should there be a class action lawsuit--engines?
09-29-2009, 03:44 PM
#26
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No, there should not be a class action lawsuit, because that would erode support at Mazda for continuing to develop the rotary. Want Mazda to stop making rotary cars? Sue the **** out of them.
Mazda rotary vehicles shouldn't be looked at as "cars" in the sense that you would consider a honda accord or ford fusion a car. It should really be seen as as
"rotational otto-cycle powerplant proof of concept jr scientist play-kit" like you might buy from the back pages of popular mechanics. It just so happens that it comes with a shaft that can be used to turn wheels and a cage mounted on top where you can place your body. Beyond that, everything is pure gravy.
If you want the rotary you've got to put up with the rotary bs. If you want piston-level manufacturing accountability go buy a piston engine car.
Mazda rotary vehicles shouldn't be looked at as "cars" in the sense that you would consider a honda accord or ford fusion a car. It should really be seen as as
"rotational otto-cycle powerplant proof of concept jr scientist play-kit" like you might buy from the back pages of popular mechanics. It just so happens that it comes with a shaft that can be used to turn wheels and a cage mounted on top where you can place your body. Beyond that, everything is pure gravy.
If you want the rotary you've got to put up with the rotary bs. If you want piston-level manufacturing accountability go buy a piston engine car.
09-29-2009, 03:59 PM
#29
good discussion all and many good points.
I too really like this car --had my fill with recips and the rotary is just unique. + the chassis /steering/brakes are top notch.
Some had said that a class action would be just another nail in the casket so to speak. Thats probably true. Thats exactly what I would NOT want to happen. But, Mazda has had to replace a bunch of engines, there is no way around that? Keep all that info coming in!
I guess they did not listen to anyone because it took 5 yrs to make some common sense modifications. 5 years. And still some need to be made--but for whatever reason (prob business) they are not doing it. We still need clean oil being injected into the engine and we need more cooling.
Now with the economy and the auto enviroment being what it is --you can feel the RX8 getting killed off.
So you get a remanufactored engine--usually you have to pay some "additional cost" when the work is being done--you know coils, plugs--whatever they come up with even though it is agaisnt the very policy Mazda corp wrote. They you have a replacement that may or may not last to the 100K mark.
I dont know--it just doesnt feel right.
Why didnt they just do a recall and install the 3nd oil injector(it can be done), stronger oil pump and a few cooling mods? Say in 2007?
I am not pissed at Mazda --but i am dissappointed. This car could have really been something-----.
Other auto's have had engine problems--- but they were fixed or as someone said allowed a market correction to occur. That is what I had hoped wouldnt happen.
I dont want to start a class action--but being a little experienced in that area I can see the recipe for one existing if the number of replacements is what I am thinking it is. No I am NOT a lawyer and the only ones I know deal in health issues.
OD
I too really like this car --had my fill with recips and the rotary is just unique. + the chassis /steering/brakes are top notch.
Some had said that a class action would be just another nail in the casket so to speak. Thats probably true. Thats exactly what I would NOT want to happen. But, Mazda has had to replace a bunch of engines, there is no way around that? Keep all that info coming in!
I guess they did not listen to anyone because it took 5 yrs to make some common sense modifications. 5 years. And still some need to be made--but for whatever reason (prob business) they are not doing it. We still need clean oil being injected into the engine and we need more cooling.
Now with the economy and the auto enviroment being what it is --you can feel the RX8 getting killed off.
So you get a remanufactored engine--usually you have to pay some "additional cost" when the work is being done--you know coils, plugs--whatever they come up with even though it is agaisnt the very policy Mazda corp wrote. They you have a replacement that may or may not last to the 100K mark.
I dont know--it just doesnt feel right.
Why didnt they just do a recall and install the 3nd oil injector(it can be done), stronger oil pump and a few cooling mods? Say in 2007?
I am not pissed at Mazda --but i am dissappointed. This car could have really been something-----.
Other auto's have had engine problems--- but they were fixed or as someone said allowed a market correction to occur. That is what I had hoped wouldnt happen.
I dont want to start a class action--but being a little experienced in that area I can see the recipe for one existing if the number of replacements is what I am thinking it is. No I am NOT a lawyer and the only ones I know deal in health issues.
OD
09-29-2009, 04:31 PM
#30
It all comes down to the failure rate by year and by the updates done to the car.
If it's 5 out 100 cars that gets replaced then I suspect that is an acceptable rate to Mazda. If they were losing 80 out 100 cars then there would be a problem.
It can't be that bad if there already hasn't been such a lawsuit or major talk, with say, the BBB.
Now.. I do hope to god my car lasts to at least 100k miles. If it goes before then, well, Mazda better give me a new engine and I get a fresh car so to speak.
If it's 5 out 100 cars that gets replaced then I suspect that is an acceptable rate to Mazda. If they were losing 80 out 100 cars then there would be a problem.
It can't be that bad if there already hasn't been such a lawsuit or major talk, with say, the BBB.
Now.. I do hope to god my car lasts to at least 100k miles. If it goes before then, well, Mazda better give me a new engine and I get a fresh car so to speak.
09-29-2009, 10:28 PM
#32
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the BBB.
.I just wish we had some hard numbers so we would not have to speculate. I just love it when the the people who have not had engine replacements (yet) chime in about revving, premixing, oil type and weight, etc. I don't know what it takes to get people to see this engine is flawed.
Has Mazda fixed the issue finally? Maybe.
I freakin' love this car but very few people would stay with this car like we did after all the issues. I for one will seriously consider an 09+ if they can show serious mileage without the issues.
