should there be a class action lawsuit--engines?
09-29-2009, 08:56 AM
#1
should there be a class action lawsuit--engines?
I have been thinking about this. I dont have figues but I suspect a very high engine failure rate on the pre 09 models in comparison to other types of engines.
I dont think Mazda can fix it, they know it and to try and prevent a lawsuit they announced the 8 yr 100K engine warrenty.
I would like to open this for discussion. Just because they increased the warrenty does not make them immune to legal action.
How can or can we get a number on the engine fail rate?
What would be a fair response from Mazda ( i do like this car and I am keeping it no matter!)?
I know here in Ga --in just out little car club--very well maintained cars have had engines replaced ---5 cars so far with one car needing 2 engines. Others seem to be headed in that direction.
Premixing is NOT solving the problem for us as all of us Ga cc members premix and the engines still dont last.
I am not trying to round up a vilgilante group---just discuss the issues and lets see how wide spread this is?
olddragger
I dont think Mazda can fix it, they know it and to try and prevent a lawsuit they announced the 8 yr 100K engine warrenty.
I would like to open this for discussion. Just because they increased the warrenty does not make them immune to legal action.
How can or can we get a number on the engine fail rate?
What would be a fair response from Mazda ( i do like this car and I am keeping it no matter!)?
I know here in Ga --in just out little car club--very well maintained cars have had engines replaced ---5 cars so far with one car needing 2 engines. Others seem to be headed in that direction.
Premixing is NOT solving the problem for us as all of us Ga cc members premix and the engines still dont last.
I am not trying to round up a vilgilante group---just discuss the issues and lets see how wide spread this is?
olddragger
09-29-2009, 09:06 AM
#2
WAH WAH WAH
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I would be scared a class action lawsuit regarding the pre 09 models would have backlash against all rotary engines in the future for mazda and could possibly take the rotary engine out o the picture, Since engine failure is sometimes attributed to poor maintenance and other times it seems just luck of the draw how could they prevent it from happening besides saying bye bye. I dont know if what im saying holds any water i would just fear it would have a very negative effect.
09-29-2009, 09:12 AM
#4
He's as bad as Can
A class action will only get us a $500 coupon off our next Mazda and millions in fees to a few lawyers. Why do you feel the 8/100 doesn't get Mazda off the hook? Mazda changed the warranty twice on the early 8's and then changed what is believed to be the main cause (OMP) on the 09's. If I was on the jury it looks to me like Mazda was trying to help.
My 8 went 110,000 miles before I had a engine change, I admit I might have a different opinion if mine went before 50,000
My 8 went 110,000 miles before I had a engine change, I admit I might have a different opinion if mine went before 50,000
Last edited by expo1; 09-29-2009 at 09:14 AM.
09-29-2009, 09:13 AM
#5
I am on my 2nd engine and its running strong *knock on wood*
Im not so sure why my 1st engine died, Mazda took it back
, but I have a feeling if I premix & fuxk the 5w20 on day 1, my engine might still live ...
There are lots of Renesis Blowing up in China, but its mainly due to crappy quality gas, Cuz in China, you NEVER get what the Octane rating is @ the pump, its always a few points lower. In Hong Kong they dont have Gas Quality problem, but Heat killed a few of them.
So ... its gonna be hard to start a lawsuit like this ...
Im not so sure why my 1st engine died, Mazda took it back
, but I have a feeling if I premix & fuxk the 5w20 on day 1, my engine might still live ... There are lots of Renesis Blowing up in China, but its mainly due to crappy quality gas, Cuz in China, you NEVER get what the Octane rating is @ the pump, its always a few points lower. In Hong Kong they dont have Gas Quality problem, but Heat killed a few of them.
So ... its gonna be hard to start a lawsuit like this ...
Last edited by nycgps; 09-29-2009 at 09:15 AM.
09-29-2009, 10:56 AM
#6
umm... how many people in So Cal got a new engine. None that I know of except rotory rasp.
That's one in a hundred. 65 of them were at 7 stock.
