RX8 Engine Replacement - BAD NEWS
08-03-2005 | 11:40 AM
#126
BSG 75
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From: Virginia
I have read the thread and tried to keep up, but one thing I am not sure of is this:
It appears there is a significant problem with the engines on a lot of the cars. My question is - have we figured out yet whether this is a design flaw that will show itself on all the cars eventually? Or are there some of them that are going to be just fine?
So far, so good on my car. But I can't help having a small sense of dread. I have over 40,000 miles on the car and my warranty isn't going to last but a few more months.
It appears there is a significant problem with the engines on a lot of the cars. My question is - have we figured out yet whether this is a design flaw that will show itself on all the cars eventually? Or are there some of them that are going to be just fine?
So far, so good on my car. But I can't help having a small sense of dread. I have over 40,000 miles on the car and my warranty isn't going to last but a few more months.
08-03-2005 | 11:48 AM
#127
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No recall notice arrived for me yet. If they have to replace my engine or even hint that its a future possibility its off to something else, Honda S, Charger, MazdaSpeed turbocharged 6? I don't trust them to change the oil, let alone replace an engine.
08-03-2005 | 12:26 PM
#128
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From: Florida
This is an interesting thread but one thing keeps coming to my mind. Why should the air temperature affect the engines if the cars are not overheating? Or are they overheating?
I have done track events in my car in 90+ degree whether where the engine stays above 7000 for most of the time and I can't even see the guage move. The cooling system seems to be excellent. So if the cars are not overheating why is heat causing a problem?
I have done track events in my car in 90+ degree whether where the engine stays above 7000 for most of the time and I can't even see the guage move. The cooling system seems to be excellent. So if the cars are not overheating why is heat causing a problem?
08-03-2005 | 01:01 PM
#129
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From: portland oregon
this is only an issue for AT cars and only an issue for them in certain areas under certain conditions. there are less than 200 cars since teh problem reared its head. the is a problem with carbon lock and compression loss associated with driving the ATs at low revs and low speeds in high temp places- in other words Hot Crowded Places( for instance VEGAS) - where they have sold alot of ATs.
08-03-2005 | 01:05 PM
#130
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From: portland oregon
Originally Posted by SDB
So if the cars are not overheating why is heat causing a problem?
thats a good question and the crux of the situation really. but suprisingly i haven't given it much thought. i have been trying to find the cause of the issue thru sources and not thinking it thru. i think the question should be asked slightly differently-
why would the hot temps affect the standard power AT cars more than the MT cars? we get the correct answer for that and i think we'll get to the root of the problem.
08-03-2005 | 01:18 PM
#131
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what happens after engine is replaced?
I am having my engine replaced, it has 32K miles on it. Was told it would take about 3 days for the engine swap. My question is do they reset the odometer when the new engine is installed, and is the new engine warrantied for another 50K miles. If not I only have 18k left on warranty. I don't want to have problems with the second engine and be left out to dry. (FYI) always used 93 octain, live in south Texas, have manual transmition. Problems were, rough idle since 5-7K miles, and stalling at idle. The entire (no kidding) intake had already been replaced one piece at a time. Bought the car in July of 03 (week it came out). The crank shaft position sensor showed to be out of wack here recently, guess this was the last straw for my enging. It's in the shop now.
08-03-2005 | 01:46 PM
#132
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not ONLY AT's cars
Zoom
I saw your last post where you mentioned the engine problem "is only an issue with AT cars"
we'll, remember mine is a MANUAL trans.
And there are at least 4 more MANUAL trans cars over at Magic Mazda that have bad engines.
And that was when I last asked them about the AT vs MT issue over two weeks ago.
So possible more
It is not just the AT.......
Somethin' is funny wit deez engines......
Rob in Vegas
I saw your last post where you mentioned the engine problem "is only an issue with AT cars"
we'll, remember mine is a MANUAL trans.
And there are at least 4 more MANUAL trans cars over at Magic Mazda that have bad engines.
And that was when I last asked them about the AT vs MT issue over two weeks ago.
So possible more
It is not just the AT.......
Somethin' is funny wit deez engines......
