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Preventative Measures

Old 01-06-2012, 10:31 PM
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Preventative Measures

So, My rx8 has had its engine blown since oct. 27th, after having just 6300 miles on that engine. In that time frame I was extremely meticulous with my maintenance. Oil changed under 3k miles, and checked and topped off every other day. Despite this, the engine still went. What I want to do this time, after having to drop roughly 3500 on a new engine, is do everything I possibly can to ensure this wont happen again. So far, the following are the ideas I'm toying around with, I greatly welcome all suggestions:

1) catless midpipe
2) BHR ignition system
3) Sohn adaptor (from my understanding this will allow me to run synthetic oil, which I prefer. my question is, do I have to be as meticulous with that oil as well, or is it the 2 stroke i have to check more often? For instance, can I go 3500-4k without a change and topping off the regular oil if I have one of these?)
3) oil catch can
4) proper tune
5) mazmart(i believe) water pump


I know the oil catch can is probably pointless for a N/A vehicle, but id like to have it incase I over top off oil.

I would greatly appreciate any and all suggestions and recommendations. I really can't afford do drop 3500 on a new engine every 3 months...haha
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:05 PM
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As far as the SOHN adapter goes you would not be burning your engine oil any more, so no you would not have to top it off. You would have to check your 2 stroke level religiously thought because you would not want that running out obviously.

If you have $4000 to spend on a new engine DO NOT GO WITH MAZDA. Search around and see what other places charge, you may end up spending a few thousand more(maybe) but you will end up with a superior product. I think that may be your best bet is making the engine last. Reman engines from Mazda are just know to fail and to use parts that should have been replaced.

From the sounds of it though, you already spent the money at Mazda..
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:26 PM
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Premix, good\healthy ignition system, healthy catalytic converter, tune, oil pressure regulator and water pump i'd say.
Using the right oil viscosity helps too.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by xexok View Post
As far as the SOHN adapter goes you would not be burning your engine oil any more, so no you would not have to top it off. You would have to check your 2 stroke level religiously thought because you would not want that running out obviously.

If you have $4000 to spend on a new engine DO NOT GO WITH MAZDA. Search around and see what other places charge, you may end up spending a few thousand more(maybe) but you will end up with a superior product. I think that may be your best bet is making the engine last. Reman engines from Mazda are just know to fail and to use parts that should have been replaced.

From the sounds of it though, you already spent the money at Mazda..
I haven't done it yet. I have spoken to Juni at JRX rotary, and my worry with a rebuild is that it starts at 3000, but it may also cost much more depending on what happened inside the motor. I can all mazdatrix and racing beat up since neither are too far from me. Thats probably what happened to my motor, because there is no reason it should have blown at 6k..
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:26 PM
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What's the back story on the engine that blew at 6300 miles? Where did it come from and who put it in? There is no reason for an engine to blow that soon unless something was f***ed on the rebuild or installation. Seems like if you paid someone in the business for it you should have some kind of comeback.

Ken
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ken-x8 View Post
What's the back story on the engine that blew at 6300 miles? Where did it come from and who put it in? There is no reason for an engine to blow that soon unless something was f***ed on the rebuild or installation. Seems like if you paid someone in the business for it you should have some kind of comeback.

Ken
Browining mazda, installed under warranty as a replacement.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:57 PM
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Don't they stand behind their work, even if it's warranty?

Where is Browning Mazda, so the rest of us know who to keep away from?

Ken
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:25 PM
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Ken he never mentioned how long the engine has been in the car. True he is not over the 12k mile warranty but he may be over the year warranty.

Dizenman, when was this engine installed? Since you say you actually paid mazda for this then it should for sure have the 1 year/12k mile warranty(whatever comes first) that comes with it.


