P0301-Help im lost
02-13-2013, 05:03 PM
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P0301-Help im lost
Hello all, I recently updated the entire ignitions sytems with new coils, wires, and plugs, all OEM factory Mazda parts. The car runs like a bat out of hell, no vibration at idle, no smoke, and fuel economy is decent enough(16-20mpg). Miles on car is 178xxx but supposedly had a new engine dropped in before I purchased. Well I know this is false because the ignition systems was shot when I replaced it, and I have only put 20k on it and haven't touched it other than oil changes every three thousand miles. Not to mention the wires I replaced clearly have 2004 date on them. I keep getting this misfire code P0301. I'm lost I have no idea where to go from here. I've searched these forums and Google and they all lead to plugs, coils, or wires. Like I've said they're all replaced with brand new components. Any help is greatly appreciated. I've even searched for a rotary shop around Florida with little to no luck. I've contacted rx8 performance in Hudson Florida and they have not returned my phone calls. I appreciate any help I can get. Thanks in advanced for a response.
02-13-2013, 06:05 PM
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Would that not be irrelevant if I replaced the coils with new ones. I can do this just want to know my money is being spent wisely. Thank you for the response. Its greatly appreciated
02-13-2013, 06:11 PM
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Actually, there have been cases where coils have been bad right out of the box. It is entirely possible that this is what you have happenning. A misfire(which you have) can only be attributed to just so much.....but there is a list of things.
So.......break it down for us..................I could assume 20k on all, but you indicate it's less than that.
How many miles on present coils?
How many miles on present plugs?
I will ask, but highly doubtful it's the wires..................how much on them?
Who changed these components and have you checked that the wires are solidly on the plugs and coils? You need to be careful when taking loose if checking, but you should really make sure all are secure and have snapped into place on the sparkplug end.
If you clear the code...........when does it come back? what are you doing or just did the moment the CEL starts flashing?
Auto or manual?
What are your driving habits?
All those with "?" will help us........help you.
Never seen an ESS cause a CEL, but anything is possible. If you know where it is..............might want to wipe it down.
So.......break it down for us..................I could assume 20k on all, but you indicate it's less than that.
How many miles on present coils?
How many miles on present plugs?
I will ask, but highly doubtful it's the wires..................how much on them?
Who changed these components and have you checked that the wires are solidly on the plugs and coils? You need to be careful when taking loose if checking, but you should really make sure all are secure and have snapped into place on the sparkplug end.
If you clear the code...........when does it come back? what are you doing or just did the moment the CEL starts flashing?
Auto or manual?
What are your driving habits?
All those with "?" will help us........help you.
Never seen an ESS cause a CEL, but anything is possible. If you know where it is..............might want to wipe it down.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 02-13-2013 at 06:17 PM.
02-13-2013, 06:11 PM
#5
its good advice--the rx8 ignition system can be a fickle thing--even with new parts.
You may want to do the ESS reset--search--it is easy to do and perhaps look at the maf--although I doubt that is it.
It is possible the fuel injectors need cleaning also--it could be a lot of different things.
You may want to do the ESS reset--search--it is easy to do and perhaps look at the maf--although I doubt that is it.
It is possible the fuel injectors need cleaning also--it could be a lot of different things.
02-13-2013, 06:52 PM
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Actually, there have been cases where coils have been bad right out of the box. It is entirely possible that this is what you have happenning. A misfire(which you have) can only be attributed to just so much.....but there is a list of things.
So.......break it down for us..................I could assume 20k on all, but you indicate it's less than that.
How many miles on present coils?
How many miles on present plugs?
I will ask, but highly doubtful it's the wires..................how much on them?
Who changed these components and have you checked that the wires are solidly on the plugs and coils? You need to be careful when taking loose if checking, but you should really make sure all are secure and have snapped into place on the sparkplug end.
If you clear the code...........when does it come back? what are you doing or just did the moment the CEL starts flashing?
Auto or manual?
What are your driving habits?
All those with "?" will help us........help you.
Never seen an ESS cause a CEL, but anything is possible. If you know where it is..............might want to wipe it down.
So.......break it down for us..................I could assume 20k on all, but you indicate it's less than that.
How many miles on present coils?
How many miles on present plugs?
I will ask, but highly doubtful it's the wires..................how much on them?
Who changed these components and have you checked that the wires are solidly on the plugs and coils? You need to be careful when taking loose if checking, but you should really make sure all are secure and have snapped into place on the sparkplug end.
If you clear the code...........when does it come back? what are you doing or just did the moment the CEL starts flashing?
Auto or manual?
What are your driving habits?
All those with "?" will help us........help you.
Never seen an ESS cause a CEL, but anything is possible. If you know where it is..............might want to wipe it down.
