Fateful8

Ok Here's the thing. My 2004 RX8 will not start. I was trying to turn it over yesterday and about 30 seconds into cranking the thing, everything just shut off. Not one thing on the car worked. so I took the battery in to get it tested (it was a brand new battery BTW) and Autozone and O'Reillys both said it was a good battery. so I then took in the Alternator and again it got a clean bill of health. So I got under the car and pulled out the starter and sol and got them tested, and they were also good to go. I then got out my voltage meter and did a cont. test on the cable leading from the battery to the starter and that was all good. Still the car wont start, not even with a jump.

I'm so lost I don't know what else to check. I checked all the wires for damage but cant seem to find any. When I try to turn the car over when i'm being jumped, a electrical sound like when you touch a metal object to the battery leads occurs. This sound is very hard to hear and you have to have your head under the hood to hear it. It sounds like its coming from the fuse box, the battery, and the starter all at the same time maybe, I don't know. I'm so lost. Please Help.....

Ricky SE3P

iTrader: (10)

another case of flooding. check and replace coils, wires, and plugs.

LittleZ360

I'm thinking an ignition problem, which led to a flooded engine.
Replace coils,wires, and plugs like mentioned above.
Might have to go through the deflood process.
An if you're actually hearing electical arcs when you jump the car, you might have a serious electrical problem... Might sound like a dumb question, but did you have the cables hooked up right...? Let's hope...

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Flooding is a symptom, and you could indeed be flooded.

I'm a bit more interested in a few things you noted:
Why were you cranking for 30 seconds? If nothing else, the starter shouldn't be cranking for more than ~10 seconds or you risk damaging it due to internal starter motor heat. If it doesn't start in that time, there is something else wrong.
"EVERYTHING"? including dash lights?


You also aren't really saying how far you are getting in the starting process:
1: Key in
2: Clutch in
3: clutch sensor closes the circuit allowing start
4: Key to start
5: Starting relay opens, providing power to the starter from the battery
6: Battery power cranks over the starter motor
7: Starter motor spins the engine through the flywheel
8: Ignition opens
9: Coils get power, begin generating spark current
10: Wires transmit the current to the plugs
11: Plugs begin to spark
12: Fuel pump begins pumping
13: Engine standard compression and combustion should occur

It is possible for a no-start condition to be due to a failure at any one of the above points.

How far are you getting?



My personal gut is that it's a grounding problem. Example: My Miata wouldn't start after sitting for almost 8 months. Would crank strong with a new starter and fully charged (trickle charger), but just no fire. Ended up figuring out that the main grounding strap from the engine block to the chassis had rusted at the chassis end, and it was ungrounding the ignition as a result, and no spark.

Thinking this due to the "everything dead", and the description that could be arcing electricity.

LittleZ360

RIWWP- said it quite well...
and I think he's confused about the same thing as me...
You say it's cranking, but you also said nothing works or turns on...
If you can get a cranking engine, but no dash lights or anything, then I'm assuming a fuse or fuses are blown... I don't know.
We need a clearer discription of what's happening from "off" to "attempted start"

Try use the sequence of operation RIWWP provided and see where it stops.

Fateful8

Yeah but would Flooding cause there to be no power at all. I mean this thing is dead, no lights on the dashboard no power to anything. its like a battery isn't even connected.

Fateful8

Yeah I double checked the cables.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Note, that you have something else wrong. However, that other problem could have caused you to now be flooded.

If you aren't getting any power to anything, and the battery is confirmed good, then it's a grounding problem.

Fateful8

I was cranking for 30 seconds because I am having hot start issues due to low compression. I wasn't cranking it for the entire 30 seconds. I would crank it for a second or two then wait a few seconds then try again.

Yes everything including dash light. This thing has no power, no lights come on, no sound when you open the door and the keys in the ignition. its like there's no battery in it at all.

When I was cranking it over (when there was power) I would turn the key(its an automatic) and the engine would not start, it would try and turn over( make the starting sound but it just wouldn't catch. I guess it would be close to 6. or 7. in your list, I don't know though, I'm no mechanic. All I know is I was turning the key and the engine was trying to start but just couldn't get there, But that doesn't matter I don't think right now because my problem now is that iI can't get any power to turn the car over.

