jerryf

I wonder what they are doing in Phoenix??? I was told that my car was "the only one in Phoenix" having this problem, and they certainly aren't working on my car.

I haven't put many miles on the car since the new cat, so I really can't say whether it's fixed or not. I took a road trip to Vegas last weekend, but took my Escape, as I do not trust the RX8 anymore. The few miles I have put on it since I got it back have been flawless though, so maybe they got it. Time will tell.

Kwullen

Sorry about the Phoenix, my girl was confused, the team is in Vegas.
abbid said the number is wrong also, so it's being checked on.
I am supposed to get a call from the team leader, but it may not be until after the weekend.
My car is consistantly doing the problem, so I have volunteered that they can take my car wherever it needs to go for testing. I know how hard intermittent problems are to find and my car does it EVERY time it's over 95 degrees with just a few miles driving.
The closest dealer isn't much to talk about, so they may ask me to take it to another with a tech that can help them find what mine's doing.

Kwullen

We can also help them by putting together a list of which cars are doing it.
Mine is : 2004 MT latest flash (done after first episode of this problem - had "N" at the time)
I run 89 octane gas - problem comes up at about 95 degrees outside air temp, goes away at 85 degrees. It is directly related to outside air temp - the hotter it gets the worse it runs - the cooler, the better.

zoom44

for those that have had stalling when the car was warmed up and got a cel code. if the cel is/was P0172 (fuel trim too rich) then there is a good chance there is a fuel injector problem. It would be either a fuel injection wiring harness fault or an actual incorrect positioning of the injectors themselves. if you have a stall with this code make sure they check the injectors and injector harnesses.

khoney

Just an update on my situation. It's been hotter than Hades here since I got back from vacation. I've been driving in ~100 degree weather, but I haven't been caught in any traffic jams (both times I had a problem, it was hot and I'd been idling a lot). I've had no problems. Still using 93 octane - I guesss I'd suggest people try 93 to see if it makes a difference. I'm almost afraid to return to 89 now...

Kewl

In this part of New Mexico the outside temps just recently got to the century mark. Driving home I got the low power condition, but I first noticed while drive down the freeway at 60mph with the AC on, of course. Once the temp dipped down a few degrees (to 100) the power levels returned to normal. No missing, just sluggish. I run 91 octane...highest available around here, with 'M' flash. It happened once before on a very hot day, but I don't recall it being at 100 or more, but it might have been. That was the first time it happened and I didn't know to relate it to outside temp. Interestingly enough I was driving with another NM RX8 and he indicated that at about the same time I experienced reduced power, so did he. It recovered at about the same time as well.

There were no codes thrown in either event. I plan on connecting the scanner on the next really hot day and record things like CAT and Intake Air Temps, along with throttle position and command to see if there is any relationship when the power is down.

Kwullen

Kewl, great idea and I'm sure MNAO wants to know what it shows.
The guy that's supposed to call me, has not, so I don't know anything new, other than I'm sick of my car sitting in my shop. I'm less than 700 miles from the end of the warrantee and NO WAY I'm going over before this issue is taken care of.
Mine does it at 95 degrees and it gets better as the temp drops, completely going away by 85 degrees. I wish a standard keyboard had the little degree "0" so I didn't have to keep spelling it out!
One difference between the west and here in sunny Florida is humidity which may also effect it. I know mine goes away at about 5 degrees less than what you westerners are talking about.
BTW, we love all the "four corners" states and that area in particular. I don't remember Corralles, NM, we were through Taos last summer on our way home from Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Mesa Verde and Arches National Parks. We did Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon and the indian ruins on our last trip, in '00. The drive from Jackson Hole to Montpelier, Idaho, was really memorable in the RX8!! I said something about it a few weeks ago and my wife started shaking, all over again!!

Kewl

Kwullen,

I guess I don't blame you for leaving it in the shop - at least you have a darn good reason to do that. I'm disappointed that they don't note the problem and let you have it back since it was discovered before warranty ended.

It is much dryer here, I grew up in Daytona Beach so I understand the difference. The altitude is a bit higher here too. I'm at about 5500 feet. I might try the test with the computer connected tomorrow if the forecast says it will be hot enough. It seems it has to be close to 100 or more before I encounter the problem.