09-29-2009, 10:40 PM
#33
I would be scared a class action lawsuit regarding the pre 09 models would have backlash against all rotary engines in the future for mazda and could possibly take the rotary engine out o the picture, Since engine failure is sometimes attributed to poor maintenance and other times it seems just luck of the draw how could they prevent it from happening besides saying bye bye. I dont know if what im saying holds any water i would just fear it would have a very negative effect.
Let's take Microsoft for example, but more specifically the Xbox360. The 360 has a 54.2% failure rate. Within this 54.2%, a majority of them are experiencing the RROD(Red Ring Of Death) and the Xbox is overheating. When Microsoft repairs this product under warranty, they are only reapplying thermal paste and replacing parts if necessary, which isnt usually necessary in a majority of the cases. They do not have new parts that fix the problem. So what did Microsoft do? They extended the MFG warranty from 1yr to 3yrs. Microsoft has also release new chipsets to try to prevent the problem. They do not upgrade all of the xbox's that get repaired.
To the best of my knowledge, there has been a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for this and the extended mfg warranty is what fixed it. A lawsuit against the pre09 rotary's would do nothing but aid in the rotary's extinction.[/quote]
I dont understand why you would need to have a class action lawsuit...I have an 04 with 73k now on it which 20k I put on and the only problem I have is maybe a cracked motor mount, nothing major. With this extended warranty with the milage I put on my car now I'm looking at another year and a half of warranty coverage all teh way up to the 100k mark. I think mazda is definitely putting an effort into their support lines for the rotary engine and if my engine doesnt blow up before 100k then I definitely got my moneys worth and even if it does they will pay for it so what does it matter.
bringing up lawsuits against mazda for their rotary engine will do nothing but help put an end to it.....
bringing up lawsuits against mazda for their rotary engine will do nothing but help put an end to it.....
I agree with all of these peeps... We are here because we have a unique engine... without this we are nothing... how does the ole' quote go? "Round and Round not Up and Down" Hell the newer Rotary is already going to have a hard time selling because of the mpg's its going to get compared to engines at the time period... A lawsuit would do nothing but hurt the Rotary and PUT IT TO AN END
09-30-2009, 07:49 AM
#36
yall dont realize that the rotary engine(as in being offered in a new car) is in a death spiral now? It truely is a sad time.
I think Mazda had true bad planning with the rx8 release in 04. 1st the hp farce, now the engine reliability issue. Seems to me they could have done a better job of this. Hell they dont even have a magnet in the oil pan. 1st rotary offered without that.
I guess I always want people to do better, want them to learn (something MM and I actually agree on!)--its a fault of mine I suppose. I relaize what seems obvious to me may not to Mazda as a company, but thats not the way it should be?
Someone said what was causing the engine failure? Thats easy--its lubrication and heat issues---that is well accepted even by mazda.
Dont let the rx8 die, dont let the rotary die---!
I havent heard much feedback about the 09's---is the problem fixed? If it is then much reputation would be gained by releasing info on it.
Class action?---it may happen if the right person pursues this.
I think Mazda had true bad planning with the rx8 release in 04. 1st the hp farce, now the engine reliability issue. Seems to me they could have done a better job of this. Hell they dont even have a magnet in the oil pan. 1st rotary offered without that.
I guess I always want people to do better, want them to learn (something MM and I actually agree on!)--its a fault of mine I suppose. I relaize what seems obvious to me may not to Mazda as a company, but thats not the way it should be?
Someone said what was causing the engine failure? Thats easy--its lubrication and heat issues---that is well accepted even by mazda.
Dont let the rx8 die, dont let the rotary die---!
I havent heard much feedback about the 09's---is the problem fixed? If it is then much reputation would be gained by releasing info on it.
Class action?---it may happen if the right person pursues this.
09-30-2009, 10:59 AM
#37
We have a pretty strong local club in NE Ohio... Our first member is just going through a possible engine replacement (2005 Shinka with 70k miles) Hemorrhaging Oil from the OMP and main E-shaft seal. He does autocross frequently with a co-driver and tracks occasionally.
Other than that, my '04 has 70k on it and I premix and have done the mazmart waterpump + thermostat and I'm looking to manually control my fans and have the RB analog temp gauge... I'm trying to take cooling and lubrication into my own hands (teehee) to prevent any problems. Clearly, the factory didn't do a good enough job addressing these problems.
To replace a faulty engine with a new engine that has the same flaws sounds like the primary issue. Another point that was mentioned was the failure rate: 8 of 100, etc... but over what time frame? It sounds like many RX8s won't make it to 100k without a replacement. So, again, its the failure rate per engine at 80k miles we'll say?
I too love the way the rotary feels: smooth, distict sounds, etc. But it doesn't get mazda off the hook for not properly addressing the problems of the Renesis.
This is why I feel we should watch the 09's. Did Mazda accept the failure rate or did they really make improvements to the design in terms of cooling and Oil injection and lubrication?
My thoughts...
Other than that, my '04 has 70k on it and I premix and have done the mazmart waterpump + thermostat and I'm looking to manually control my fans and have the RB analog temp gauge... I'm trying to take cooling and lubrication into my own hands (teehee) to prevent any problems. Clearly, the factory didn't do a good enough job addressing these problems.
To replace a faulty engine with a new engine that has the same flaws sounds like the primary issue. Another point that was mentioned was the failure rate: 8 of 100, etc... but over what time frame? It sounds like many RX8s won't make it to 100k without a replacement. So, again, its the failure rate per engine at 80k miles we'll say?
I too love the way the rotary feels: smooth, distict sounds, etc. But it doesn't get mazda off the hook for not properly addressing the problems of the Renesis.
This is why I feel we should watch the 09's. Did Mazda accept the failure rate or did they really make improvements to the design in terms of cooling and Oil injection and lubrication?
My thoughts...
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