The coils have about 10k on them and the plugs have about 2k the wires were replaced today and have not even 100 miles on them. I did the install on all of these and I'm 100% positive that everything is tight and secure. When The code comes back its almost always in manual mode (automatic). And it throws right about 5k if I hold it there. If I drive auto it doesn't come on in quick 7500rpm bursts only if I hold the 5k+ rpm in manual mode. how ever if i gun it from 0 - 100 mph it will almost always flash about 90mph 3rd gear (6000rpm) My driving habits honestly is almost always to the floor unless im on the highway I cruise about 75mph.
02-13-2013, 06:55 PM
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its good advice--the rx8 ignition system can be a fickle thing--even with new parts.
You may want to do the ESS reset--search--it is easy to do and perhaps look at the maf--although I doubt that is it.
It is possible the fuel injectors need cleaning also--it could be a lot of different things.
You may want to do the ESS reset--search--it is easy to do and perhaps look at the maf--although I doubt that is it.
It is possible the fuel injectors need cleaning also--it could be a lot of different things.
02-13-2013, 07:15 PM
#8
i would do the following, if you've done some of this already, i'm just making a list.
1. plugs? new? low mile used? i think they are supposed to be changed @30k, yours should be newer.
2. wires. the FSM has a spec of like 1-4K ohms, so you should check that, and replace as needed. they also should clip to the plug securely.
3. yours are new, but the check is to use a timing light or HEI coil checker.
4. assuming all of this stuff checks out, i would clean the ESS (E shaft position sensor), its pretty easy, and doesn't take long.
4a. reset the NVRAM, turn the key on and stomp the brake pedal until the oil pressure gauge moves.
5. test drive car, if its fine its fine, if you STILL get the code, then it is time for a compression check.
6. if it compression tests ok, you're on your own, but maybe its a vacuum leak? maybe one of the wires on the coil plug backed out?
1. plugs? new? low mile used? i think they are supposed to be changed @30k, yours should be newer.
2. wires. the FSM has a spec of like 1-4K ohms, so you should check that, and replace as needed. they also should clip to the plug securely.
3. yours are new, but the check is to use a timing light or HEI coil checker.
4. assuming all of this stuff checks out, i would clean the ESS (E shaft position sensor), its pretty easy, and doesn't take long.
4a. reset the NVRAM, turn the key on and stomp the brake pedal until the oil pressure gauge moves.
5. test drive car, if its fine its fine, if you STILL get the code, then it is time for a compression check.
6. if it compression tests ok, you're on your own, but maybe its a vacuum leak? maybe one of the wires on the coil plug backed out?
02-13-2013, 07:21 PM
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i would do the following, if you've done some of this already, i'm just making a list.
1. plugs? new? low mile used? i think they are supposed to be changed @30k, yours should be newer.
Plugs have less than 2k and are new
2. wires. the FSM has a spec of like 1-4K ohms, so you should check that, and replace as needed. they also
should clip to the plug securely.
theyre plugged securely but I'll check
I shall buy one of these.
3. yours are new, but the check is to use a timing light or HEI coil checker.
They are brand new but it sounds like a good investment
4. assuming all of this stuff checks out, i would clean the ESS (E shaft position sensor), its pretty easy, and doesn't take long.
I will do this as well.
4a. reset the NVRAM, turn the key on and stomp the brake pedal until the oil pressure gauge moves.
Check.. Will also do this
5. test drive car, if its fine its fine, if you STILL get the code, then it is time for a compression check.
6. if it compression tests ok, you're on your own, but maybe its a vacuum leak? maybe one of the wires on the coil plug backed out?
1. plugs? new? low mile used? i think they are supposed to be changed @30k, yours should be newer.
Plugs have less than 2k and are new
2. wires. the FSM has a spec of like 1-4K ohms, so you should check that, and replace as needed. they also
should clip to the plug securely.
theyre plugged securely but I'll check
I shall buy one of these.
3. yours are new, but the check is to use a timing light or HEI coil checker.
They are brand new but it sounds like a good investment
4. assuming all of this stuff checks out, i would clean the ESS (E shaft position sensor), its pretty easy, and doesn't take long.
I will do this as well.
4a. reset the NVRAM, turn the key on and stomp the brake pedal until the oil pressure gauge moves.
Check.. Will also do this
5. test drive car, if its fine its fine, if you STILL get the code, then it is time for a compression check.
6. if it compression tests ok, you're on your own, but maybe its a vacuum leak? maybe one of the wires on the coil plug backed out?
Thanks for the response
02-13-2013, 07:24 PM
#10
i should say the wires on the connector between the engine harness and the coil.
