Overheating!
 

So I live in the Phoenix AZ area. My car is an 05 AT Sport. Since the temps in Phoenix get into the 100's on a regular basis, my car tends to run hot.
I have brought it to the attention of my favorite dealer and they have been unable to cure the problem. They have changed the water pump, the thermostat and the radiator. And I'm on my fourth engine.
Mazda has sent their Engineers out twice to look at the car and try to figure it out. They installed foam strips around the shrouding for the radiator ducting. Had no effect. They did find that Mazda's Premix Coolant was 60% Antifreeze and 40% water. So we changed the ratio to 70% distilled water and 30% antifreeze and installed a bottle of Waterwetter. But to this day the car still runs hot when it's over 105 degrees.
This is what it was doing yesterday when it was between 111 and 114 degrees outside. I was monitoring the coolant temp with my Accessport.

This is what I saw,,,

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...rheating02.jpg

This pic was when I came to a stop at a traffic light, as soon as I took off from the light the temp went to 241 degrees for a about a minute.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...rheating01.jpg

The dealer is calling Mazda again and i will talk to them later and see what they found out.
I have the Mazmart waterpump and have not installed it yet. I was waiting to see what Mazda said about it. I don't want to burn up an engine and have them blame the waterpump, if you know what I mean.

So any ideas? I have discussed this at length with the knowledgeable people on the forum but at this point I'll take any suggestions. Other than "Don't drive the car"

Move to San Diego! That's what I did. Its a sticky 87 here today.

When I lived in Chandler, Warner road was gravel east of Stapley.

Mike

Let me ad "Move" to that list of suggestions that will not happen.

On a serious note, did you check the oil cooler(s) and lines. Oil is also an important equation in the cooling equation.

Mike

Oil cooler (1) is clean and clear. Lines appear OK. Short of disassembling the oil cooler system all is well.

They haven't given you a new 8 yet?? By now they should have concluded that you are their most patient and loyal customer. :eyetwitch


R3 at half price, maybe??


Good luck Easy.

:beerchug:

holy smokes EAsy!!!
the Mazmart water pump should help a little bit but I completely understand your hesitation.

Add a 2nd oil cooler. :)

Thanks DMC.
Hard to believe they can't fix this. I did settle the engine replacement matter with them. I was happy.
But why they can't solve this issue is beyond me.

Hmmmm R3,,,,, I was hoping to go another 2 years in this car before I get a new one.

Jedi, I bought that pump at SSX last year. I was waiting to see if what Mazda did would change anything. Of course it hasn't been hot enough until now to see if their fix worked. Obviously it didn't.
It seems the only thing we have'nt done is check the trans temps. If it is overheating then it will bring the coolant temp in the radiator up with it. AT you know. I checked it (trans pan) at MM's yesterday and it was the same as the coolant temps. 210.

yup, that's when I picked mine up as well. Personal delivery by Paul FTW.
I bolded part of the name because your original post has it listed as a mazsport pump. ;)

My last Mazda (626 / AT) had 'issues' with the transmission overheating all the time. I ended up getting a transmission fluid cooling unit.

Fixed the first post. Sorry Paul. :uhh:
I was thinking of doing that. Just disconnect the AT cooler from the radiator and install a separate cooler. But let me measure the temps again and see if that could be the problem. If I see high trans temps then I'll think about doing it.

if this has persisted through 4 engines then problem must be in remainder of cooling system. What about flow prob with radiator oil coolers or plumbing?

Erick,
I'm in the same boat. The only diffrence is mine is 10-15 degrees cooler. Oh BTW just cruising, no boosting.
That being said I know the BHR rad is making a diffrence. You or I need to install a 2nd oil cooler and verify our findings.

flow can be increased via the mazmart water pump BUT there's no guarantee that Mazda won't point the finger at it if this engine were to also fail. (this is the 4th engine in this car)

radiator might be problem. OEM I assume?

Have any AT owners added a 2nd oil cooler?

What type of oil and viscosity are you using? Maybe bump up to a higher viscosity.

Does the AT have one or two oil coolers? If it has one is it possible to install a second one?

Man, it's hot where you're at...

A/T = 1 oil cooler

As you saw yesterday, its pretty easy for me to get my temps out of control as well.
The high ambient heat and low humidity make the radiator completely ineffective.
I know my intercooler isn't helping air flow at all, but there is more to it than that.
I even hooked my washer bottle up to a set of misters and emptied the entire bottle on the rad to no avail.
At the car wash the other day, it took 30 seconds or more of direct, full-trigger spray on the rad to get the temps to fall.

