teknics

Yes thats the correct TSB, print it and bring it to the dealer if you feel you are incapable of performing it yourself (or to a friend who is rx8 knowledgeable and capable of the repair)

Why should mazda cover it if you're out of warranty? Improper maintenance isn't their fault... Yes carbon in the motor happens somewhat easily and such but a combination of the proper driving style and correct maintenance would prevent this situation.

kevin.

clmantis21

Yea i understand what you mean.

A neighbor of mine works at the Acura Service Center, maybe if I print this and show it to him, he could work on it since he has experience with working on cars.

To make sure I have this right, what parts do I need to purchase? And from where? (or is it just a cleaning process?)

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks again for helping me out!

teknics

Realistically order all the parts listed on the TSB.

if your friend is mechanically inclined he will be able to do it. it seems harder then it is. You basically unbolt and move the thermostat housing over to the side, then unbolt and slide out the SSV. the TSB makes it seem hard because it breaks it into so many steps. It is a straightforward thing really.

kevin.

clmantis21

An update with the latest:

Today as I was taking off the upper intake manifold (I was going to try an access the stuck valve through there and lub it/clean it with seafoam) my neighbor came by and we started talking about the problems I've been having. Luckily, he has an OBDII reader so we plugged it in.

I havent had a CEL for the last 2 days, but as I'm assuming it gave us the last code that triggered the CEL. It came back as P2096 (post catyastic fuel trim bank 1 system to lean). Nothing on the P2070. So now I'm stumped again. While taking the intake "accordion" hose off, there was some oil residue on the under side near where it attaches to the throttle body. Is that normal? I doubt it.

Both my neighbor and his friend suggested I take it to the dealer to have them drive it. Symptoms again are: Loss of power while accelerating. Stalls (especially when it is really hot out), rough idling at times and today while accelerating on highway a loud really weird rattling between 4500-6500 rpms. I would let off the gas because of how bad it sounded. Wish I had a video camera at the time so I could show u all the crazy sound. Sounded like something was about to fall off or blow.

this is frustrating!

teknics

DTC P2096 Target A/F feedback system too lean

DETECTION CONDITION

The PCM monitors the target A/F fuel trim when under the target A/F feedback control. If the fuel trim is less than the specification, the PCM determines that the target A/F feedback system is too lean.

Diagnostic support note
This is a continuous monitor (Fuel system).
The MIL illuminates if the PCM detects the above malfunction condition in two consecutive drive cycles or in one drive cycle while the DTC for the same malfunction has been stored in the PCM.
PENDING CODE is available if the PCM detects the above malfunction condition during the first drive cycle.
FREEZE FRAME DATA is available.
The DTC is stored in the PCM memory.

POSSIBLE CAUSE

Leakage exhaust gas
Rear HO2S malfunction
IAT sensor malfunction
ECT sensor malfunction
AIR system malfunction
Leakage intake-air
Front HO2S malfunction
MAF sensor malfunction
Fuel line pressure malfunction
Fuel pump unit malfunction
Leakage fuel
Ignition system malfunction
High-tension lead malfunction
Incorrect power supply to ignition coil
Ignition coil malfunction
Insufficient compression
Metering oil pump malfunction
Engine oil condition malfunction
Increased oil pressure
Oil passage malfunction
Engine malfunction
Fuel injector malfunction
PCM malfunction

clmantis21

Yea, I found that same exact LONG post on another thread after I posted on here. Im taking it to the dealer and asking about MIAC and engine compression. Also read somewhere that the CAT is covered until 80k... i'm at 79,400 so I'm def gonna ask about that. I then plan on cleaning the MAF and completing the P2070 TSB once and for all. Might not swap the SSV just yet but definitely getting in there to clean it out and run Sea Foam.

clmantis21

Dropped off the car this morning.....

Just got a call from the service guy (seems like a really nice guy) and he said that they are going to preform the MSP16 recall and that they are going to go ahead and do a series of compression tests. He said they need to do it at hi ambient temperatures (now) and also when its cold (tomorrow morning) so they are keeping it over night.