02-13-2013, 10:16 PM
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A word on misfires.
1. I had a 110,000 mile old, 2004 build date 4 port engine with 50,000 mile old autozone coils, 2004 dated factory original plug wires, 50,000 mile old plugs IN THE WRONG HOLES (both L in rotor 1, both T in rotor 2), running off of an over 25% premix and 6 month old gas, 5.2 PEAK compression and the only way it would start is with 2 stroke oil injected in the LIM. No misfires according to the PCM. IN reality? The engine shook like a dog shitting tacks once it warmed up, and it sounded like a 4 cylinder engine with 2 HT leads pulled. i.e. it misfired very, very badly. But all was green up-up in whatever frigging universe the PCM was living in.
2. My new (to me), 19,000 mile engine with 8.2 compression avg (peak 8.4), brand new Mazda coils, brand new NGK wires, squeaky clean ESS and connector and brand new OEM plugs... according to the PCM I'd misfire at idle... my smooth as glass, zero (actual) misfire idle. PCM was screaming like the damn sky was falling and I was getting a "cylinder 2" misfire every 2 seconds, even at idle when in fact, the car was running as smooth as glass.
The fix? 20 brake stomp as mentioned above. Seriously.
A former member of this board put it best when he said, "your PCM wouldn't know a real misfire if it led to the car burning to the ground."
As has been mentioned a few times above, the 20 brake stomp should be the first thing you try to fix this.
Cheers
Ryan
1. I had a 110,000 mile old, 2004 build date 4 port engine with 50,000 mile old autozone coils, 2004 dated factory original plug wires, 50,000 mile old plugs IN THE WRONG HOLES (both L in rotor 1, both T in rotor 2), running off of an over 25% premix and 6 month old gas, 5.2 PEAK compression and the only way it would start is with 2 stroke oil injected in the LIM. No misfires according to the PCM. IN reality? The engine shook like a dog shitting tacks once it warmed up, and it sounded like a 4 cylinder engine with 2 HT leads pulled. i.e. it misfired very, very badly. But all was green up-up in whatever frigging universe the PCM was living in.
2. My new (to me), 19,000 mile engine with 8.2 compression avg (peak 8.4), brand new Mazda coils, brand new NGK wires, squeaky clean ESS and connector and brand new OEM plugs... according to the PCM I'd misfire at idle... my smooth as glass, zero (actual) misfire idle. PCM was screaming like the damn sky was falling and I was getting a "cylinder 2" misfire every 2 seconds, even at idle when in fact, the car was running as smooth as glass.
The fix? 20 brake stomp as mentioned above. Seriously.
A former member of this board put it best when he said, "your PCM wouldn't know a real misfire if it led to the car burning to the ground."
As has been mentioned a few times above, the 20 brake stomp should be the first thing you try to fix this.
Cheers
Ryan
02-13-2013, 10:33 PM
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That story does make me chuckle. It's not uncommon. I believe the "misfire detection" has to do with detecting "abnormal" lurching that would be expected from a misfire. In the first case the ECU probably couldn't tell what the baseline was to tell if it was abnormal or not, and in the 2nd it had such a perfect baseline that running into a bug on the highway was enough to detect the misfire 
Yes, the ECU detection is pretty suboptimal. Similar problems with detecting cat failure.
Yes, the ECU detection is pretty suboptimal. Similar problems with detecting cat failure.
02-14-2013, 06:39 AM
#13
1) When I was still NA I actually received a P0335 CEL from the ESS. It was all covered in crap and had a some piece of metal stuck to it. So not a Misfire code but a ESS code. Car ran like crap and wouldn't idle.
2) (Current setup) Yeah ... I have a small leak in the oil return line from the turbo and it eventually makes a mess of the ESS.
I start getting the flashing check engine light under high load.
I wipe off the ess and it doesn't come back until it's dirty again.
True I am correlating it to this and it could be something else and I'm boosted not NA .. sooooo it's different
And like you said no harm in wiping it down, especially when you're trying to eliminate possibilities.
Last edited by wcs; 02-14-2013 at 06:44 AM.
02-14-2013, 11:47 AM
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I did the 20 brake stomp procedure and so far so good. She hasn't misfired yet when she usually would have. Car is running like a champ and no more cel. Thanks for all the replies, and all of the help. You guys are truly awesome!
09-20-2013, 07:12 AM
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Cel has came back. But only missfires when I hover 5k rpm in manual mode for about 5+ seconds. Maybe time for an ls2 ignition upgrade? Thoughts?
11-14-2013, 12:20 AM
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I'm believing I really need to do my ignition after reading almost this now. 70k on the original parts. Even if those aren't the cause, id say she's still way overdue. Agree?