Yes you will end up paying more for a basic rebuilt engine from a performance shop, but not in the long run. Your last engine lasted you less than 7k miles, that tells you the quality of Mazda. Unless you can get it free from them through warranty it is worth spending the extra money to have it properly rebuilt by a shop that knows what they are doing. If you buy another Mazda engine for $3500 and it fails in 10k miles you would be out more than a quality rebuild anywhere else will cost you if you factor in the first failed engine. It might be time to bite the bullet and pay for proper work.
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:32 PM
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It might be time to bite the bullet and pay for proper work.
Looks like that's what he's doing - he's talking to engine builders.

With an '04 he should still be within the 8 years. Then it depends if he's within the 100k miles...which would be the case if the warranty replacement was at 93k. The 1 year, 12k part warranty would come into effect only if it was now beyond the 8/100.

But getting it done properly and being set, even with a cash outlay, can outweigh pushing Mazda for another one of their sleepy rebuilds.

Ken
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:01 PM
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Being meticulous isn't enough. It's very important that you steer clear of altering the engine or any of its systems so that they deviate from original Mazda specs. Honestly… a Sohn adapter?? If only I had a dollar for every Renesis engine requiring premature replacement that:

• was modded
• had anything other than gasoline poured into the fuel tank
• had too thick an oil trying oh-so-hard to circulate freely through its engine
• used synthetic oil
• didn't have all ECU flash upgrades
• wasn't warmed up a few minutes before pulling away
• didn't have its oil level checked every other fill-up
• didn't have its oil changed regularly
• wasn't redlined often

I know… you've been good about some of the above. But let's face it… you've ignored some, too. If anything goes wrong with your engine prematurely, let's just say it won't be a surprise to me.

Last edited by New Yorker; 01-07-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by xexok View Post
Ken he never mentioned how long the engine has been in the car. True he is not over the 12k mile warranty but he may be over the year warranty.

Dizenman, when was this engine installed? Since you say you actually paid mazda for this then it should for sure have the 1 year/12k mile warranty(whatever comes first) that comes with it.


Yes you will end up paying more for a basic rebuilt engine from a performance shop, but not in the long run. Your last engine lasted you less than 7k miles, that tells you the quality of Mazda. Unless you can get it free from them through warranty it is worth spending the extra money to have it properly rebuilt by a shop that knows what they are doing. If you buy another Mazda engine for $3500 and it fails in 10k miles you would be out more than a quality rebuild anywhere else will cost you if you factor in the first failed engine. It might be time to bite the bullet and pay for proper work.
I did not pay mazda for it, it was installed under warranty on july 15th 2011. It blew on october 27th 2011. What I said about paying for it, from memory without reading the post, is they will not honor a replacement part warranty unless it was a purchased replacement part. So in my situation, the engine was installed under warranty at 98124 and blew at 104,459 I believe, give or take a few miles. this was under 1 year and 12k, but apparently since i did not purchase the engine mazda does not stand behind it.

As for browning mazda, they are in Cerritos, Ca. They did something sly, in my opinion. I've noticed every stealership you walk into has a different warranty on replacement parts. Browning's warranty excludes all remanufactured parts. Technically, Mazda corporates warranty covered me, but they refused to honor it.

I remember looking a while back and saw rotary inspired performance had engines already rebuilt that I could purchase. Does anybody know if they still offer these? I may purchase one from them and have either JRX, Racing Beat, or Mazdatrix install it.

Do any of you guys know any shops that have some engines in stock to purchase?
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
Being meticulous isn't enough. It's very important that you steer clear of altering the engine or any of its systems so that they deviate from original Mazda specs. Honestly… a Sohn adapter?? If only I had a dollar for every Renesis engine requiring premature replacement that:

• was modded
• had anything other than gasoline poured into the fuel tank
• had too thick an oil trying oh-so-hard to circulate freely through its engine
• used synthetic oil
• didn't have all ECU flash upgrades
• wasn't warmed up a few minutes before pulling away
• didn't have its oil level checked every other fill-up
• didn't have its oil changed regularly
• wasn't redlined often

