Insignia

Any suggestions on where to look for the cause of this? For some reason my STOP fuse blows whenever I press the brake pedal. I have no LED bulbs except my front parking lamps, and my tail lamps are free of water.

Suggestions are needed!

Edit: Go to post #86...in many (most) cases it is the Trunk Lid ''small wiring loom'' failing, which requires replacement..ASH8.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

remove leds and see if that fixes the problem.. btw, do you have a led in the 3rd brake light???

beer

Insignia

3rd brake light had normal bulb. I removed ALL LEDs from the car including the ones in my maplights etc and it still happens.

Mazurfer

Strange........will think about it, but after what you said.........I would try this. It's not the map lights or the fact of LED's so forget that. However.........if you do try to just place an LED in the third brake light position as Swoope started to elude to...............you will get ABS and DCS/TCS lights on the dash, that third light is fickle and you'd have to get the load resistors right!

Anyway, you must have a short somwhere in the brake system, so do this.................take all bulbs out of the brake lights.......including third light. Apply brakes and see if it pops, then start putting in one bulb or LED at a time until you find it. It could be the socket or in rare cases a bulb can short out instead of opening up.

Dave

Insignia

I will try this when I get home tonight.

Insignia

Well now it gets weird...

I replaced the fuse and was going through the motions to test the individual sockets/bulbs, and the fuse never blew. Drove the car around for about 5 hours today and decided to give it a wash. Give it a quick rinse, and as I am pulling out and hit the brakes -POP- goes the fuse and the dreaded lights return.

I just had my tailights replaced a month ago due to moisture, and I am thinking that maybe moisture is shorting these out lights out now. There is NO visible moisture in the lens at all.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

that sounds about right..

beers

Insignia

Okay so I think i have narrowed it down. It must be a wiring issue as it blew the fuse again (today was raining). I took the bulbs out of the tail light and pressed the brake pedal, and the fuse went.

So this means that it is a wiring issue correct? I havent touched any wiring in the car ever. Where should I start the hunt? Keep in mind this ONLY happens when the car gets wet (during a rainstorm or after a car wash).

Mazurfer

It's most likely in one of the sockets in the brake lights or close by. It could be way up somewhere else, but that's where I would start. Actually see if you can narrow it down to one side or the other first. This may tell you it's at the brake light or somewhere else. I'll have to look up the wiring schematic to see just how they did it, but I'd still try to find which side.

Nubo

If you're lucky it might just be in the socket itself. Examine them for any corrosion or deposits that might be bridging the contacts.

Mazurfer

Okay....okay....so I didn't go that far and I probably should have, but I'm at work!
Thanks Nubo........that should help him now that he has a little more detail. If he had a meter and knew how to use it, it would help.......but we have to do what we can. Hope he gets some more fuses as the debug is gonna eat up a few.

Insignia

I have a multimeter and began doing some testing. So far all the sockets seem to check out.

If I press the brake pedal with the car OFF the fuse stays intact and my brake lights work fine. As soon as I turn the car on and press the brake pedal the fuse pops. What else is wired through that STOP fuse?

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Fairly simple circuit by itself, no other loads on it, but there are connections to the TCS, DSC and Auto Tranny, if you have 'em.

S

teknics

i have a feeling that when they replaced your lights they may have damaged one of the wires going to the bulbs which is now grounding/shorting out against the body of the car, thats why it will go away sometimes and other times it wont, if you get it to not blow out, or have a circuit testing circuit breaker, trying grabbing the wires going to the lights and moving them around against the body and such and see if it blows when you do that.

altho since you said it happened again after rinsing the car it may be bad light sockets.

kevin.

Mazurfer

Guess what bothers me here Kevin is............He says it won't blow with the car off and applying brakes, but only with the car on. If it was a short to the chassis then it really shouldn't matter if car is off or on. I think I would take a real good look at all the connectors and pins in them. But I still contend that he's gonna have to first troubleshoot it a side at a time, and now throw in whether it's really true about the car on/off thing..........becuase that actuall could lead back to the TCS/DCS etc. circuit as Stealth points out. This has the be pretty methodical to figure out where it is. I would start by removing all bulbs.....including the third brake light and try using the brakes with both the car off and on(several times) and then start adding bulbs. Once you kinda find out which leg, then you could hook up the meter and start moving wires around. That's would just be my approach, but you never know......we aren't really there and don't have all the data that he's learned sp far.

Insignia

Here is is todays results so far:

Car Off - No Bulbs - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Intact

Car On - No Bulbs - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Blows

This is all done with the car NOT moving and just sitting still. When the fuse does stay intact (roads/cry dry) the TCS and DSC all be have normal as does the ABS.

Could it be possible that it is a ABS issue? Where are the ABS sensors on the wheels?

Mazurfer

Before I try to answer anything else............am I to assume that in the first group you didn't touch the brake pedal at all, and in the second group you did? And double check that what you said about car on and off is also correct above. Just looking for conformation.

Insignia

I am an idiot, and sorry for the confusion. Here is the correct info:


Car Off - No Bulbs - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Intact

Car On - No Bulbs - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Blows

This is all done with the car NOT moving and just sitting still. When the fuse does stay intact (roads/cry dry) the TCS and DSC all be have normal as does the ABS. I am pressing the brake pedal in BOTH cases car on and car off.

Could it be possible that it is a ABS issue? Where are the ABS sensors on the wheels?

Mazurfer

Okay.....now I can think about it some more. Will post back but probably not before tomorrow.

All we have really eliminated is the bulbs of course and them not causing the short in some strange manner. I need to really go look at the wiring diagrams now.

And...............you applied the brakes in each group right?

It didn't blow in second group until you applied brakes or did it go right away without touching brakes?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

disable the tc and dsc with a button push. also pull abs fuse.

see what happens..

beers

Insignia

No the fuse only blows when you touch the brakes. Also one thing I noticed is that it doesnt happen right as soon as you touch the pedal, but rather after you hold it for about 1-2 seconds.

Insignia

Going to try this today and will report back.

Mazurfer

Thanks Swoope, that was gonna be my next suggestion. I'm beginning to wonder if it's not in the ABS circuit or connectors somewhere? Will be interesting to see what happens when he tries that and then we will go from there. Could there just be moisture still trapped inside one of the ABS connectors somewhere......who knows........or just a bad connector? That may be the next step after we know about the above.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

ya know,

that just reminded me.

a diy for abs sensor or leveling sensor that would go bad and could be fixed by moding the connector.. i think h20 was teh issue..

beers

Insignia

Well is was an ABS connector issue. However instead of mucking around I just traded the car in. Thanks guys for all your help!