it bare buddy.:mad:

I like it "au naturel"!

I received mine today and just installed it sans strut tower brace to check fitment. It's a very nicely machined piece Richard. I will be cutting my strut tower brace and installing it as soon as I get the right tools and go to China for a week.:)

The only problem I had is my 22mm open end wrench didn't quite fit over the nut heads so it was a bit tough to tighten down. That and I don't have a 22mm socket. :uhh: so I guess I'll pick one up.

You'll need a 22mm socket for the brace mounting nuts, 17mm open end wrench to tighten the master cylinder support spacer, 12mm socket to remove the strut tower brace, 14mm socket to take off the shock mount nuts.

I need to get a hole saw that's made to cut metal. My wood set is too aggressive and won't bite on the strut tower brace. A drill press would definitely be nice and clean.:)

I haven't been able to drive it yet tonight but one observation is that the master cylinder definitely sags at rest. When tightening down the spacer nut it definitely pushed the master cylinder back and up. Geez this thing can't even hold it's own weight...

I have some pictures though...
pieces that come with the kit
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../office_12.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../office_13.jpg
strut tower after removing brace
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../office_14.jpg
the mounting nuts fit on the shock bolts nicely.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../office_15.jpg
checking the positioning and fitment. Looks very good.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../office_18.jpg
brake master cylinder spacer. I guess you call this the "business end"
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../office_17.jpg
installed
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../office_19.jpg
contact point with the brake master cylinder
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../office_21.jpg

It's not really 22 mm try 7/8 inch. Sorry about that but try buying 22mm hex stock, not. 7/8 hex bar is the best I can do. It has to be at least that size to cover the counter bore. The bore is the same depth as the nut is long, so the thickness of the hardened steel washer is the clearence to the bottom.
We could have just put nuts at the bottom but holding it from on top makes it much stronger.
Now just because you have your 1/2 breaker bar on a 7/8 socket doesn't mean tighten it down like a lug nut. Remember it is only a 10mm stud. I think I better come up with a torque number for this before mass selling. You just know someone will rip their stud out if not warned.

Also I don't know just yet how much to preload the master cyld. I used 1 flat on the bolt after contact. You could use more but why. Wait I know why, because it might rattle if there is not enough preload. Lets try 2 flats to start with. How much did MM use?

One more thing MM it's 10x 1.25 thread, I know because I taped the first set wrong and had to make 2 more for my car.

Thanks for the info. Richard. I'll take a look at a 7/8" socket. Good idea on the torque specs. The bolts that were on the studs before were 30 ftlbs.

What do you mean by 1 flat on the bolt? I'm not familiar with your term.

Sorry, I meant to bring that up. It took me a minute to think of going to the storage area to get a 7/8" socket. Not one that I use too often these days.


Mazda wants to see 34 - 46 ft/lbs on that.

I just went with contact + 1/4 turn. Any more and it starts to push the MC up.

Yeah, I should have known that as well. There aren't too many 1.5 pitch threads on that car.

There are 6 flats on a hex head screw. The term comes from adjusting the "barrel valve" on drag race type fuel injection. A left and right hand turnbuckle that connects the fuel valve to the butterflys. This richens or leans the low speed mixture. More tech term would be moves the fuel ramp in relation to the butterflys. Because there really is no slow speed system in drag racing.
"Richen it one flat" might be heard in a drag pit.
Top fuel cars are not allowed electronic injection. They don't make nozzles big enough anyway. TF cars burn a gallon a second. @$50 a gal. That's not bad they use 8 pistons every 4.5 sec too. :banghead:


MM we're on the same page, 1/4 of 6= 1.5 flats

Ah. Thanks for the explanation. I'm going to start speaking in flats now too.:)

Any thoughts on whether or not there is any adverse affects of pre-loading the master cylinder? I basically adjusted it out until the master cylinder resisted so it is pushed up and back some maybe 1/4" to 1/2" total. I didn't crank it. Just adjusted it until it wouldn't move back easily.

I drove the car this morning and the brake pedal feels fabulous! It's got the travel and modulation consistency I'm looking for. It's nice and tight and I can feel the brakes grab as soon as I touch the pedal and the force ramps up really nicely.:)

Richard this is a great product!!

a great product is one mysql101 can purchase and use. since mysql101 cannot purchase it, mysql101 cannot agree.

also, mysql101 wants one

I wouldn't pre-load the MC at all if possible.
You simply don't want any rattles.