Corrales is just North of Albuquerque - about 2.5 hours from Taos. Your wife should be pleased that your went from Jackson Hole and not to Jackson Hole from Montpelier. At least you were going uphill - as I recall. I've taken that road myself, just not in the 8. It would be fun to do that I'm sure.

I have taken the 8 out on track day at a road course in Colorado. If you EVER get a chance to do that, with some instructions first, do it. It was a blast and to see what the car would do was just beyond belief. I had no idea that what we do on some of the twisty road is peanuts compared to what the car will actually do on the track. The limitation is the driver...and how close those tire barrier appear to be getting to the car. lol

More on the heat/power test once I've had a chance to conduct one.

Josche

I'm beginning to wonder if the problems I was having a while back are related to what you guys are experiencing:

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/my-nightmare-progress-63169/

I experienced repeated power loss and engine shut-off during a 700-mile road trip.

1st time it lost power, I was on twisty mountain roads with 1/4 tank of gas, running it fairly hard and fast. When the power cut, I slowed down and stopped 10 miles later at a gast station.

1st time it died, I'd been driving for about 150 miles 70-80mph, AC on. Towed to a dealer where it sat overnight. The next day they flashed the computer, drove it for a while and couldn't reproduce the problem.

Half an hour after leaving the dealership, the car lost power. 1/4 tank of gas. I limped it to a gas station, filled up, and was able to take back roads to a different dealer. They drove it and couldn't reproduce the problem.

A few hours later (1/4 tank of gas) it lost power and finally died 5 miles from my house. Had it towed to my house. The next morning it wouldn't start. The following day I was able to drive it to the dealer where I bought it, 20 miles away. They drove it and were not able to reproduce the problem.

Since that I've done a lot of driving, but I've made sure to keep 1/2 a tank or more in it while on extended road trips. No problems.

Similar symptoms, but not under identical conditions to what you guys have been experiencing. When it happened, it was the first time I'd run the car in hot weather for an extended period with the AC on, it was also the first time I'd taken it on a road trip.

Since the incident happened, I've had reocurring nightmares about my car losing power. I'd literally sleep better at night if Mazda would identify and fix the problem so I know it won't happen again.

demob05

How have you been taking care of it when the troubles began?? Broken in correctly? Oil checking and filled regularly? Warmed up properly and revved high ever so frequently to flush out the system, etc.??

alchemist

[QUOTE=I wish a standard keyboard had the little degree "0" so I didn't have to keep spelling it out!

Try ALT 248 for the degree symbol

I have been driving my 8 through a typical Phoenix summer and so far have not had any problems when the temp is over 100° (6sp 4/04 build date).

Josche

Yes, the car was broken in correctly (except for the 300 miles the dealer put on it before I bought it), has had oil changes and gets redlined pretty frequently. When the problem happened it had maybe 4K miles on it.

Kwullen

Kewl,
We went near Albequerque after Taos. I had gone to Philmont, the big Boy Scout ranch in '66 and we stopped there to show my wife and I got a new Philmont belt to go with the buckle I had kept. After Philmont in '66, Air Force boot camp in '70 was a joke!
I've driven my 8 on Road Atlanta, not on a lapping day but during a rather spirited touring session during the Walter Mitty weekend. Several of us were black flagged near ther end of the hour long session and not allowed back out for Sunday's "tour." Oh well, it was worth the 50 bucks! I probably have somewhere in the neighborhood of 5,000 miles at Road Atlanta and I was dumbfounded by the balance of my 8. One of the guys I was "touring" with also drove a 914/6 race car at the event. He looked me up in the paddock and asked for a closer look at the 8. Since he was driving his street 914/6 (gorgeously done car) and I had no trouble keeping up, he thought the stock street 8 would be competitive with the vintage 2.0 liter Porsches. I do have 245/40 S03 Bridgies on my 8 and I was equally impressed with their performance, feel and progression. The transitions at turn 2 and 3 and down through the esses were as good, if not better, than any formula car I've raced at Atlanta. My only complaint on performance is the car will corner at better g's than the seat will hold you. I have been considering a race bucket for it, but I'll be far enough under the jail, if I get caught, now. I do too many road miles commuting to think about beating myself up with MS, or another, suspension system. You can tell from the dates above, I'm getting too old for that s**t.
I'm not pleased that the MNAO rep has yet to contact me. If you have no solutions to tell me about, tell me that and listen to what I've found with temp/humidity differences, don't just f**king ignore me.
I'm sure they'd appreciate me ignoring them if they had a problem with the products they purchase from me.
joshe - the tank level and octanes have made no difference on my car. I brought my car home from my shop today, I'm going out of town and didn't want to leave it in the guys way at work. They put up with enough "car stuff" already! It was 97 and the car ran like crap after about 5 miles. Again, as I neared the coast and it got cooler, the performance came back. I did notice something new. The performance was much better in 1st through 3rd gears than in 4th or above. Interesting, don't they have two different maps for the lower and higher gears?
I'm beginning to believe their is a loss somewhere in or from the mass air flow meter when the air density is too low. I believe that's the difference with the temps from the dry west and the humid south. The higher humidity lowers air density faster. Race engines are always farther "off" on the dyno as both air temp and humidity increase. You want a killer dyno run, do it on a nice cold dry day in January.
Also, the Subaru prep shops have a velocity stack to use with the K&N Typhoon on that car. Why? Because it needs the velocity stack at the end of the Typhoon tube to keep good air flow through the MAFM.