Rob in Vegas
08-03-2005 | 02:24 PM
#133
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From: portland oregon
there is the possibility that they MT cars are mis-diagnosed and have a different issue or different cause. it could be the same issue as the ATs but even if it is its like 1mt for ever 50 or more AT engines. and again less than 200 cars to date. I agree there is something "funny" with the engines that broke. i disagree with the suggestion that there is soemthing wrong with all of even most of them.
08-03-2005 | 02:51 PM
#134
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From: Orlando, FL
It's interesting that Mazda hasn't removed any of the waiting engines for diagnosis and is just shipping whole engines. This tells me that Mazda knows what is wrong and it's more serious than carbon lock. If it's carbon lock, wouldn't they just set up a local shop to do some quick rebuilds?
Also, the dead engines seem to not only be in HOT places, but places that are DRY. Perhaps the dry is the key, like maybe the air cleaners/intake are letting a lot of abrasive material in and the engines are scored and ruined?
Also, the dead engines seem to not only be in HOT places, but places that are DRY. Perhaps the dry is the key, like maybe the air cleaners/intake are letting a lot of abrasive material in and the engines are scored and ruined?
08-03-2005 | 03:00 PM
#135
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From: toronto, canada
wow, this thread has turned into a giant soap opera!
Regardless though, the people who are complaining about not having their car we should be a little nicer to them.. It probaly isn't affecting every single 8 out there, remember there are still quite a few on the road..
But I have a question about general automotive stuff.. Do piston engines fail as well?? If so would everyone consider it to be approx. 1%??
I don't think this issue is as big as everyone is stating.. But for the few unlucky ones that doesn't really matter because at the end of the day it's them who are suffering and not us.. So don't worry, your car will be back soon enough! just make sure they compensate you for this, or at least try to get something.
Oh ya, I drive the hell out of my car and it's performed perfectly except for only 1 time in the whole 33k of driving did it sputter(it didn't stall). But it was -35c and the car was sitting on my driveway for a week and a half
MrJynx
Regardless though, the people who are complaining about not having their car we should be a little nicer to them.. It probaly isn't affecting every single 8 out there, remember there are still quite a few on the road..
But I have a question about general automotive stuff.. Do piston engines fail as well?? If so would everyone consider it to be approx. 1%??
I don't think this issue is as big as everyone is stating.. But for the few unlucky ones that doesn't really matter because at the end of the day it's them who are suffering and not us.. So don't worry, your car will be back soon enough! just make sure they compensate you for this, or at least try to get something.
Oh ya, I drive the hell out of my car and it's performed perfectly except for only 1 time in the whole 33k of driving did it sputter(it didn't stall). But it was -35c and the car was sitting on my driveway for a week and a half
MrJynx
08-03-2005 | 03:14 PM
#137
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Thanks Jynx.
Yes is sucks not having my 8
By the time I get it back it will have been somewhere between 30-35 days.
Rental car sucks.
No XM radio like I have in my 8.........sucks
And yes, some people here just have not been very supportive.
Some of the attitude here has been more like......."too bad dude! You just got unlucky with your 8. The rest of us are fine. Stop bothering us with your problems"
Problem with that is, I feel like I was not "unlucky"
Nor were the other 35+ people who have the 8's over at Magic waiting to get fixed.
We were not "lucky" we were just "early"
This is one hell of a party and everyone is going to be invited.
You just don't know it yet........
Rob in Vegas
Yes is sucks not having my 8
By the time I get it back it will have been somewhere between 30-35 days.
Rental car sucks.
No XM radio like I have in my 8.........sucks
And yes, some people here just have not been very supportive.
Some of the attitude here has been more like......."too bad dude! You just got unlucky with your 8. The rest of us are fine. Stop bothering us with your problems"
Problem with that is, I feel like I was not "unlucky"
Nor were the other 35+ people who have the 8's over at Magic waiting to get fixed.
We were not "lucky" we were just "early"
This is one hell of a party and everyone is going to be invited.
You just don't know it yet........
Rob in Vegas
08-03-2005 | 03:21 PM
#138
Glitchy Rotary Madness
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Originally Posted by Oktobernv
Thanks Jynx.
Some of the attitude here has been more like......."too bad dude! You just got unlucky with your 8. The rest of us are fine. Stop bothering us with your problems"
Problem with that is, I feel like I was not "unlucky"
Nor were the other 35+ people who have the 8's over at Magic waiting to get fixed.
