Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Hello to everyone here at the Rx8 community, I've been a long time lurker of rx8club since before purchasing my car. This is my first post considering I really haven't had a need to post, since I can pretty much just search whatever information I'm looking for. So here's my problem... I recently test drove another MT 2005 RX8 that just had a new motor put in by mazda about 2k miles ago, and I noticed a power difference between my 8 and this one. Obviously I thought well it's a brand new motor what can I expect, my car had its original engine replaced at about 30k miles and is currently at 90k with me. I'm not the original owner, but I have been premixing and servicing this car myself since 80k when I bought it. I've gotten motor mounts, spark plugs and wires, new tires, new battery, transmission oil and rear differential changed... Only thing I hadn't done was get new ignition coils, but they've been running fine since I've had the car so I never expected anything although I was planning replacing them in the near future. And I haven't had any problems on cold or warm starts.

Long story short, I figured I needed new coils and maybe that was the powerloss I felt when compared to the other 8. One night after some spirited driving and a couple redlines, I decided to look under the car and look at my cat... It had a glowing o2 sensor. I remembered reading in the forums that it is usually a symptom of a clogged cat... So I said well damn that's probably causing my power loss. I have no idea how long it's been clogged or if it recently started getting clogged. So I decided to get a compression test done to see how the motor is doing. Considering the power loss I figured it wouldn't pass. I got the results, and I uploaded the pics. While rotor 1 had slightly better compression, I am pretty damn sure rotor 2 would be considered failing and the second and third pic are 2 tests of rotor 2 at slightly different rpm. The service advisor told me the results and I told him in person that it's considered failing isn't it? He said well it's considered borderline and is kind of in a grey area... So they sent the results to Mazda hq and they're going to contact me and let me know what their decision is to replace the motor or not. Naturally I got pissed when he told me that, because according to the compression graph is it not failing?? It only takes failing 1 rotor to mess up an engine. I don't understand why they need to have mazda hq decide and the dealer cannot just make the decision. Anyway enough of that rant, I just wanted to verify with you guys if they are considered failing results? Also I know they're going to ask me for proof of service, I have advanced auto parts receipts, as well as statements from my bank account and credit card of purchases I have made at advanced. I am on top of my cars service all the time and am extremely meticulous with it. But I don't have every receipt, how strict are they with that?

Sorry for the long post/rant guys, I could use some advice. I kind of want to prep myself if they decide not to replace my motor and be a bit more educated with what I can do if they decide to take that route. The way I see it is, if they decide not to replace it I doubt it would last over 100k and they would have to replace it eventually.

This is the graph I've been using to compare my results. https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...6&d=1266716801

I would also like to thank you guys, even though I'm not an active poster. You guys have a nice community here that can provide anyone new to the rotary engine and Rx8's with a lot of very useful information. I check the forums daily, and maybe I can finally be a real member, although I've felt like all this time and I know most of you although none of you know me.

Spandrel

When I had my engine(s) replaced, Mazda told the dealer how to get the compression tester to autocorrect to the specified RPM (250 RPM if I recall correctly), at which point the minimum spec is 6.8 (nominal is 8.3, but good luck seeing that). Mazda wouldn't replace the motor until the dealer ran the test in the autocorrect mode.

Also looks like you may have the old starter motor? The newer ones turn 300-350 RPM, and help sometimes with starting issues (my path was coils, then starter, then motor, then motor (damn QC at the reman site, evidently))

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

there is a button on the tester to normalized it to250 rpm.


as for op, almost all dealership requires Mazda approval for new engine, only couple of dealers in the country does not need it.

there is no grey area in this, its always either pass or fail. well at least your dealership is willing to try to get approval. but i have a feeling they will try to hit u up with some items and call them oh its required for engine replacement

the rear rotor always has lower compression, cuz of the way coolant flows it runs hotter thus have shorter life

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

NYCGPS is correct. You will either pass the test or you will fail the test. There is no "grey area". The numbers themselves are actually "failing" if you ignore the RPM, but since compression increases as the RPM does, when you normalize those numbers to 250rpm, yes, you are right on the line.