If were talking bad coils that's a different issue.
That's one in a hundred. 65 of them were at 7 stock.
If were talking bad coils that's a different issue.
09-29-2009, 11:18 AM
#7
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Simple answer: NO.
09-29-2009, 11:30 AM
#8
like i said i dont have any figues on how many have been replaced.
How many people out there actually KNOW someone that has had their engines replaced---not just read about it on the net/forum etc? Actually know of it being done?
i personnally know 10 replacements---5 in our club and 5 more through my dealership in my hometown. (not a big one).
OD
How many people out there actually KNOW someone that has had their engines replaced---not just read about it on the net/forum etc? Actually know of it being done?
i personnally know 10 replacements---5 in our club and 5 more through my dealership in my hometown. (not a big one).
OD
09-29-2009, 11:33 AM
#9
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engine was replaced
you were made whole
no lawsuit
end of story...
you were made whole
no lawsuit
end of story...
09-29-2009, 11:52 AM
#10
no thats not the end of the story---true the engine was replaced but was the flaw that made the engine need replaceing fixed? I dont see that.
SO does that mean another engine will be needed soon? No one is saying. Replacing a broke product with a design flaw with the same product is not fixing the problem.
If there is a higher than normal percentage of failures and the flaw is not corrected then the resale value etc is all affected. So maybe this is not the end of the story. We just need the numbers to make anykind of educated decision.
olddragger
SO does that mean another engine will be needed soon? No one is saying. Replacing a broke product with a design flaw with the same product is not fixing the problem.
If there is a higher than normal percentage of failures and the flaw is not corrected then the resale value etc is all affected. So maybe this is not the end of the story. We just need the numbers to make anykind of educated decision.
olddragger
09-29-2009, 12:10 PM
#11
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olddragger, tell me exactly what caused all of the rotary engines to fail? On the 09 version, Mazda has added "features" that will help the engine last longer. They are simply improving their product.
Let's take Microsoft for example, but more specifically the Xbox360. The 360 has a 54.2% failure rate. Within this 54.2%, a majority of them are experiencing the RROD(Red Ring Of Death) and the Xbox is overheating. When Microsoft repairs this product under warranty, they are only reapplying thermal paste and replacing parts if necessary, which isnt usually necessary in a majority of the cases. They do not have new parts that fix the problem. So what did Microsoft do? They extended the MFG warranty from 1yr to 3yrs. Microsoft has also release new chipsets to try to prevent the problem. They do not upgrade all of the xbox's that get repaired.
To the best of my knowledge, there has been a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for this and the extended mfg warranty is what fixed it. A lawsuit against the pre09 rotary's would do nothing but aid in the rotary's extinction.
Let's take Microsoft for example, but more specifically the Xbox360. The 360 has a 54.2% failure rate. Within this 54.2%, a majority of them are experiencing the RROD(Red Ring Of Death) and the Xbox is overheating. When Microsoft repairs this product under warranty, they are only reapplying thermal paste and replacing parts if necessary, which isnt usually necessary in a majority of the cases. They do not have new parts that fix the problem. So what did Microsoft do? They extended the MFG warranty from 1yr to 3yrs. Microsoft has also release new chipsets to try to prevent the problem. They do not upgrade all of the xbox's that get repaired.
To the best of my knowledge, there has been a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for this and the extended mfg warranty is what fixed it. A lawsuit against the pre09 rotary's would do nothing but aid in the rotary's extinction.
09-29-2009, 12:15 PM
#12
wankel my wanker
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When a company tries to rectify a problem it has found like Mazda has and takes steps with 8/100 increase. Should that company be sued for admitting and addressing their problems? My thinking just doesn't go there only in the US do we associate admitting to a mistake + addressing mistake = we sue you $$$. Shouldn't we especially in these times be giving credit to those companies that do the stand up to their errors and address their problems. There by allowing those companies to continue to build innovative products to move the economy forward. Or are we the the generation that will continue to allow lawyers to limit innovation and slow progress? I understand if company is hiding their head in sand or we feel the company is not doing right by the people in addressing a know problem then legal action is justifiable. So the question should be 'is Mazda doing enough for this know problem?'