We were not "lucky" we were just "early"
This is one hell of a party and everyone is going to be invited.
You just don't know it yet........
Rob in Vegas
Some of the attitude here has been more like......."too bad dude! You just got unlucky with your 8. The rest of us are fine. Stop bothering us with your problems"
Problem with that is, I feel like I was not "unlucky"
Nor were the other 35+ people who have the 8's over at Magic waiting to get fixed.
We were not "lucky" we were just "early"
This is one hell of a party and everyone is going to be invited.
You just don't know it yet........
Rob in Vegas
Whatever. I just got my popcorn to watch this soap opera unfold. You go right on predicting total failure of each and every 8 engine. We'll just keep driving and enjoying our cars.
08-03-2005 | 03:29 PM
#139
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How do you explain the FACT that we have 35+ problem RX'8 in Vegas alone?
Once again, did VEGAS just get really UNLUCKY and get a bad batch of RX'8 when they first went on sale
OR
OR
OR
did the "problem" just show up here SOONER because of the extreme weather we have?
which is it????
There IS A PROBLEM! FACT!
We just saw it FIRST
Rob in Vegas
Once again, did VEGAS just get really UNLUCKY and get a bad batch of RX'8 when they first went on sale
OR
OR
OR
did the "problem" just show up here SOONER because of the extreme weather we have?
which is it????
There IS A PROBLEM! FACT!
We just saw it FIRST
Rob in Vegas
08-03-2005 | 03:38 PM
#140
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From: toronto, canada
can't say it's a problem with all 8's, but considering the overly warm weather it could have contributed to the issues.
I can understand why your so vexed, i couldn't drive my car for 3 days and was tripping out.. However, you can't blindly say all 8's have a problem.
Do you know how many 8's were sold in vegas?? Ie, were 350 sold? 3500?? Or maybe 10,000?? Until we know the numbers we can't say "all 8's will be affected" because 35 vehicles which have shown this problem isn't a lot considering the number that have been sold..
I can understand why your so vexed, i couldn't drive my car for 3 days and was tripping out.. However, you can't blindly say all 8's have a problem.
Do you know how many 8's were sold in vegas?? Ie, were 350 sold? 3500?? Or maybe 10,000?? Until we know the numbers we can't say "all 8's will be affected" because 35 vehicles which have shown this problem isn't a lot considering the number that have been sold..
08-03-2005 | 03:43 PM
#141
Glitchy Rotary Madness
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It is *so* easy to push your buttons.
<subliminal_suggest> Maybe your *dealer* did something to the cars.... </subliminal_suggest>
We know no facts, other than AT cars in two locations show a statistically higher failure rate than they should. THAT IS THE ONLY FACT.
Anything *you* say, anything *I* say, and sadly, anything else said in here is just mere speculation. If you have other hard FACTS, please provide them -- WITH DOCUMENTATION. Just "I heared from a Dealer" doesn't cut it. Those scum would sell their own mother to make a profit. They'd lie to the Pope to save a buck on what they spend servicing cars.
You got facts? We want 'em. Properly documented. Otherwise, sit back, grab the popcorn, and wait for your car to be fixed, while others here still run around like headless chicken.
Got more to say to me? Take it to PM. This thread is allready wasted due to all the doomism.
<subliminal_suggest> Maybe your *dealer* did something to the cars.... </subliminal_suggest>
We know no facts, other than AT cars in two locations show a statistically higher failure rate than they should. THAT IS THE ONLY FACT.
Anything *you* say, anything *I* say, and sadly, anything else said in here is just mere speculation. If you have other hard FACTS, please provide them -- WITH DOCUMENTATION. Just "I heared from a Dealer" doesn't cut it. Those scum would sell their own mother to make a profit. They'd lie to the Pope to save a buck on what they spend servicing cars.
You got facts? We want 'em. Properly documented. Otherwise, sit back, grab the popcorn, and wait for your car to be fixed, while others here still run around like headless chicken.
Got more to say to me? Take it to PM. This thread is allready wasted due to all the doomism.
08-03-2005 | 04:52 PM
#142
My Rex goes to 11!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 773
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From: Arlington, VA
Originally Posted by Oktobernv
How do you explain the FACT that we have 35+ problem RX'8 in Vegas alone?