At this point, the only things I can think to do are to experiment with coolant mixes. I might actually try a 50/50 mix or something closer to what Mazda delivered to you.
Completely counter-intuitive and contrary to conventional wisdom, but it is one of the few things that hasn't been tried.

backwards thinking??? I'm confused...

The radiator is new. OEM.
The problem is is that the trans cooler is in the radiator transferring more heat to the coolant.
This is one of the things Mazda goofed on with the AT. One engine oil cooler, trans cooler in radiator, diminished radiator capacity and additional heat due to trans cooler. I've been thinking about an additional engine oil cooler and seperating the trans cooler to a remote.
But the thing that bothers me about doing this is,,, Why didn't Mazda do this in the first place? Why should I have to spend extra money and time to make my car work the way it should have from the beginning?
Called the dealer today, also sent them the pics, and they are calling the Mazda Tech line to see if they have any answers. Other than the ones they already tried that didn't work.
As far as engine oil 5w-30 Castrol.

I have read on here that distiled water and water wetter helps(no antifreeze)less viscosity makes the water move faster. You can try this too it stops that super heated air from going into your engine and only takes a minute to do.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/no-more-detonation-%2Amiac%2A-121249/

let us know if this helps. Good luck...

Yeah, we've already done that.
I ran distilled only and then distilled and Water Wetter.
Now I add about 10% antifreeze and that seemed to slow the heat-up.
That is why I'm thinking the added mass of the anti-freeze might be a good thing.

Don't forget to fill your tires, Easy_E1.

dont run just water. the water pump needs a little lube, a 70/30 blend has worked the best for us. The DEI coolant stuff works better for us than the redline.
At those temps both of your fans are on BUT the air needs a way to escape. The head of mazdaspeed north america's nephrew--he was driving for roar racing at the time---told us that the only thing they really found to work was a second oil cooler and a vented hood.Even with that in extreme climates it is marginal at best.
20w50 oil is imho opinion a must for operating in that heat range.
The heat soak on these cars happens fast and like it has been said it recovers slowly indicating not much of a margin from being totally overwhelmed.
I understand why you do not want to install the pump---it does help but i dont think it will solve the prob.
We all know what it would take to solve it and that is:
1-vented hood
2-better water pump(electric water pump would be VERY NICE)
3- 70/30 blend coolant
4- a 180 thermostat(stock one is not fully open until after 200F!) barrel type
5- a better radiator with a better shroud--our fans are good but they need turning on at 180F and a better front air entry sealing.
6- separate a/t cooler
7- additional oil cooler
THEN your temps would be under control.
As it is , when that type weather good luck man.
olddragger

1. remove the battery box then relocate the battery.
2. Remove the original air filter box and its under tray, replace with a CAI with extension piping that reroute the air filter to somewhere else.
3. Get a 3 layer radiator.
4. A CF hood with ventilation hole.
5. If still not enough, can add fans in front of the aircond condenser.

Who is doing that? We just got done saying we are running blends.

Its chemically identical.

Roar doesn't use a vented hood. In fact, they don't even use fans!


Already doing that.

Maybe.

Probably not. Even a big Meziere won't move much more water in the ranges where overheating is occuring (under load and above 4000 RPM).

Already tried that. No dice.


How about NO thermostat? Tried that. No dice.


The OE shroud is pretty well designed for the fans they are using. I tried different shrouds, different fans and a different rad. None worked as well as the OE setup.
With the AP, the fans are coming on at 180°.

Those are good ideas and might be what is hurting Easy, but its not going to be all of the problem.

We can only hope but, as you go through the list as I've annotated it - probably not.

Done. No dice.

Done. No dice.

Restricting airflow even more isn't the answer. I've done the Koyo already. I'll try the BHR.

How about no hood at all? Tried it. No dice.

Once again, restricting airflow even more is not the solution and a pusher fan is a horrible idea.

The problem is a combination of factors:

1. A thermally inefficient motor
2. Low mass of the motor itself
3. The rad is not aligned with airflow
4. Nearly zero relative humidity
5. High ambient temps
6. Constant A/C usage

^that post made me lol...best post.....ever :lol2:

There's your problem right there!

I'm surprised you didn't notice!



Mu ha ha.........................