My .02 cents in todays economy .01 or sue me... lawyer gets my .01 cent and your cents.
My .02 cents in todays economy .01 or sue me... lawyer gets my .01 cent and your cents.
09-29-2009, 12:19 PM
#13
wankel my wanker
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I had the infamous Quad 4 engine by GM lasted 88,000 miles 5 years '93-'98. Could not be fixed leaking gaskets even replaced would never stop leaking. They knew it was junk engine no replacement no extended warranty. Just the typical GM attitude we don't care we're big you can't do jack to us. I guess we can! The market has clever way of correcting BS products.
09-29-2009, 12:27 PM
#14
I dont understand why you would need to have a class action lawsuit...I have an 04 with 73k now on it which 20k I put on and the only problem I have is maybe a cracked motor mount, nothing major. With this extended warranty with the milage I put on my car now I'm looking at another year and a half of warranty coverage all teh way up to the 100k mark. I think mazda is definitely putting an effort into their support lines for the rotary engine and if my engine doesnt blow up before 100k then I definitely got my moneys worth and even if it does they will pay for it so what does it matter.
bringing up lawsuits against mazda for their rotary engine will do nothing but help put an end to it.....
bringing up lawsuits against mazda for their rotary engine will do nothing but help put an end to it.....
09-29-2009, 02:05 PM
#18
like i said i dont have any figues on how many have been replaced.
How many people out there actually KNOW someone that has had their engines replaced---not just read about it on the net/forum etc? Actually know of it being done?
i personnally know 10 replacements---5 in our club and 5 more through my dealership in my hometown. (not a big one).
OD
How many people out there actually KNOW someone that has had their engines replaced---not just read about it on the net/forum etc? Actually know of it being done?
i personnally know 10 replacements---5 in our club and 5 more through my dealership in my hometown. (not a big one).
OD
nah just kidding..... butt it will be nice if we got more statistics.
I would not sue................
09-29-2009, 02:09 PM
#19
09-29-2009, 02:30 PM
#20
09-29-2009, 02:48 PM
#21
Aahhh the old American way...Sue! Sue! Sue! 
If you do not trust the car, sell it and get something else...
Mazda has made good on the problems with the engines...
I have an 04 that got one of the first rounds of replacements (47K Miles) and motor was shipped from Japan. I now have 103k miles and runs strong, no premixing 5w30 oil and Supreme Gas.
My brother has an 05 that was replaced at 50k miles
We just bought my wife an 04 in August and had it 2 weeks and the engine was replaced (57k miles)
all 3 of us got rentals from the dealership during the time our cars were being repaired...
I absolutely love this car and plan on trading in for another one next year. Looking for a later model with low miles. From what I can tell not many 04 05 s that have NOT had the engine replaced...
09-29-2009, 03:03 PM
#22
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A class action will only get us a $500 coupon off our next Mazda and millions in fees to a few lawyers.
Also, while the Cali group has had good luck, I can tell you personally I know five or six (oh wait 7 including cornholio's yellow) San Antonio people that have had engines replaced and two of us are on our third engine. In addition, every time I have had my engine replaced there has been at least two other 8's in their getting new engines. So please don't try and act like engine replacements are a small number and they are not limited to 2004 models either (two of the locals have 2005's one of which is on his third). A little birdy here at the dealer I go too told me they have done almost 100 engine replacements since 2004. That's 100 replacements at one dealer in a city with five Mazda dealers.
Not to mention, there have been failures of engines that have been premixed and ran higher weight oil form the beginning. Too bad we couldn't see tear down pics of those engines.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 09-29-2009 at 03:11 PM.
09-29-2009, 03:24 PM
#23
He's as bad as Can
A debate on a class action about the snapping clutch pedals would be a more interesting. I would support that and the safety factor would be a plus for the owners side.
