TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

You have to take the trans out any way so just unbolt and drop the entire thing rather than d1ck around with the starter. You can then address the starter hangup from the front side of the open bellhousing end. .

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The bellhousing-to-engine bolt under the starter flange is the part that makes that not quite as simple as it sounds. I mentioned above how I'm going to try to see if I can get the transmission off anyway.

Agreed that if the transmission is off, the starter is no longer a difficult issue.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

If the starter is out an inch or more you have cleared the flywheel.

Option B:




the metal flap to the far right should give you access.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

That's the top rear of the engine block right? (I assume you are referring to the black plate)

Awesome, thanks. I'm going to give that a try.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Ok, too long of a shot for it to work. I have to remove the oil filter/fittings to get to that, they sit right over that bolt.


Ground is still soaked (snow melt) but going to start disassembling the starter.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Starter motor end removed (the black part in the middle). The base is still attached to the flange, and I haven't figured out how to release the gearing mechanism yet. The change in mass makes it easier to move around however, and I got it wiggled out just enough to reach this hole in the base:


However, compare to the where it is in relation to the gear pocket, and I don't think I'm going to be able to use it for anything useful. Grabbing wires and stuff that I might be able to use to run up through there and see what happens.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Transmission is out, well, mostly. It is under the car against a support brace, no longer attached to the engine. I've still got to wrestle it out of the way so I can work on the clutch.

Preliminary glances showed the flywheel intact, though the teeth banged up a bit here and there.

Pictures will be incoming shortly.

I snapped this one to show the environment I'm working in

Parking our van across the end of the driveway to visually shield the fact that the 8 is on jacks and discourage potential hooligans earned us a $100 parking ticket for "parking on the sidewalk" last night.

Although, the sidewalk ends at our driveway from one direction, doesn't continue on the other, and I'm pretty sure the statute is against "parking on public sidewalks", but I know from prior run-ins with the city that I am responsible for everything up to the curb, which means even the sidewalk here is private property.

Ah well, will fight that another day.

wrightcomputing

iTrader: (5)

I think the best option now would be to remove the bell housing, undo the bolt behind the starter enough to get a hacksaw in and cut that bolt then you can remove the transmission and it will only cost a few $$$ to replace the bolt. You can just drill the rest of the bolt out or get it out using mole grips etc.

^^Posted at the same time as post above, hope you get it sorted out.^^

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Ok, picture time, and I seriously need expert advice here to figure out what is going on before I remove the clutch.


The starter is mangled heavily. How this happened on a pedal-in 7,500rpm shift (before I pulled it out of 2nd gear), I have no idea. Something had to have let go, and I can't see how that could have been the starter. I again repeat, my clutch pedal assembly is still intact, no damage, no broken welds, no side to side flex. Pre-disassembly, it just had too little resistance.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The release bearing around the input shaft is very difficult to turn by hand, contrast to the new one in the Exedy box. Nothing appears to be missing however:



There is a thin metal 'something' wrapped around the starter gear.


This appears to have originally been riveted above the starter opening on the side of the bellhousing across another opening? There is a gouge on the bottom side of this opening.



You can see from the previous picture and this one, there are little gouge marks covering the inside of the bellhousing in all directions, shrapnel impact marks I am guessing.


And probably some of the culprits of those, laying in a pile at the bottom. I'm sure they gathered there from the effort of removing the transmission

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Ouch, how does the flywheel look? Maybe the starter gear got loose or something.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Oh, the engine now turns over by hand as normally expected without any issues or drama. I'm guessing that the flywheel teeth were catching on that metal bit that is wrapped around the starter gear/nose.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I dunno man, take the clutch off looks like part of it could have broke loose on the inside and fell through somehow.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

A few of the teeth have impact marks on them, but in all it looks fine. No missing teeth, none bent out of shape, etc...

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed, something snapped internally to cause this damage, and the release bearing, while clearly in need of replacing, appears to be intact.

Karack

that is a strange one. in any event i would just disassemble everything and inspect it thoroughly and replace the whole clutch kit. that shield will obviously not be an issue in the future, heh.

i wouldn't bang head on the wall over it for too long, even a lose dowel on the pressure plate could have grabbed the shield and ripped it off and lodged it right into the starter nosecone.

blackenedwings

Geez, that is some serious carnage Mike... I hope you get it sorted out. I do NOT envy you the task of working on this in this weather.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I don't envy myself either Keep having to take breaks to get my hands warm. Even with a heater out there and gloves, all the cold metal and dropping temps isn't helping.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Clutch disc itself appears to have shattered.






3 of the 4 springs are completely loose, i found a couple half-rings of metal, like they were the spring washers or something. They are probably the shrapnel that was inside the bellhousing.


Flywheel appears fine. Everything is tight, rotates smoothly. The metal face doesn't appear to have any gouges or damage. Teeth are fine.




So I guess I chalk this up to the severe side of possibilities when a clutch disc eventually wears out? I have some material left, although admittedly not all that much

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Starter out. The metal bits were NOT wrapped around the gear or shaft. They were just sliced into the housing of the starter itself. Think "a piece of straw in a tornado".

Sheer luck on my part apparently.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Does anyone know if this starter is going to be safe to use? If not long term, temporary while I wait for a new starter to get shipped in?

I can't find any damage to the shaft or gear itself. Just the housing.

Karack

i kind of figured it was part of the clutch as i haven't noticed any shields inside the bellhousing but figured it would have been apparent before pulling it apart. at any rate you found your answer.

starter is up in the air, the strongest points have been compromised but i would try it out for temporary use anyways. worst case the head breaks while attempting to start and rounds the ring gear off slightly but those gear teeth are pretty durable.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

If the damage is limited to what we see in the above photos, I would think that you could use it at least temporarily.

I've been there with my clutch disk on my RX7. Except, I ripped the clutch friction surface completely off. As long as you've gone this far, have you thought about a lightweight flywheel. You won't regret it.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Thought about it? yes. Want it? yes. Can afford it right now? not at all.

Some other day. Maybe 180k?

Working on re-assembling everything, though won't be able to go much longer due to temperature.

Karack

meh, lightweight flywheels have their purpose but if you drive in the city a fair amount sometimes it is regrettable pulling away from every stop. i dislike it in my FC which isn't all that heavy but the series 4 turbo engines are quite doggy off the line anyways so it might not be so bad in the 8.

i haven't driven an 8 with the lightweight flywheel yet so i shouldn't have even commented.