Saga of Bad Cat and Mazda's inaction
02-27-2007, 02:28 PM
#26
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Originally Posted by nycgps
but I guess they asked so much because CATs are expensive and its costing Mazda a fortune so they're more careful on CAT replacements now.
meh ... but what do I know
02-27-2007, 02:39 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Spin9k
I think the silliness is this... Mazda can authorize dealers to spend all this time on perhiperal work and tests and spend considerable money trying to make a bad CAT into something else, BUT they won't spend the 1/2 hr labor time it takes to drop a CAT and peer into the end to visually see if thats the problem IN THE 1st PLACE. If they did that 1st, either confirmed or eliminated the CAT, it would (seemingly) make a heck of a lot more sense.
meh ... but what do I know
meh ... but what do I knowJust like computer coders these days, they depend way too much on the complier to find errors for them.
02-27-2007, 10:56 PM
#31
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
The kar is at a more-local maz dealer now; the mech who was looking at it while I was leaving said he'd found one spark-plug boot 'not on all the way' and 11 misfire episodes. He was removing the cat; will finish it up tomorrow.
02-27-2007, 11:24 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by dmp
Mazda Tech line called today:
"As a gesture of GOOD WILL we'll agree to authorize having the cat removed and visually inspected, and tested further. Now, keep in mind, Mazda considers your dyno test as NOT valid; and would dismiss ANY attempt to have a car repaired based on a test such as that."
(sigh)
"As a gesture of GOOD WILL we'll agree to authorize having the cat removed and visually inspected, and tested further. Now, keep in mind, Mazda considers your dyno test as NOT valid; and would dismiss ANY attempt to have a car repaired based on a test such as that."
(sigh)
"You bringed Feds into it. Now our ***** in vice because they do not take manure like most customer. We fix, ok? Not because anything wrong. We just good guys that way. We also ignore your evidence. Make sure we don't have to fix other cars in future."
02-27-2007, 11:55 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by nycgps
It all goes back to the *Techs today depends on Computers too much*
Just like computer coders these days, they depend way too much on the complier to find errors for them.
Just like computer coders these days, they depend way too much on the complier to find errors for them.
02-28-2007, 06:17 AM
#35
the WANKEL made me do it
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Originally Posted by nycgps
It all goes back to the *Techs today depends on Computers too much*
Just like computer coders these days, they depend way too much on the complier to find errors for them.
Just like computer coders these days, they depend way too much on the complier to find errors for them.
Understand that if the tech used common sense and it somehow didn't fix the problem, it would be their own ***.
*A lesson in Job Security*
02-28-2007, 11:26 AM
#36
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
WOW
Just got off the phone with Russ Dunmire Maz in Tacoma:
"This is Randy from Russ Dunmire: We're going to NOT only replace the cat - which has a cracked and plugged catalyst, we're also going to replace all four coils and spark plug wires, too! I think we can get it fixed for you by tomorrow!"
Don't give in people. Don't Settle. Never take NO for an answer.
Just got off the phone with Russ Dunmire Maz in Tacoma:
"This is Randy from Russ Dunmire: We're going to NOT only replace the cat - which has a cracked and plugged catalyst, we're also going to replace all four coils and spark plug wires, too! I think we can get it fixed for you by tomorrow!"
Originally Posted by First Maz Service Dept
"No...The Cat is FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!!! REALLYY!!!!"
Last edited by dmp; 02-28-2007 at 11:44 AM.
02-28-2007, 12:05 PM
#37
Power!!
Nice...very nice. victory is yours!! Glad to hear you found a decent shop that is going to take care of you. Now you'll have to come to the Sunday drive on the 18th.
dmp
Mazda Service
dmp
Mazda Service
02-28-2007, 12:07 PM
#38
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by shaunv74
Nice...very nice. victory is yours!! Glad to hear you found a decent shop that is going to take care of you. Now you'll have to come to the Sunday drive on the 18th.
dmpMazda Service
dmp
Mazda Service:D
I'll be in Virgina/DC for the month of March
02-28-2007, 12:25 PM
#39
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
Grats dmp!!!! 
<--- this is dmp doing the "happy dance" after hearing the good news.
<--- this is dmp doing the "happy dance" after hearing the good news.
02-28-2007, 12:30 PM
#40
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Jedi54
Grats dmp!!!! <--- this is dmp doing the "happy dance" after hearing the good news.