I know… you've been good about some of the above. But let's face it… you've ignored some, too. If anything goes wrong with your engine prematurely, let's just say it won't be a surprise to me.
The only mod on the car was a catless midpipe. I also had a cobb accessport, but since I heard the stage 1 tune was not very good, I only used the anti theft mode when I was parking on the street in downtown LA overnight. I was saving for the mazdamaniac tune. Only gasoline and premix went in the tank(could premix have blown it? ive always read otherwise.) I used mazdas recommendation for oil. Do you have a suggestion as to something that would have been better? I really do not want to go through this again. I let the car sit about 5 minutes before driving away, although I will admit that there have been some situations when I either forgot about this or was in such a rush that I couldn't wait, but more often than not I did do this, and I never, ever, turned the car off cold. ECU flashes were done. Oil was checked every 2 days in my driveway. I found this much easier than at a gas station. Oil changed before 3k miles. Maybe too often haha.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:12 AM
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IMHO, it would be worth consulting a lawyer. Putting in an engine that blew that quickly does not seem like they honored the warranty. It's like they knew you were close to the end, and they put in a piece of crap that would just tide them over.

But shelling out the money and cutting losses on the aggravation also makes sense.

I don't know if there's anything that would guarantee long life. Failures seem to be random, likely coming from variations in assembly. The only info from Mazda is that associated with 4206f and zoom-zoom clean, which suggests side seal problems from carbon buildup. There are also Mazda's service memos that show carbon-clogged side ports, supposedly from synthetic, plus the general owner's mantra about beep-a-day. With carbon being a factor, I recommend that you not warm the car by idling, but just start to drive (gently) after the 10 seconds the owner's manual says.

I would suggest that when you settle on an engine builder, ask for their recommendations on how to treat it. They're in the business. Also ask them for a post-mortem opinion on why this engine blew.

Ken
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:21 AM
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There are other things...
Higher oil pressures on any rotary before and after the s1 renesis, uneven seal wear (premix helps), poor oil viscosity in the states and residues as you state. Synthetics do burn cleaner than their mineral blend counterparts so please don't blame them

In the op's case it was just bad luck with the rebuilt engine he got i guess.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:42 AM
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so please don't blame them
Not blaming synthetics...just referring to Mazda's libelous memos. They have some fairly gruesome pictures of where carbon can build up.

The true facts about synthetics are clearly laid out here in the cumulative synthetic oil thread.

Ken
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ken-x8 View Post
There are also Mazda's service memos that show carbon-clogged side ports, supposedly from synthetic, plus the general owner's mantra about beep-a-day. Ken
Originally Posted by ken-x8 View Post
Not blaming synthetics...just referring to Mazda's libelous memos. They have some fairly gruesome pictures of where carbon can build up.

The true facts about synthetics are clearly laid out here in the cumulative synthetic oil thread.

Ken
You're right but a new user could misinterpret the previous post. Car enthusiasts aren't what they used to be nowadays... They read a line and pretend to know everything on the subject.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dizenman View Post
The only mod on the car was a catless midpipe. I also had a cobb accessport, but since I heard the stage 1 tune was not very good, I only used the anti theft mode when I was parking on the street in downtown LA overnight. I was saving for the mazdamaniac tune. Only gasoline and premix went in the tank(could premix have blown it? ive always read otherwise.) I used mazdas recommendation for oil. Do you have a suggestion as to something that would have been better? I really do not want to go through this again. I let the car sit about 5 minutes before driving away, although I will admit that there have been some situations when I either forgot about this or was in such a rush that I couldn't wait, but more often than not I did do this, and I never, ever, turned the car off cold. ECU flashes were done. Oil was checked every 2 days in my driveway. I found this much easier than at a gas station. Oil changed before 3k miles. Maybe too often haha.
Yes, it does sound like you pretty much looked after your engine very well. I agree… something's fishy here.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dizenman View Post
I did not pay mazda for it, it was installed under warranty on july 15th 2011. It blew on october 27th 2011. What I said about paying for it, from memory without reading the post, is they will not honor a replacement part warranty unless it was a purchased replacement part. So in my situation, the engine was installed under warranty at 98124 and blew at 104,459 I believe, give or take a few miles. this was under 1 year and 12k, but apparently since i did not purchase the engine mazda does not stand behind it.