I also checked the grounding cable (the cable that goes from the negative terminal to the frame right under the battery) But I noticed that the negative terminal cable branches out and goes somewhere under the airbox. Do you know where it goes and what its function is?

Thanks for your help

Fateful8

Sorry for the confusion. I was explaining what had occurred when this problem started. When I tried to turn it over the other day It would not turn over, I tried cranking it over for about 30 seconds then, While cranking it, the car just lost all power and I haven't been able to get it back. It has no power at all, like there is no battery at all. but like I said I checked the Battery, starter, and alternator. I can no longer try cranking it over.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You are still being somewhat confusing. "As if there was no battery at all" would mean that you wouldn't even get the engine to crank. The fact that it's cranking means that you do indeed have electrical power. If you do not have dash lights at all (with the key in and to the On position, without trying to start), but it still cranks, then this seems to go back to a grounding problem, though could be a fuse.

All cables that connect into the negative battery cable "stream" are grounding cables. Every single one. They connect in from various electrical points that need a straight shot, and several to the chassis, to complete any grounds that run from components to the chassis (like the tail lights are grounded to the chassis, so the electricity returns through the chassis to a negative battery cable chassis point and then to the battery)

In the footwell, there is a kick panel next to the clutch, and behind that several fuses. Check all of them to see if any are blown. There should be a spare fuse of each type in that panel, in case you find any blown (but make sure to pick up replacements!). After that, check the fuses in the box under the hood (just behind the driver's headlight)

Fateful8

Ok, sorry for not mentioning the hot start issue.

Do you know where I should check? The grounding cable seems to branch out to multiple locations. One location in particular I am unsure of is the cable that leads from the terminal and goes somewhere under the air box. Do you know where it goes? How do I check grounding issues? Thank you For your help

Fateful8

I only had power to crank it the other day ( before this problem started) while cranking it the other day it would not start, then all of a sudden, the power went out like the battery had died. Now I can't get power at all. When I mentioned the turning "the engine over for 30 seconds" part, it was just to explain what I was doing at the time this problem (no power at all - Like there's no battery)first began.

Ok I will check fuses. Thank you for your quick input.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The single most common grounding problem point for the RX-8 (and most cars) is the negative battery terminal clamp itself. Corrosion eats away at the clamp and the post, creating a non-conductive separation between them where you can't see. The vibration from trying to start or driving can finally wiggle the clamp free enough that it's not enough of a connection to start.

The quick fix is to completely remove the battery terminal clamps (negative then positive), clean the posts and the inside of the clamps, then reconnect (positive then negative) ensuring a solid well seated clamp.

If you have an dielectric grease, coating the clamp and the post will help prevent it in the future, though there are other tricks as well.

Fateful8

Thanks for the advice, however I did clean the terminal and clamps really well and tighten the very tight. should I do a continuity test from the negative clamp to the ground and where ever the other cable leading from the negative terminal that goes under the air box? Do you know what the purpose of this cable is?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Every cable leading to the harness that connects to the negative battery terminal is a grounding cable. Every single one. No exceptions.

Yes, if you find that you have no blown fuses, start doing continuity tests between the negative terminal and as many grounding points as you can find. Include the generic engine block, the fuse boxes, the alternator, the starter, generic chassis points, etc...

If it's not fuses and not a grounding problem, let us know, because it's probably going to get much more involved at that point.

Ricky SE3P

iTrader: (10)

Well it sounds like it was flooded, and he tried starting for so long that he caused additional problems now.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Doesn't change the point that an RX-8 with zero issues will not flood. You can only flood it from having something ELSE fail. Flooding is a symptom, not a root problem. It is also a problem, but it ALWAYS stems from something else failing.

Fateful8

Ok Guys,

I Fixed it! It turns out the cable that connects to the solenoid ( the one that is a plug and not a screw) was damaged. Sorry I have no idea where this cable goes or what it does. I patched up the cable and it started right up! I'm going to go to the dealership and get a replacement cable, I'll let y'all know what this cable goes to (if you don't already know) when I get up to the dealership. Thank god it wasn't something more difficult.

Thanks to everyone for all there input and advice, I really appreciate it!

LittleZ360

Glad to hear!