I'll give you guys an update tomorrow after I hear back from him.

teknics

somehow i forgot to actually type anything in my previous post other then pasting the DTC info, my apologies.

I was going to say based on your symptoms you should definitely decarb and see if anything improves.

In general those symptoms can be caused by severe carbon buildup or a gradual loss of engine compression which has finally reached it's drivability threshold. Rattling noise could be lots of things, but if it's in the engine possibly a chipped seal.

Important question, how long does it take to start your car with the motor hot? Like say you drive around for an hour, stop for 5 minutes and then try to start the car? Does it seem flooded slightly or does it take longer to start then when cold?

Keep me updated on what the dealer finds i have a few thoughts in my head.

kevin.

clmantis21

Car starts right up in the morning...

During a hot start it feels a little sluggish when starting. Of course when it stalls... then it doesnt start again. I have to sit there for about 15 mins, try a few times and it eventually starts again. When it does... its very weak and I have to rev it a lot so it doesnt stall again... even while driving.

Dealer should be calling me in the morning.. so I'll let you know what they find.

csl

I just fixed the similar problem of mine. Replaced the fuel pump. Another friend of mine did that too. My symptom: Engine stalled only when it is hot. Free rev is ok. But when change gear from the 6th (about 60mph) to 4th, it will stall. On hotter temperature, even cruising with 40mph, it will stall too. When it stalled, difficult to get it started again. Wait about 10-15 minutes, then it will be alright. Drive it gently within 3k rpm and it will not stall again for some distance.

clmantis21

hmmm... some of your symptoms sound similar, but not too sure.

I''m still waiting to hear back from the dealership about the compression tests... etc.

teknics

yea as csl stated above you definitely have a problem being caused by your motor heating up. The simplest problem would be the fuel pump overheating causing it to fail once it gets hot from pumping, the worst case scenario is compression.

Considering how you said it's very difficult to start after it stalls that makes me lean a little more towards fuel pump overheating, but there are still possibilities.

Before your car stalls are there also symptoms? does the car gradually begin to bog more and more until finally it putters and eventually dies, or is the stalling more sudden and less gradual?

kevin.

clmantis21

Hmmm...

I want to say that the car has symptoms before it dies. Like I said above, in the mornings it doesn't have any stalling issues... however it doesnt feel like its giving me its full power, even after the car is warmed up. Then, for example I'll be at school for a few hours during the mid day... then when I drive home I start to feel the issues. Not completely always, but most of the times lately. I get no power on high way... and if I exit and let it... it'll stall. I usually have to save it by revving. When it does stall I usually have to try at least a few times and/or wait about 10-15 minutes for it to start up again. Only once did it start right back up.... all others it took a while. Sometimes I pull over because I think its about to stall, and just rev the engine while parked so it doesnt die. After a few minutes I am able to get going again... but with a very weak throttle response and idle.

jzamarripa

yo clmantis I live in san antonio too, I had a cavalier that had similar symptoms and it was cause of the fuel pump. But another thing that cause the same symptoms on it was the EGR valve. I dont know if our cars have this valve but it stood for Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve. What it did was let exhaust gas back into the cylinders to regulate the rpms. The problem was that after a while with all the carbon build up from the exhaust it would stay open a bit and let constant flow of exhaust back into the engine causing it to lose power and stall sometimes. All I did to fix this was just take it off and use some carbon cleaner to clean it up and scrub all the carbon build up off and it fixed the problem. You might want to look into changing fuel filters too, doesn't hurt. If anything keep me posted. Im usually here in San
Anto on the weekends except for this one since its easter and all.

clmantis21

Update:

Well the Mazda Tech called me today. He said that they ran some compression tests and that the car is indeed loosing compression. He said that the next step is that he needs to call Mazda to ask what they want him to do, but unfortunately Mazda is closed until Monday because of Easter. I asked about a loaner car, but he said he couldn't approve a loaner until Mazda ok'd the repair under warranty.

So... im stuck with no car for the entire weekend (I work weekends; im a bartender)... so that's inconvenient! Oh well...

clmantis21

Well, its confirmed...