Your first post just confused me then because several times in it you talked about having to "drop another $3500" so I thought you had paid in the first place. Either way they should be helping you rather than trying to screw you over, I hope you get it fixed.

I just skimmed over your other thread from 10/31/11 on this and you mentioned talking to some lawyer friends, did you ever get that ball rolling?
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bse50 View Post
You're right but a new user could misinterpret the previous post. Car enthusiasts aren't what they used to be nowadays... They read a line and pretend to know everything on the subject.
Correct - which is why this follow-up was necessary. Thanks for helping to clarify.

Ken
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by xexok View Post
Your first post just confused me then because several times in it you talked about having to "drop another $3500" so I thought you had paid in the first place. Either way they should be helping you rather than trying to screw you over, I hope you get it fixed.

I just skimmed over your other thread from 10/31/11 on this and you mentioned talking to some lawyer friends, did you ever get that ball rolling?
I was preemptively saying dropping the 3500 because I knew thats the ballpark of what it was going to cost. I don't usually rush into things though. The engine has been blown since late october and i still haven't fixed it...hahaa.

As per the lawyers, I consulted them, they sent mazda a letter of intent and mazda still stuck to their case. I sued them in small claims, However I made the mistake of including Browning mazda as well, so I was getting doubled teamed by corporate and browning. They actually made up multiple lies and I wasn't given much a chance to defend myself. Not to mention the judge thought the rx8 had a "bulletproof" engine... Mazda claimed the rx8 can burn through a quart of oil in 600 miles, and since my previous oil change was 2300 miles ago, thats time frame enough to blow through all off the oil...and the judge bought that, and seemingly ignored the fact that I had topped it off 2 days prior. That is the key point that lost me the case unfortunately... Since it was in small claims, Lawyers were not allowed in. Since I had no experience in court, aside from traffic, and this guy from mazda seemed like a pro I was fighting a losing battle.

I really do not want to support Mazda after the way I have been treated by them, so I would much rather have a performance shop rebuild it. Just as an aside, there are times when car companies graciously deny coverage of warranty. They will be humane, sincere, and treat their customers as customers when denying coverage. Throughout this entire ordeal Mazda never once treated me, and those involved with me, as human beings. We were treated as lesser people, shown no respect or dignity, and were demeaned and ridiculed by Mazda. When my friend drove to Mazda corporate to serve them the papers, the person he was serving was able to see the car he got out of and actually started making fun of that car. When we were initially being denied coverage, we were told it was by a supervisor. When asked to be transferred to a supervisor, we were told we couldn't be. When we asked for the supervisor to call us, we were told they don't call people. When we asked for the supervisors name, they told us they can't give us that information. I am wondering if the main Mazda in Japan knows Mazda USA operates in this manner, and if they approve of it!
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ken-x8 View Post

I would suggest that when you settle on an engine builder, ask for their recommendations on how to treat it. They're in the business. Also ask them for a post-mortem opinion on why this engine blew.

Ken
I am going to do this. What I also want to do is collect as much information as I can in regards to the amounts of rx8s had blown engines, especially low mile remans and just send it to the judge I had. I know it won't change the outcome, but I would really like for him to feel like a dick when he learns the truth about the renesis, opposed to the idea that it is a "bulletproof" engine.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
Yes, it does sound like you pretty much looked after your engine very well. I agree… something's fishy here.
Thanks, If there is one thing I truly do love it is driving, and I am extremely **** and meticulous with my vehicles. It's too bad I'm not like that with everything else in life, otherwise I would probably make Bill Gates look poor...haha.
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