The dealer CAN NOT make the decision to cover the engine under warranty however. All they can do is submit the paperwork to MNAO to find out if MNAO is going to cover the engine. They wouldn't even bother submitting paperwork on a passing engine.

If you have all your receipts and stuff, go to MazdaUSA.com, get an owner's account (free), and put in all your records there. It's a handy list. However, if the paperwork has already been submitted to MNAO, then you are passed the stage when they usually ask for it. Usually. Prepare anyway, because they still might.

MariesRX8

Is this true? I have the newer starter, but it was put in back in 2007, and when my compression test was done a year ago it read 268 rpm. Just wondering if that means it's getting old and tired I'd been thinking 268 was actually pretty healthy?

On a more related note, I know you guys hate "Stealerships" as you call them, but this is one situation where it pays to have had all your service done by Mazda, as they'll obviously have the service records on file and so there's usually no hassle regarding the engine replacement.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yes, 268 RPM is healthy. The newest starters are still ~6-8 years newer than the upgraded starter that was moved to in 2005. Anything over about 230-240 rpm is sufficient to avoid worrying about, but a faster spin is quite a difference in start up. >300rpm is practically amazing in the difference it makes to starting

Your 221/222 rpm is dipping down a bit, and will likely slowly keep dropping (after all, electric motors can and will fade over time), and should be replaced by the time it gets to around 200rpm, since it will start causing problems trying to start up.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

newer ones does not spin 300 rpm, at least not when its loaded.

i replaced my starter 2 months ago cuz my updated starter that was replaced in late 2005, has devolped a dead spot and its getting slower and slower, so i just replace it. 1/2 hr of work, not bad.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I think it depends on what you go with NYCGPS. I have seen several compression test results recently that reflected RPMs hovering from 290-310rpm.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

it depends, there are stealership out there will still try to rape u even u did all work with them.

i mean if they don't overcharge everything and worst case to mess up my car, i really don't mind to pay someone to do the dirty job.

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm getting my front right wheel hub assembly replaced tomorrow because I have a bad wheel bearing. I've spent a lot of money on my car just doing maintenance, and unfortunately ignition coils and a new starter would probably have to wait while my wallet recovers heh. If my engine gets approval to be replaced I will be a happy man, and the first thing I will probably do is get rid of my cat and put a mid pipe, and get new ignition coils.

One thing I'm confused on... Doesn't the person testing the compression set the rpm level? Why would they test it at different rpms rather than just a set one? From the sound if it, it seems like the state of the starter itself is what decides the rpm of the compression test, but I don't know...

LGJmissionks

I have a 2006 with 40k mostly city miles as my work is only 3miles away. About 2 months ago the CEL came on, took it to the dealer and they said it was the 2ndary intake shutter valve = $900. I said no thanks and started reading this forum. I started putting high octane gas in the car and driving it harder (getting it up to 7-8 rpms) on my way to work. I haven't seen the CEL since. However, it's been having issues with hard start whether it be cold or warm. I have to hold in the key for several seconds before it turns over. I changed the battery a month ago and that didn't help. My husband just changed the spark plugs today thanks to this forum (saved me over $300 as the dealership was going to charge $398 to change them) and it still didn't start right up. I am wondering if I should have a compression test or if there is a test to see if my starter is bad as it's the original from 2006? It has never flooded. I have always made sure to never shut it off cold. It does NOT have issues with missing out or power at higher rpms. Just hard to start. Any help is appreciated.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

For the test, the engine is spun by the starter that is on the car. Lowest speed I've seen was 150rpm or so, highest was ~315rpm.

Hard start when cold AND warm to the same degree suggests that your starter is failing and the spin RPM is dropping. A fresh starter should clear that up. It's REALLY easy, even easier than plugs, since it's just 2 14mm bolts, 1 grounding wire plug and 1 12mm nut holding on the power wire. Right next to the transmission in plain view, nothing else to remove, just have to lift the driver's side of the car.

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the clarification, I figured that's what it was. Well I still haven't heard from Mazda, I'm trying to stay positive and hopeful. As well as trying to be patient... I'll post whenever I hear from them.