NEW ENGINE

The tech who was helping me last week has been in the hospital this week so it was still unclear as to what was going on at the dealer. I stopped in today for an update from another service guy and he pulled up my information and assured me that they will be replacing the engine.

He said the new engine should be in on Tuesday of next week and it would be a ready a few days after. Hope all turns out all right.

clmantis21

Just got my car back today. The tech said there is no break in period for the new engine (is there??) so I redlined it a bit and there is definately a difference as far as power goes.

Is there anything I need to know regarding this new engine? And, what warranty does it hold? I have 79500 miles... so does that mean the engine only has 20k miles on warranty?

Thanks!

teknics

key's to "break in"

- constantly vary the engine load (high rpm, low rpm, switch gears frequently, try to avoid bumper-to-bumper traffic situations)
- allow full warm-up and cool-off periods of at least 3-5 minutes
- no cruising
- oil change at 3k or before for at least the first 3
- i'd rec. going with either 5w20 or 10w30 for the first 2 oil changes during break in, but thats more "old routines die hard" no factual evidence
- monitor fluid levels obv.

as i said somewhere else:

" your motor is like a dog, you want to get it around and socialize it with everything and anything that it will see in the future"

or something like that.

I'd personally also rec. at least a .25oz:1gal of premix if you dont plan on premixing down the road, if you will be premixing start with and stay with at least around .5oz:1gal. Remember, tc-w3.

kevin.

jstieber

this has been an extremely helpful thread.

i've posted with this problem multiple times on here and i haven't had luck with a dealer. everyone here is great and they know what they are talking about, thankfully because i don't.

i have the exact same symptoms as you and also the same driving condition. with an additional few problems that probably don't have anything to do with it. I'm actually going to print off this thread and take it to the dealer with my car. and say hey i have all of these symptoms also (i told them that the first time too but they didn't do anything to help me, just charged me a lot).

anyway thanks to everyone who posted on here and also original poster (sorry i didn't look at your username) for being so detailed on everything. i'm sure it is going to help me soon.

clmantis21

Not a problem... I too am thankful to all those with knowledge for their help. Hopefully this new engine runs strong and I dont have any further issues. I am not sure how much help printing this thread will be for you but I wish you the best of luck at the dealer.

In my opinion, you just have to roll the dice... take it in and have them check the compression. The guys at my dealer checked it several times and in different conditions but luckily it was worth it and everything was covered under warranty (100k). If it isnt the compression, then I would check all those other suggestions offered by teknics and others.

peterlemonjello

Interesting, so you're recommending 8oz with the MOP enabled. I've been using 4oz. of Idemitsu but have thought about bumping it up after reading Swoope's posts. If you're recommending this too then I probably should.

jstieber

well i really need something to take in there and shove in their faces. i'm 19 years old and they look at me like i am a 19 year old who knows nothing about his car or the way that they are going to sweet talk their way around warranty work.

the first time when i took the car in, i picked it up and looked at the invoice and the "issues with the car" section on it wasn't even close to what i told them. multiple times. so i think i need to find a different dealer but the one i take it to is the closest one to me, 100 miles away.

teknics

that, again, is wholly personal opinion. i still go by tried and true methods for older 13b's considering the rx8's new omp isn't really that improved.

if there's data specific to rx8's concerning premix levels, i encourage you to put more credit towards that in this situation.

kevin.

HoosierRX8

ok so wait, my car is an 04 with 75k miles on it and doing the exact same thing when it gets hot outside (90) you took yours to the dealer to get looked at and they replaced the engine completely under warranty? up to 100k miles?

clmantis21

Yes.

The reason they replaced the engine was because it was loosing compression. Read over the many threads dealing with the symptoms you feel you car is having. Sometimes its as easy as a fuel pump, or plugs/wires/coils or bigger like my case for instance.

After you've read up... and if you feel like this may be the same for you... then take it to the dealer and tell them you are loosing power. The worst that could happen is it is not loosing compression and they charge you for a compression test.

I'm happy with my result because I havent felt this much power behind my car in a looooong time. I guess you slowly start getting used to a weaker and weaker engine and not notice how big of a difference it really is.

g'luck!