^^^^^^^
what he said
1/4 or more sounds like way to much. I don't know what hurts but I can't see any reason why drive the damn thing back that much.

Okay. I'll loosen it up some. I figured if there was some preload on it there would be less flexing of the pieces themselves.

I'm definitely not cranking it down though. Just a little preload on the assembly so all the flexy parts are flexed back a bit.

+1 Where can one obtain this object?

It'll be up on the site sometime this week.
Meanwhile you can send Paypal $70.00 plus $12.00 for S&H
to: axcharg@socal.rr.com
With your name and address plus your color choice. Blue, Red or Bare.
It'll go out by Priority Mail the next day. Or if it's early enough the same day.


And the faster they move the higher the pressure and the faster sound moves.

Mazda advised against loading the MC for the Mazdaspeed brace. I can't remember the reason exactly, but it was enough to convince me not to load it.

[There is no reason to load the MC back to where it came from, that puts full time stress where it was never ment to be. All we are trying to do is keep it from moving foward. If it wouldn't rattle we would just use contact and no more.
Loading it one flat is .010". A piece of copy paper is .005" so you've pushed it back the thickness of 2 pieces of paper. If you go as MM has 1/4 turn then you've moved it .015" or three peices of paper.
That is all it takes and will not hurt anything while keeping it from moving foward.
Turning the screw is EZ and you forget the power of the ramp. So turning it until you get resistance is dumb, the parts are so flimsy that it can go a long way until you feel something. You're not punishing it for being flimsy just limiting it.

Mazda also advises against using Synthetic Oil and using ANY aftermarket parts other then their own...

Make little sense, your argument does.
- Yoda

Except for that time Polak cranked some preload on his MC and his ABS locked on him rendering his car immobile.

There's a difference between lawyer speak recommendations and actual engineering recommendations. They might sound close to the same in wording, but the difference is there.

Well, the other issue is that pre-loading it will distort its position pretty obviously, so it really is a moot point.
Turn it 'till it touches and lock it down.
That is enough.

I did an autocross day today. Since it was a practice day, I got a lot (15) of runs in and really got to beat the thing up a lot.
The AF brace makes a huge difference to pedal feel at the limit.
Huge.

^ Good to know.

Jedi, when are we going to make a trip the RP's?

This looks pretty cool, I already have the SS lines and this would top that off nicely.
If I bring my car up would you able to punch that hole in for me?

Richard that's probably some valuable advice to put in your documentation when you start your finished product. Most folks (myself just now educated)won't know what is okay for their master cylinder and what is not.

i am not knocking at this product at all. or the inventor for all his efforts, but,

-i have saw this thread immediately and considered having one at the cost...its relatively inexpensive.
the only thing that bugs me is having to remove material from the oem strut bar... removing structural rigidity for added rigidity of another. i have to think about that one really hard and couldn't think of a reason to sacrifice.

it may do a fair job for both tasks, but i would rather spend extra for one that does each job well.

i have been thru aftermarket adjustable strut bars that by the look of the structural design which doesn't look well engineered, and i was right. after hard use and adjusted to be loaded with tension, it bended the brace.

^so thats the ONLY reason which i feel it may not be the absolute best if ever were subjected to those extremes... it may be a decent performer, but i'm a buyer that likes to cover all my bases if i'm to spend any $$$ amount.

just my 0.2cents

btw, this is probably only the first version,right? i like to see a revised one... and i'm in the market for a MS strut bar... but like to see a lower cost solution.
we're a step closer, just not completely sold.

thanks for considering my opinion.

btw... KWESCOTT??? not sure whom i'm addressing this to...

but as far as clutch pedal assembly is concerned, i was under the assumption that it was the bracket itsself that was weak. kinda like how brake pedal was engineered to break away to possibly save a limb in a frontal impact. that may be the weak point in the clutch pedal bracket...think we're mentioning the same thing...just checking. but,

all these rigidity items here are to address the flex from firewall flex. which BOTH brake and clutch are connected to(via firewall) that makes both suffer. so hypothetically bracing the bigger(master cyl) piece would induce less flex of clutch pedal flex due to stiffened firewall as a byproduct...makes sense?