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Okay so time for an update. After 2 weeks I finally got a reply from the service manager this morning... He actually woke me up. But either way its good news and signs of progression, he told me that Mazda HQ acknowledged that the engine has low compression, but they want to try a few things to try to improve it before they approve a new engine (obviously). The service manager told me that my 8 hasn't had the latest PCM flash, they want to update it and run a tsb (I imagine zoom cleaner, but I had just woken up and forgot to ask which TSB). From what I've read zoom cleaner and seafoam all help decarb the engine, but it pretty much is a temporary fix for a failing engine. My concern is if the zoom cleaner decarbs the engine pretty well, and they are able to obtain slightly higher passing compression numbers and deny a new engine...

I guess my question is, what is the chance of this actually happening? And how often Mazda actually gets away without replacing a failing engine by using zoom cleaner or whatever else they try?

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Another update. Dropped off my 8 at my dealer to have the reflash done and the loss of power tsb done. I found out today that my 8 had never gotten the MSP16 reflash done it, which is kind of frustrating because when I called Mazda North America last year in October they told me the car has had all the latest flashes. After some reading, apparently the MSP16 is an important flash which increases the OMP, power, ignition... So after dropping it off, they called me telling me that my coils were not passing their tests and failing. I had bought new coils but wanted to save them for the new engine if I got approved, so I explained to them I had new coils and would drive over to the dealer to change them myself. Surprised I finished in about 20-30 mins, I decided to test drive the car. I already felt a difference, but I'm not sure if the improvement I'm feeling is because of the coils or the flash, or maybe a combination of both? I guess it's good news, but I was hoping for a new engine. Anyway they still have to do the zoom zoom cleaner, and whatever other tests they have to do.

Maybe the coils, reflash, and zoom zoom cleaner will bring my engine back to life? I feel like getting a new motor would cast away any future doubt I may have, should I feel bummed if they pull off improved compression numbers with my current motor or not?

Bladecutter

If your low compressions reading is caused by a sticking/carboned up apex seal, then yes, the zoom-zoom cleaning will increase the compression reading. Chances are, however, that's probably not going to pop the compression level over the needed mark.

As for the current improvement in power, yes, that was the coil change.
As was posted recently, during a dyno day, failing coils, wires and plugs that were switched out with brand new coils, wires, and plugs resulted in a 20 hp improvement. That's a difference anyone can feel.

And yes, I'm sure a fresh engine with all the updates and new bits will feel really, really good, in comparison to your current setup.

BC.

navywife202

I had a compression test done a few months ago because my engine flooded. The dealership told me the compression on both rotors were in the mid to low 50s and that it is supposed to be around 150. Is that accurate??

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Awesome news everyone! Mazda finished the last couple tests they had to do on my engine, and apparently it failed the barometrics pressure test, they didn't even have to get the final compression numbers. I got a phone call just a few minutes ago, it is official and a new engine will be arriving in 2-3 days!!

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Another update, dropped my car off this Monday at Mazda to get the new engine. Hopefully my car will be ready by this Friday! If not, definitely next week. The service manager was kind enough to offer me a car since he said it'd be done in three days... So at least in the mean while I get to enjoy a 2012 Mazda 6. I had to get some stuff from my car so they let me go into the garage. I got to see my car with the old engine pulled out as well as the transmission. I was pretty excited, this is the first time I've seen my own car pulled apart like that. Of course I got some pics of the old engine and tranny, as well as the new engine.

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

I got my car back this Monday and I all have to say is wow... It feels like a different car, I replaced my failing cat with a OBX cat delete, and I got an AEM cai. My car is running awesome and I'm really hoping I can make this engine last a goooooood while. I broke my engine in the first 100 miles using the mazdaspeed break in procedure (basically running it hard), after changing the oil I've been driving it normally with some redlines and will continue until a couple hundred more miles till I switch to synthetic. I'll also probably post a review of the OBX midpipe since there aren't too many, I'm really impressed by it. I thought it was going to be a drone machine, and would sound really raspy and bad. It's been the complete opposite, and it's been 3 days and I still don't have a check engine light from removing the cat. Long live the rotary!