<--- this is dmp doing the "happy dance" after hearing the good news.I suppose I'm not super happy - I feel vindicated, however. But think about this - I had to spend MY time and MONEY diagnosis a problem because Maz didn't have the desire to ensure justice in my situation. I've had to run a car since December which was no faster on the freeway than the average hond. cvcc DX.
AT LEAST things should be taken care of before I leave the state for awhile.
02-28-2007, 04:18 PM
#41
dmp, you definitely have a right to be disgruntled at the least. I am not trying to defend Mazda, quite the contrary, but I do want to explain a bit as to why the dealer service techs are usually less-informed than they used to be.
For the past 7 years, maybe more, the domestic auto industry has been implementing ISO 9000(and subsequent updated versions) standards of operation. This includes every aspect of their operations and when I looked at the way the service manual is prepared and organized I am convinced this includes the dealership service departments, as well. BTW, the import industry has been doing this for longer and it started with a manufacturing process called "Kaizen" processes, which was named after the guy who invented them. Ever hear of the Japanese "just-in-time" concept? It was created by an American and first offered to them but the Japanese were far smarter than the Americans in licensing and implementing the process.
Anyway, part of the corporate benefit of instituting these processes was to also "dumb-down" the necessary skills of each task at hand. On the assembly line, which is where I work, any 6th grader would have the necessary mental skills to complete the assembly process of their job operation. The service department can be seen in the same way. The service tech. pulls a code and references a flow chart that tells them which parts to start swapping out. Because of this, modern techs have no need to fully understand WHY it is that things work the way they do. The tech only needs to understand the nomenclature in the manual and how to use the tools to replace the parts. Again, dumbing-down the processes.
This dumbing-down of processes saves money because nothing is a skilled-trade anymore.
For the past 7 years, maybe more, the domestic auto industry has been implementing ISO 9000(and subsequent updated versions) standards of operation. This includes every aspect of their operations and when I looked at the way the service manual is prepared and organized I am convinced this includes the dealership service departments, as well. BTW, the import industry has been doing this for longer and it started with a manufacturing process called "Kaizen" processes, which was named after the guy who invented them. Ever hear of the Japanese "just-in-time" concept? It was created by an American and first offered to them but the Japanese were far smarter than the Americans in licensing and implementing the process.
Anyway, part of the corporate benefit of instituting these processes was to also "dumb-down" the necessary skills of each task at hand. On the assembly line, which is where I work, any 6th grader would have the necessary mental skills to complete the assembly process of their job operation. The service department can be seen in the same way. The service tech. pulls a code and references a flow chart that tells them which parts to start swapping out. Because of this, modern techs have no need to fully understand WHY it is that things work the way they do. The tech only needs to understand the nomenclature in the manual and how to use the tools to replace the parts. Again, dumbing-down the processes.
This dumbing-down of processes saves money because nothing is a skilled-trade anymore.
02-28-2007, 04:44 PM
#42
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
This dumbing-down of processes saves money because nothing is a skilled-trade anymore.
02-28-2007, 05:57 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
dmp, you definitely have a right to be disgruntled at the least. I am not trying to defend Mazda, quite the contrary, but I do want to explain a bit as to why the dealer service techs are usually less-informed than they used to be.
For the past 7 years, maybe more, the domestic auto industry has been implementing ISO 9000(and subsequent updated versions) standards of operation. This includes every aspect of their operations and when I looked at the way the service manual is prepared and organized I am convinced this includes the dealership service departments, as well. BTW, the import industry has been doing this for longer and it started with a manufacturing process called "Kaizen" processes, which was named after the guy who invented them. Ever hear of the Japanese "just-in-time" concept? It was created by an American and first offered to them but the Japanese were far smarter than the Americans in licensing and implementing the process.
Anyway, part of the corporate benefit of instituting these processes was to also "dumb-down" the necessary skills of each task at hand. On the assembly line, which is where I work, any 6th grader would have the necessary mental skills to complete the assembly process of their job operation. The service department can be seen in the same way. The service tech. pulls a code and references a flow chart that tells them which parts to start swapping out. Because of this, modern techs have no need to fully understand WHY it is that things work the way they do. The tech only needs to understand the nomenclature in the manual and how to use the tools to replace the parts. Again, dumbing-down the processes.