seems the absolute only way to eliminate firewall flex and ultimate rigidity in the frontal area is to tie all panels down, which means a 4 point strut brace. the basic principal of "triangulating" braces to evenly distribute torsional twist.
BUT, that is very intrusive. which is why i'm considering the MS strut bar... and not an expensive brace.

i'd only wish i had enough manufacturing power to contribute, but i don't. and i may be only 1 person... but i hope thats enough to sell on the inventor with the manufacturing power to fab up something with no other drawbacks.

then you should wait for the updated version or a better solution.
the whole waiting part is a bitch..

i have the mazdaspeed bar..

i did think about selling it for this product..

simple well made..

beers :beer:

I'd have to agree with TrochoidMagic, except I already have the Mazdaspeed brace so I'm not a potential customer. However, expecting a customer to have to dremel his stock brace is probably doing a great deal to limit the market.

ok,

i will say that anyone that is going to use the brace for what it is designed to do. would gladly cut the part or drill the hole..

this is not a fluff thing.. it is made to be used.....

beers :beer:

Strut braces are for marketing on a non-MacPherson strut suspension.
Its just there for looks, really.

^^I have to disagree with you on that one.

Read my thread. https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-55/front-strut-tower-brace-sliding-137835/

To be less cryptic: At my track day last weekend my strut tower brace was sliding back and forth due to the hard cornering forces. If it were not useful it wouldn't be exposed to high loads and be flexing/moving.

MM: yeah, some are. but not all... the improvement is small, so thats the reason why spending a fortune on a strut brace is... not a great idea, then say...putting in the same $ amount for a sway bar. performance-wise speaking of course.

but for a cheap strut bar... on other vehicles, even any aftermarket adjustable one will be of some use to a degree. and for a car that has one from the factory... even a puny one... it certainly isn't there for looks. so i can't fully agree with u on this MM. it really depends on the application, and the vehicle.

but on another note, i already see a possible solution for a revised version of this product. and it isn't much changed... wish i can explain, but i'm not good in applying photos on the computer...

If you look at the engineering pics and sketches for the car, you will see that there is no possible movement across the strut mounting points that aligns with the rigid line of the strut bar.

I read your thread before, Shaun. Suspension flex isn't why your bar is moving. Its because your coils are binding and twisting the upper mount.

Its all moot anyway - the hole that you drill for the AF brace doesn't fall along the axis of the bar, nor does it compromise the apex of the brace mounting arch.
It ends up being just as tough (and just as useless) as it was before the added brace.

ok...get this for a revised version w/o sacrificing structural rigidity of the oem bar... and i'm not one to complain about modification or using a drill. but this seems to make sense, hear me out.

(2nd photo, the yellow bodied car) the hole thats yellow, and more obvious on this vehicle. lose the other bolt down location, the one to be drilled. and use the hole thats yellow in this picture... u really only need soo much to keep it in place. and the other bolt down location seems like its main purpose was to keep it from spinning. so the yellow hole serves the alternative route for the revision...
the strut bolt is strong enough... and obviously of high tensile strngth. so we only need one and moving the other bolt down location to be the yellow hole. saves headache and machining material... makes sense???

i'd do that in a heart beat if given the manufacturing power... who likes something along the lines of what i suggested for a revised version?

i know i do!

do it, and for even the same price ($70??? ) if seller sells for same... and i'm SOLD! as the MS strut brace alternative is concerned, i'd take it if its made and i give my word. done!

That tab is really flimsy.
Where Rich has the bar anchored is the structurally most rigid area of the vehicle (and part of the reason why a strut bar doesn't do anything there).

i think you will find the owners of the ms bars got them for the bling, or just for the brake brace.

beers :beer:

Interesting thought. Could you post a little more about that in my thread and your thoughts on how to check that and fix if necessary.

MM: not to argue with you. but just to prove a valid point of my own, a strut bar does do its job... get this,

on a adjustable no-name bar i used on a honda. i jacked up car from the center of the subframe, tension the strut bar (add load to the bar), and lower car. as the body of the car gains back the weight from its original state of sitting on the suspension, the strut bar bracket "popped" into place...at which time i re-torqued it down. and no-one seems to understand the benefit of that procedure... which gets me.

but anyway, thats just what i wanted to say. and ur right as well... not all cars have aftermarket bars that are actually "functional". you'll just have to see. but i know mine works as it bended from usage and sustained body flex.
get this. the cheap no-name bar had a design flaw that was on the bracket itself... it has a large hole on one side of the bracket to clear other items that run thru where its supposed to hook up, "before" the strut bolts. so its quite obvious it was the weak link.