I've had roughly the opposite situaion with my vehicle which probably makes the situation more frustrating. Granted, I'm running N/A unlike MM who has the added turbo and intercooler setup.

Easy, I think your trans temperatures might have something to do with it. I have been told that running the vehicle in sportronic mode tends to make it run hotter than just keeping it in drive. This was on a Mazda 6 though.

My current setup for cooling is as follows for reference:
1. Seibon vented hood
2. Race battery (removed tray)
3. Koyo Radiator
4. Distilled water w/ redline water wetter
5. Mazmart water pump
6. MM fan switch
7. 1.3 bar radiator cap

My temps with the heat have been around the 205 to 210 range at the most. The oil temperatures have been the bottle neck in my cooling system and often drive up my coolant temps.

I also have a fully gutted front bumper with wire mesh instead of the plastic.

And life goes on.
As I stated before,, why should I have to do all this to car that should not be doing what it's doing in the first place. This car should be made to work in these temps. Mazda needs to figure this out and fix it. Otherwise not sell the car in warm climates. Like that would work.
An additional oil cooler and separate trans cooler would be nice. Might solve part of the problem, if not all.
Also not shifting in manual mode,,, Sorry but I just can't. I might as well be driving a Honda civic.
Oh and I want to see you guy's run around when it's 120 degrees out with the AC off.

good luck Easy, keep us posted

I say install the water pump, it's only going to HELP. you already have it, might as well.
If the engine should ever go, take it off, slap the OEM one back one. they'll never know.

*slap the OEM one back one.*

correction

*slap the OEM one back ON*

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So I went to the dealer today and asked them what they found out from Mazda. .Well this is what they said. "Take the hood off". OK. SO they took my hood off and said to me to "Go drive around and see what happens". Now at this point in time I am thinking , wtf? this is it? OK I'll go drive around.
So off on my merry way I went.
Outside air temps 106. Car temps while in stop and go traffic 243 degrees.
Well this just eliminated all kinds of things. Not enough air flow,, not. I'll post some pics later when I get back to my computer. I'm hijacking MM's puter again.
Well I emailed the pics to the dealer. They will send them to "Techline"and I'll await a new trouble shooting scenario.
So they reinstalled my hood. I left thinking to myself,,, "that was fun".

OMFG!!!! I can't believe that was their genius plan!

What if it worked?! What would the have you do?! Take the hood off for the summer months??? :rofl:

rofl ! wow. what kind of *smart ass plan* was that ?

Why dont they just give you another car already? yeah Lemon law period is over, but at this rate. Mazda is just wasting their money to keep checking it.

Perhaps you have a blockage and the fluid is not recircuilating.

Learned something from this thread - Despite what everyone says the OEM water temp guage actually does work !!!!!

that ambient temp you have there is insane , no wonder your poor rotary can't hack the pace . Face it - you will have to do mods to keep it cool . Mazda will not be able to fix it .

You know Mazda has to look at all the variables in the system. So far they have changed all the elements in the cooling system. Rad, Coolant and the mixture, thermostat, waterpump and don't forget the engine a few times.

It just seems to me that the cooling system is just completely inadequate.

This is what I saw today during there testing procedure. It was about 108 degrees outside.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...rheating03.jpg

So I figure I will install the Mazmart waterpump this weekend. See what it does.

All in all I just hope that Mazda can learn from this so it doesn't happen to other people.
And if there any other people that are overheating I would like to know. All information is helpful to Mazda.

Sorry, Overheating = No Fun!

I'm 100% with you Erick that it shouldn't be up to the owner to mod their own vehicle to make it do what it should be doing already from the factory. Sure, Phoenix does see some pretty insane temperatures and combined with an already hot rotary it makes things worse.

Still, we can't ignore the fact that many other RX8's roll around Phoenix without any major cooling issues. It may or may not be something localized to your vehicle, but I would have expected Mazda to come up with something better than rolling around with your hood off. So what would have happened IF that would have worked?!? Are you supposed to drive without a HOOD ON?

I am curious if there is something to be investigated in regards to your transmission cooling. We've swapped motors so any localized motor issue would have to be eliminated. There's not much, if anything, left to rule out besides the tranny.

A pump install would certainly help rule out more issues. At the same time, I would be expecting Mazda to perform this trouble shooting.

Those numbers are pretty insane.

Hell with Mazda's flash, I've seen 105 Celsius(221 F !!!) when its only like 75 F outside.

They need to figure a way to get more air to move around the engine bay ... I think the way they position the A/C Condenser is just stupid, it block almost ALL of the direct air flow from the front to the Radiator ...