This dumbing-down of processes saves money because nothing is a skilled-trade anymore.
For the past 7 years, maybe more, the domestic auto industry has been implementing ISO 9000(and subsequent updated versions) standards of operation. This includes every aspect of their operations and when I looked at the way the service manual is prepared and organized I am convinced this includes the dealership service departments, as well. BTW, the import industry has been doing this for longer and it started with a manufacturing process called "Kaizen" processes, which was named after the guy who invented them. Ever hear of the Japanese "just-in-time" concept? It was created by an American and first offered to them but the Japanese were far smarter than the Americans in licensing and implementing the process.
Anyway, part of the corporate benefit of instituting these processes was to also "dumb-down" the necessary skills of each task at hand. On the assembly line, which is where I work, any 6th grader would have the necessary mental skills to complete the assembly process of their job operation. The service department can be seen in the same way. The service tech. pulls a code and references a flow chart that tells them which parts to start swapping out. Because of this, modern techs have no need to fully understand WHY it is that things work the way they do. The tech only needs to understand the nomenclature in the manual and how to use the tools to replace the parts. Again, dumbing-down the processes.
This dumbing-down of processes saves money because nothing is a skilled-trade anymore.
02-28-2007, 06:52 PM
#44
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by lone_wolf025
I want to argue the point but the more I think of it the less arguement I have. While what you say is very true in many aspects of business, when it comes down to repair it only goes so far. You are right about the manuals and the abundant use of flow charts (which in my limited experience are 50% crap) I wonder what the point of educating a tech is then... I'm just flabbergasted by the truth of your statement...I've spent all kinds of time and effort learning the intricacies of the modern automobile's electrical and mechanical systems that it blows me away that some of the simplest methods I was taught are never used... And to think I used to want to be a tech too... Glad I'm going elsewhere...
You should move here and work at my maz dealr.
02-28-2007, 07:30 PM
#45
I dont care...
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Man, its dealers like that that give us a bad name. Its very simple: The problem "started" with the coils going bad. An engine missfire will destroy a cat very quickly because of unburned fuel entering the cat. I cant believe the original dealer didnt recognize the missfire codes!
Well, "on behalf of the entire Mazda service department network, I apologize."
Well, "on behalf of the entire Mazda service department network, I apologize."
02-28-2007, 09:13 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by dmp
You should move here and work at my maz dealr.
All this reminds me of something I say at the airport: Common sense isn't common here. The phrase common sense is an oxymoron implying people actually have the mental capacity to think for themselves rather than assume someone else will hand them the answer.
03-01-2007, 12:38 AM
#47
Originally Posted by otherside
Man, its dealers like that that give us a bad name. Its very simple: The problem "started" with the coils going bad. An engine missfire will destroy a cat very quickly because of unburned fuel entering the cat. I cant believe the original dealer didnt recognize the missfire codes!
Well, "on behalf of the entire Mazda service department network, I apologize."
Well, "on behalf of the entire Mazda service department network, I apologize."
yes,
you are correct.. i feel for you..
it should not be a tard fest... the best thing is i get along with my dealer and the reps are female and easy on the eyes..
beers
03-01-2007, 07:42 AM
#48
I think this particular problem is not inherent in just the automotive industry. I think it is a cultural one where we are encouraged to ignore the use of our own reasoning skills no matter the subject. Look at how many fools are held in high regard and we are told we should follow their examples. Media popularity somehow equates intellect.
03-01-2007, 08:23 AM
#49
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
I think it is a cultural one where we are encouraged to ignore the use of our own reasoning skills no matter the subject.
back to story.... Tried to make a simple crossover yesterday ... go to Radio Shack and try to buy a resistor and a NP capacitor.... sure they have them ... like six whole different ones...so I asked if they had crossovers.... no....or speakers....no..... or online more caps or resistor...no...
...there was a day when you could buy everything there you needed for projects....now it's batteries, cell phones and toys. Of course there are no stores within 50 miles that sell any of this component stuff anymore.... meh...
03-01-2007, 08:27 AM
#50
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Ok there was an answer... heehee...simply bought 2 double capacitance regular capacitors, tied the neg terminal together and made a NP of correct uf for my crossover... never let the bastards win one!
Sorry for rant, back on topic.
Sorry for rant, back on topic.