and however, even though the AF bracket has a modify point outside of the strut bolt... it was from "that"^^ bad experience that i will not sacrifice even the oem strut bar's structural rigidity.

this is my story... hope you understand where i'm coming from now.:)

need to get another look at the MS bar. but then again... even though. i'd say ur right on the money swoope. that is the exact reason. (brake/firewall brace) :) but not for $200+ i won't!

like someone said to me earlier... maybe i will wait for a revised version.

and i still wait for an actual "functional" alternative...

how'd you like ur MS bar anyway?

my ms crossbrace is hidden under the engine cover..

and the brake brace that came with it was well worth the money...

that is not the topic here..

richard pauls stuff is always well done.

i have his shifter from the first group buy.. flawless..

for the money.. this is the best mod ever, if you auto x or do track days. or if you really really drive hard. most do not..

for the rest it is just bling.. as is the ms bar..


i will say that the difference in the pedal feel is not shy...

but what do i know..:lol:

beers :beer:

right. it is flimsy. but i don't think that matters.
not sure if i made my statement clear, but seeing that the master cyl stopper bolt is making contact with the master "square" on, i don't expect having to use the other bolt-down location as reasonable to stop the bracket from spinning.
see what i'm saying?

still. i think the "flimsy" hole is actually a better spot to keep the bracket from spinning. which is unlikely... given that at least only the first bolt-down is tightened and torqued.

am i really not making any sense? i hope i shed some light on the idea, thats all.

i think you miss the fact that this bolts to the shock studs..

in the photo one stut bolt is not installed..

if that is not the case i cannot help you.. this is pretty simple..

beers :beer:

I'm really going to miss this sale'

This part starts out 3.25 Lbs and ends up 1 lbs. It's not the material cost I'm crying about it's the chips that it becomes that cost the money. If I could have made it smaller and picked up that thin little tab I would have. If I built a part that was to weak I'd never hear the end of it. Look at the geometry and you'll see it just will not be the same.
We went to alot of expense to make those nut so the pressure is applied to the top of the part giving it a mechanical advantage.
We really do think these things out as we are real engineers with book learning and all that stuff.
Like Sundance said to Butch "you just keep thinking Butch, that's what you're good at."

BTW I don't run a strut bar at all. The flange you see was just to test the install, it's gone now.

i understand swoope.
i'm only talkin about using only 1 for the kit. the one directly in front of the master, and doin something with the yellow hole from the picture i used off MM.

either way bro, it doesn't affect me. i like the kit, but not a potential buyer for this version... its cheap, but i'd get it just to have to deal with modifying it to how i would see it useful.

lionzoo is right. i'd do everything else but remove material from the oem strut bar.
and this is limiting its customers. for someone anal like myself... i'd like to find a system that lets me keep the oem bar completely intact... or wait til someone else makes what i'm looking for. you only get one oem bar with the car, ya know?

well there you go..

start a new adventure. stop craping here..

start you own thread about how you are going to do it..

i am sure you will corner the market with your one bolt solution..

beers :beer:

RP: i understand all that. and my very first post was clearly stated that i wasn't knocking on the inventor for his efforts. just so we're clear.

and from a functional standpoint... you said urself that u didn't deny where i suggested as a bad spot. so why not just do it?

i understand you guys do your homework. as you can see... so do i.
and maybe thats part of the reason why i'm not sold on ur first version.
i gotta respect you for ur efforts. but then again... i understand its cost in more machining work...but, its quite obvious. you didn't rule-out or deny using that tab as a valid spot.

so what are you waiting for? i can care less if you charged extra for the machining work for it to use the tab instead of drilling out the oem bar. and you'd know i'd buy it! and its also obvious the extra effort will bring you more potential buyers as someone stated... and not "limit" yourself to certain buyers.

ur already doin a good job. i'm just waiting for someone who's willing to do a great job....
make 2 versions. i'll get the one that doesn't destroy the oem bar, and we'll see what sells better.

ok ok ok. got you swoope. i even went the distance to be as respectful about my opinion as possible. and no-body blatantly pointed me out as completely wrong...
sorry people cry and can't take constructive criticism.

if buying compromised parts suits you and the general public, i'll leave it be.
i'll stop crying myself and fork out the money for top end parts. all is happy now, right?