Kewl

Well I've done two days of driving in about 100 temps with the computer connected without any lose of power issues showing up. I have noted that the CAT temps have peaked at slightly over 1700 degrees for short periods of time. I have not compared any speed/rpm values to the high CAT temp. Intake Temp has also been high if you ask me. I've seen 135+ with an average of say 115-120 while driving home from work. Again I have not really studied the data yet, but when it is only 97 outside, the 115+ plus just seems high to me. I shall continue to drive with the computer connected, but tomorrow will be cooler than today and as a rule I did not see 100+ but once and that was starting out and once I got moving it dipped below the 100 mark.

Kwullen...I would love to drive Atlanta in the 8, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. We are planning on a drive on a track in Publeo CO later on this year. Don't recall track name, but I'm told it is one of the best in Colorado.

khoney

Well, I guess my "power loss, then it died" problem isn't fixed after all. Yesterday my car not only died, but I also had a flat.

At least I was able to start it up again right away, although I had to give it a good crank. I was scared sh*tless I would get rear-ended. It was a busy road, with no shoulders.

I think the reason I was doing OK for so long was that because school was out, I hadn't been sitting in traffic a lot in the heat. School just started up, and I spent a lot of time idling in the heat yesterday. IMO, there is definitely some design problem with this car. I wish someone at Mazda could just figure it out before someone gets killed.

khoney

Well, it happened again. Hot temps, stuck in traffic, and the car started acting very sluggish. Taking off from a light, I heard bad engine sounds when I pushed it hard. I know it would have died on me had I left the A/C on. I turned on the heater full blast and took it easy on the way home. I am taking the car in on Monday, and I DON"T WANT IT BACK until they can tell me they know exactly what the problem is and can fix it. Having my car die unexpectedly aroung here is a death wish. I am afraid to drive this car, now that school has started back up and traffic is congested. I'd be OK on the morning drive, when it's cool, but I know I'd have problems on the way home in the afternoon. This problem concerns me greatly - there is a design flaw in this car, and anyone who says otherwise is blowing smoke up our collective asses. I love this car, and I am extremely disappointed in what's happening. MAZDA, GET YOUR SH*T TOGETHER AND FIND THIS PROBLEM AND FIX IT!!!!!

khoney

Took the car in today. After describing my problem, the Service Manager said "Maybe your car is a Group 1 vehicle. There have been some engines problems with vehicles in that group."

So how do I know if I'm a Group 1 vehicle?

zoom44

group 1 of the under car heat /thermal blanket recall

khoney

Talked to the dealership today. They tried real hard and were unable to duplicate any of the three problems I reported, two of which I experience on a continual basis. As far as the engine power loss and dying and marbles rattling in the can sound goes, they said essentially that on the first time they can duplicate the problem, they will reflash and give you your car back. The second time you bring it in for that problem, if they can duplicate the problem again, they will reflash and change spark plugs. You get the car back. You must have the problem occur a total of 4 times, and they must be able to duplicate it each time, before they replace the engine. I have already been reflashed and had the plugs changed the last time I had this problem (even though they were not able to duplicate the problem).