Once again, did VEGAS just get really UNLUCKY and get a bad batch of RX'8 when they first went on sale
OR
OR
OR
did the "problem" just show up here SOONER because of the extreme weather we have?
which is it????
There IS A PROBLEM! FACT!
We just saw it FIRST
Rob in Vegas
Once again, did VEGAS just get really UNLUCKY and get a bad batch of RX'8 when they first went on sale
OR
OR
OR
did the "problem" just show up here SOONER because of the extreme weather we have?
which is it????
There IS A PROBLEM! FACT!
We just saw it FIRST
Rob in Vegas
I have a manual
I don't like threads written like this cause it looks like a poem
The heat gets well over 100 here as well
My car runs great.
Dinh in DC.
08-03-2005 | 05:34 PM
#143
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From: Southeast of Seattle
If it is in fact a design flaw, I will bet that Mazda will provide extended warrantee protection for such a failure, somthing like extending the warrantee to 75,000 miles for that specific problem. They will be forced to do something like that to maintain their reputation and their customer satisfaction. They won't let their flagship car go down in flames (so to speak).
Ford instaledl a new engine in our van due to a head gasket design flaw even though the van was over the 3 year/50K mileage limit on the warrantee. It turned out that there were so many failures of that engine that they faced either a class action lawsuit and/or a massive PR fiasco so they extended the warrantee to cover that problem. Same situation with our present van, a Honda Odyssey. Honda is extending the warrantee on the transmissions to 100K miles because of a higher than expected failure rate.
So those of you RX-8 owners approaching the 50K miles limit, don't assume you'll be screwed if your engine fails. Mazda will handle this honorably.
Ford instaledl a new engine in our van due to a head gasket design flaw even though the van was over the 3 year/50K mileage limit on the warrantee. It turned out that there were so many failures of that engine that they faced either a class action lawsuit and/or a massive PR fiasco so they extended the warrantee to cover that problem. Same situation with our present van, a Honda Odyssey. Honda is extending the warrantee on the transmissions to 100K miles because of a higher than expected failure rate.
So those of you RX-8 owners approaching the 50K miles limit, don't assume you'll be screwed if your engine fails. Mazda will handle this honorably.
08-03-2005 | 06:08 PM
#144
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Originally Posted by Blue87Sport
. . . don't assume you'll be screwed if your engine fails. Mazda will handle this honorably.
To those who fear for their engines, hang in there... Stay informed on this still developing story and have some faith in the meantime.
To those not in fear for their engines, please understand that it's difficult to be in a position of not having all the answers (yet). Based on what we have learned so far (some of which is fact and some of which has yet to be proven and may never be proven), we have good reason to be concerned.
Hailing from crowded Sacramento in a two-week-old 2005 AT following the hottest (dry!) July on record...
08-03-2005 | 06:13 PM
#145
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Originally Posted by Dinhx8
I don't like threads written like this cause it looks like a poem.
08-03-2005 | 06:54 PM
#146
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From: Marietta,Ga
Originally Posted by MadDog
This thread is very frustrating to me. People are being reactionary to the point of trying to insight panic. People need to stop diagnosing this issue when they don't have all the facts. No one, not even (maybe especially) your local dealer has the facts except MANO. Posts like the above serve no useful purpose as there is no way to diagnose a problem like his with such limited information. Its quite inflammatory! I counted only 5 people on this thread that have reported knock+loss of power symptoms. I am sure that there are more who haven't spoken-up, and there is an established issue with the AT models, but this forum has 19,328 members. How big of a problem is it now? 3 people said their symptoms went away when they switched to 92+ octane - which is what Mazda told us to use in the first place. Consider also that forums such as these tend to make problems seem much worse than they actually are because we represent the most vocal segment of the population.
I for one, think that the Reneis is probably robust. People have ported it. People are putting turbos in and and running them untuned with detonation without issue. Those crazy guys in Puerto Rico have run it to over 300HP and have detonated until they got things tuned. Charles was detonating all over the place using nitrous. One guys has a combined nitrous and turbo. I ran my CZ waaaayy too lean many times and never damaged anything.
The seals on the Renesis are supposed to be better technology than the seals on any of the previous rotaries. Granted, the position of the ports makes it worse when a seal is blown - and maybe the position of the ports makes it vulnerable to some other things like heat. But its a little too early to be saying that 8's in hot climates are going to need a new engine every summer.