I hear ya Todd. If the engine is such a hot running package from the get go,,, then why didn't they make the cooling system more than just adequate? They knew the RX-7 was prone to overheating , that should have told them something.

Well I was checking the trans temps yesterday during all this and it seems to be running cool. At least when the car was at 220 the trans was at 210. Seemed to be about 10 degrees lower on the trans temp. Blasted tthe trans pan with my Infrared Temp Gun. I will look at that further though, at higher temps.

I think they should just give you another car.

They've replaced 4 engines on ur car already + all other stuff that they've replaced + Labor = probably cheaper to give you a brand new car.

right nofans in front of the a/c condensor! Maybe in back of an oilcoller?
1- Roar Racing does not sit in traffic, the study mentioned was from Mazda research not Roar Racing. It was a Roar Racing driver that informed me of this.

2- shake a bottle of redline water wetter then shake a bottle of the DEI. Now notice a difference. The redline will foam like crazy , the dei doesnt---foam is not good in a cooling system.
3- The thing about electric water pump is it is not dependant on engine rpm --so the flow is there even at idle/slow speed and even at shut down the pump can be programed to run for a time to combant heat soak. if 55 gallons a minute cant cool it then the big blocks with 700hp need to be told.
4- agreed the shrouds/fans are good , turning the fans on early is really good---the front air entry area is not sealed well and there is leakage present. note of interest-- if you use the rb air scoop you have a recirculation swirl at the top of the radiator further reducing efficiency.
5- also agree to get rid of all the blockage present.

I wonder if the a/c condensor was moved (to where --i have NO idea) then how much would that help?

A water meth system can save the internals--reducing iats and egts--but a owner of the 8 should not have to do that.
I saw a 2009 a/t car yesterday---it still has only one oil cooler. And the grill , the actual openings form the shape of a grin. Damn.
feel for yall Bro.
olddragger

Easy, maybe MM can look into a cooler running engine tune for you? In a piston engine, backing off spark advance and running a little richer did wonders for dropping temps (not that 8s need to run richer).

Just an idea.

Another thing I didn't see was running a more open exhaust may lower temps too. Still have the cat in there?

Look like everything else was covered, but my first vote would be to get the transmission its own cooler for both the tranny and the engine's sake. Should be one of the cheaper things to try too.

And yeah, Mazda should have / should still fix this issue. But corporations are bureaucracies, and if they don't have it in the rules book they will not do it unless pushed hard.

My summer cooling doesn't seem to be too bad, with all the SUVs staying home. But I don't drive that much lately.

random question easy: you got any other A/T owners in your area? I'm wondering if they have similar readings

Does this run hot in all conditions, idling, hard acceleration and highway cruising? When is it at it's worst?

Pressure test the entire system to ensure there are no leaks including your expansion tank and pressure cap. This will tell you whether there's something wrong internally with the motor as well. Check your fan operation and ensure that they are both coming on when they should. Bad fan/s could have damaged all of the motors you've had.

Lastly, I do have the R side factory coolers and lines in stock, brand new for those autos that would like to enhance their cooling.

Paul.

I am having some overheating issues also but my 8 is pretty much down (except for real short trips) until Ray and Jeff get here so I can't do too much testing.

oh oh, what happened Phil?

I have two pages of single line warranty repairs on this car. A new car would be nice but it isn't going to happen. Some day I'll copy the list and show you all. Nearly double what I paid for the car.


I was PM'ing a local girl with an 06 AT. She say's the car is not liking the heat. I need to call her and talk about it more though.

As far as when it does it,, stop and go traffic, getting up to cruising speed after entering freeway via a metered ramp. lower RPM's tend to keep it cooler if you can not change throttle position, kinda hard. Hard acceleration,, forget it. It's like lighting a fire under it. Any load on the engine will raise the temps.
Driving home from work today 115 degrees out side, 3.5 miles home, 1 stop light nothing over 3000 rpm. Coolant went from 161 to 218. I did the same drive after the dealer yesterday and it went to 226
The entire cooling system is new, including the radiator, water pump, coolant, thermostat, and overflow bottle and cap.
The cooling system has been checked and rechecked. The fans are set to come on at 180 and 185.
Paul I want to install your water pump I have and am waiting for a response from Mazda on it. They have heard of your pump too. :) As I mentioned before, I do not want to install it and then the engine dies and they say SOL.