Then he suggested I try a different dealership, meybe they would have more luck at duplicating the problem.

I am so pissed I can't see straight! He gives me this line about how the technicians are master mechanics, and yet they can't do jack **** on their own. Every move they make is dictated by Mazda Tech Line. So here we are with summer coming to a close, and I probably won't be able to duplicate the problem for more than a few more weeks, because it will start cooling off. I've decided to go over there tomorrow afternoon, take the car, and drive it until I hopefully can duplicate the problem, then head straight for the dealership and hijack a mechanic. I paid full MSRP for this car, and they brush me off like this! They better hope I don't get another customer survey. I was trying to be nice to them on the last one, but there's no holding back now. I see a lot of 0's in their future.


And get this, they drove the damn car around without the A/C on, like that's how I would be driving it in 100 degree weather. In fact, I specifically told them when I dropped it off that when I had the problem, I turned off the A/C and turned on the heater to pull some heat from the engine. Sounds to me like they're trying hard not to find a problem.

roxi

Still waiting for my car back. Called the dealership today they have had the car since August 3 putting in a new engine. They said they were still working on it. Had to take drive shaft apart all the way to the back of the vehicle? Don't want a pieced together vehicle I'm paying mega bucks for.......

khoney

Today I took a half-day of vacation, and went to the dealership to get my car back and try to drive it around until it experienced a failure. It was over 100 degrees today, and by the time I was finished, my ambient temp display said 108 degrees - hotter than I have ever seen. I was sure I could get it to fail. I tried everything that I possibly could to duplicate the hesitation, power loss, and rattling sound in the engine. Lots of time spent at idle, followed by hard accels. Stop and go driving. I thought for sure I could get it to happen, but after 2 hours I could not duplicate it. It was getting to be closing time, so I just took the car back.

On the bright side, the rattling sound and vibrating that I've been complaining about for 22,000 miles was finally verified by the tech. They think there's a problem with the throwout bearing. They'll be tearing the clutch down tomorrow.

I'm not as angry as yesterday, since I talked to my salesman and he's going to talk to the GM about this. He understands my concern about possibly not being able to duplicate the problem while the car's still under warranty. I really do like this dealership, I'm just more frustrated at the process dictated by Mazda Corporate. Hopefully everything will work out in the end. I guess intermittent problems are the hardest ones to deal with.

khoney

Well, it looks like the weather's starting to cool off around here. Guess my problem won't rear it's ugly head until next summer, when the warranty has expired.

xcelrx8

Yikes. As a relatively new RX-8 owner (got mine mid-July), this thread scares the crap out of me. I live in Phx, and you know how hot it can get here; fortunately, I'm happy to say I've never experienced the severe power loss or stalling problem. It definitely runs better in the morning when it's cool, though. The most disturbing thing about this thread is Mazda's apparent inability to solve problems and resulting customer dissatisfaction. Keep us posted, khoney.

Twin 8s!

Well gents, I wrote a note about loss of power early on in this thread and have been looking through the more recent notes.

This looks like a significant problem to me. Last week both our RX-8s went in for this same problem. Well… actually, my wife’s had all the classic symptoms and stalled in traffic. They did a compression check and stated that the rear rotor was not up to spec for compression and that they were REPACING THE ENGINE, as well as programming the system to use more oil.

That same day, my engine light came on and the car was running very rough. So, I took it in and they … RAN A COMPRESSION TEST…. This problem must be happening a lot. In the case of my 8, the compression was dead on (normally the compression is above spec) so they debated about installing an oil pump with a higher flow… They kept the car overnight and after a test drive, decided to ORDER AN ENGINE for my 8 also.

The head of the service department told me that carbon build up on the rear rotor seals was a problem. He told me that most people do not run up the revs enough to keep the seal deposits cleaned off.

Soooo, here we are waiting for motors.

khoney

That just blows my mind. Some dealers are ordering a new engine, even if it may not be warranted? I can't even got my dealership to run any tests, because they couldn't duplicate my problem...