All I am saying is that people need to calm down. Inflammatory posts only insight panic when none is warrented. It is certainly something to be aware of, but people trading-in their RX-8's because of this is rediculous.
-MD
AMEN, so much armchair quarterbacking!!!! Atlanta is hot as blue f--k right now and so was Birmingham this past weekend yet the 10 or so 8's that made the trip performed beautifully. Oh yea and my a/c kicks *** too!
08-03-2005 | 07:17 PM
#147
Mad as a wet hen
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From: Big Blue State on the LEFT
Dunno if this helps anyone, but this isn't the first time Mazda has had to deal with a flawed batch of engines. In 1999 and some early 2000 model year Miatas, there was a problem with the thrust bearings on some (not all, or even most) engines... the wrong size bearing was used, and it would eventually work loose and fall out into the oil pan. This allowed the crankshaft to grind away at the engine block, and of course that meant the engine had to be replaced. Problem was, by the time the bearing failed, many people were already out of warranty -- but the defect had been there from day one, ticking like a time bomb.
When it became apparent that a significant number of engines might have the bad bearing, Mazda did end up providing replacement engines even for cars that were out of warranty (owners had to pay for labor and fluids). Owners had to speak up, though; Mazda never issued a recall, and unless you read the Miata forums and were aware of the problem, you probably ended up paying for a new engine.
The one good thing about the Miata engine problem was that you could check a car easily to see if it was affected by measuring the crankshaft endplay. If the car is in spec, it's got the correct bearing and should be fine. Out of spec -- only a matter of time before she goes.
Hopefully Mazda will figure out what's going wrong with these failed Renesis motors and come up with a way to determine which are bad and which aren't before they actually fail.
When it became apparent that a significant number of engines might have the bad bearing, Mazda did end up providing replacement engines even for cars that were out of warranty (owners had to pay for labor and fluids). Owners had to speak up, though; Mazda never issued a recall, and unless you read the Miata forums and were aware of the problem, you probably ended up paying for a new engine.
The one good thing about the Miata engine problem was that you could check a car easily to see if it was affected by measuring the crankshaft endplay. If the car is in spec, it's got the correct bearing and should be fine. Out of spec -- only a matter of time before she goes.
Hopefully Mazda will figure out what's going wrong with these failed Renesis motors and come up with a way to determine which are bad and which aren't before they actually fail.
08-03-2005 | 08:08 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by Aratinga
Dunno if this helps anyone, but this isn't the first time Mazda has had to deal with a flawed batch of engines. In 1999 and some early 2000 model year Miatas, there was a problem with the thrust bearings on some (not all, or even most) engines... the wrong size bearing was used, and it would eventually work loose and fall out into the oil pan. This allowed the crankshaft to grind away at the engine block, and of course that meant the engine had to be replaced. Problem was, by the time the bearing failed, many people were already out of warranty -- but the defect had been there from day one, ticking like a time bomb.
When it became apparent that a significant number of engines might have the bad bearing, Mazda did end up providing replacement engines even for cars that were out of warranty (owners had to pay for labor and fluids). Owners had to speak up, though; Mazda never issued a recall, and unless you read the Miata forums and were aware of the problem, you probably ended up paying for a new engine.
The one good thing about the Miata engine problem was that you could check a car easily to see if it was affected by measuring the crankshaft endplay. If the car is in spec, it's got the correct bearing and should be fine. Out of spec -- only a matter of time before she goes.
Hopefully Mazda will figure out what's going wrong with these failed Renesis motors and come up with a way to determine which are bad and which aren't before they actually fail.
When it became apparent that a significant number of engines might have the bad bearing, Mazda did end up providing replacement engines even for cars that were out of warranty (owners had to pay for labor and fluids). Owners had to speak up, though; Mazda never issued a recall, and unless you read the Miata forums and were aware of the problem, you probably ended up paying for a new engine.
The one good thing about the Miata engine problem was that you could check a car easily to see if it was affected by measuring the crankshaft endplay. If the car is in spec, it's got the correct bearing and should be fine. Out of spec -- only a matter of time before she goes.
Hopefully Mazda will figure out what's going wrong with these failed Renesis motors and come up with a way to determine which are bad and which aren't before they actually fail.
I think they narrowed that down to one production day in the engine plant. A worker put the thrust bearings in backwards.
08-03-2005 | 08:44 PM
#149
Glitchy Rotary Madness
Joined: Jul 2003
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Re: The NB Miata #4 Thrust Bearing issue:
I remember that. It got pretty hairy in miata.net with all the doomists saying the NB was fatally flawed (well, it was.. it didn't have barndoors.. )
If Mazda tries that stunt (the having the owner have to pony up cash to get the engine replaced) with this car, it'll be the last Mazda I ever bought. Even if mine isn't affected. It's a matter of principle.
Why should the consumer have to pay for a manufacturer's mistake? Paying labor + fluids is not acceptable. They screwed up the motor, they replace it gratis.
If they even remotely seem like they're gonna do the same thing in this case, well, Mazda, I hope you're reading:
I'll trade my 8 for a Cayman.
So play nice. Play nice, and I'll buy the next rotary car. Screw the pooch, and Stuttgart gets my dollars.
I'm hoping the way Mazda handled the #4 bearing issue on the NB Miata was Ford-induced. There's new management at Mazda now, unlike those days -- a Japenese Mazda veteran runs the show now, not a Ford bean-counter. So I'm hoping the 8 engine issue will be handled, as another poster put it, honorably.
You readin' this, Mazda? I hope you are.
I remember that. It got pretty hairy in miata.net with all the doomists saying the NB was fatally flawed (well, it was.. it didn't have barndoors..
)If Mazda tries that stunt (the having the owner have to pony up cash to get the engine replaced) with this car, it'll be the last Mazda I ever bought. Even if mine isn't affected. It's a matter of principle.
Why should the consumer have to pay for a manufacturer's mistake? Paying labor + fluids is not acceptable. They screwed up the motor, they replace it gratis.
If they even remotely seem like they're gonna do the same thing in this case, well, Mazda, I hope you're reading:
I'll trade my 8 for a Cayman.
So play nice. Play nice, and I'll buy the next rotary car. Screw the pooch, and Stuttgart gets my dollars.
I'm hoping the way Mazda handled the #4 bearing issue on the NB Miata was Ford-induced. There's new management at Mazda now, unlike those days -- a Japenese Mazda veteran runs the show now, not a Ford bean-counter. So I'm hoping the 8 engine issue will be handled, as another poster put it, honorably.
You readin' this, Mazda? I hope you are.
08-03-2005 | 08:54 PM
#150
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From: What Happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas!
Originally Posted by MrJynx
can't say it's a problem with all 8's, but considering the overly warm weather it could have contributed to the issues.
I can understand why your so vexed, i couldn't drive my car for 3 days and was tripping out.. However, you can't blindly say all 8's have a problem.
Do you know how many 8's were sold in vegas?? Ie, were 350 sold? 3500?? Or maybe 10,000?? Until we know the numbers we can't say "all 8's will be affected" because 35 vehicles which have shown this problem isn't a lot considering the number that have been sold..
I can understand why your so vexed, i couldn't drive my car for 3 days and was tripping out.. However, you can't blindly say all 8's have a problem.
Do you know how many 8's were sold in vegas?? Ie, were 350 sold? 3500?? Or maybe 10,000?? Until we know the numbers we can't say "all 8's will be affected" because 35 vehicles which have shown this problem isn't a lot considering the number that have been sold..
"With respect"
We are not talking "overly warm" or it is hot in DC or Atlanta is hot this year.
In Vegas we had many places in the city that was over 120' with low humidity for 2 weeks running, I don't care how hot you think it is where you live.....120 is hot, very hot. the official highest temperature ever recorded was in Death Valley 136', it got 134' there when we had our heat wave. It is still in the 100's here.
The RX-8 is still considered a low production car and even if it was just 35 engines that need replaced, that is huge (we all now know of course that it is much more than 35 engines.) Engine failures and full replacements are getting very rare in todays market.
I had my RX-8 for over a year and loved every minute, I still have many friends that own and love the cars, I don't think that will ever change as Mazda will do the right thing and make everyone happy. I once had a girlfriend that was nothing but trouble, she smoked, cheated and caused me great pain, but she was the one that I loved with all my heart, kinda like the beautiful RX.
The Baller
