Just bought an rx-8 with a couple problems
03-06-2012, 02:22 AM
#1
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Just bought an rx-8 with a couple problems
I just got an 04 with manual trans and 130k miles for a steal cause it has a couple problems. Ive searched a bunch but cant seem to turn up much useful information. It starts fine cold but if I drive it then shut it down I either have to wait a while for it to start or do the flood procedure a bunch of times. I can smell fuel sometimes too. It also doesnt like to idle. I can get it to stabilize at 1000 sometimes by playin with the gas but most the time it will just go too low and shut down. But the weirdest part is even when I get it to idle when I press the clutch pedal it dies. Also if i just sit there and hold the revs around 1500 and press the clutch pedal they drop to about 1000. The cel is on but I havent had it scanned yet so Ill update when I do that and the low coolant light is on too but it has plenty of coolant. Other than that it runs great. Ive already cleaned the maf and the guy I got it from said he just changed the coils. Any ideas?
Last edited by DustinP; 03-06-2012 at 02:39 AM.
03-06-2012, 02:38 AM
#2
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...=1#post3666147
youre welcome. and Welcome to the addiction!
sounds like its time for some Maintenance.
1. does the CEL blink?
2. drive it hard for a bit, then look under your car and check if the cat glows, if it does your cat is gone.
3. the coolant sensor on our cars tends to go out, just unplug it and the light will never come back on, just make sure your coolant isnt going low.
4. Yes, you might wanna replace all your coils, spark plugs and spark plug wires. Simple DIY even a noob can do it with very little experience and tools
heres my own DIY for replacing the coils https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-mazda-ignition-coils-pics-178515/
5. also you might have a weak starter, might wanna replace that too, i forgot if that was a Recall and if it isnt its no longer covered under your warranty, look in the FS section and find a good one, or you can go to Autozone and get one just make sure you get a '07 or newer.
youre welcome. and Welcome to the addiction!
sounds like its time for some Maintenance.
1. does the CEL blink?
2. drive it hard for a bit, then look under your car and check if the cat glows, if it does your cat is gone.
3. the coolant sensor on our cars tends to go out, just unplug it and the light will never come back on, just make sure your coolant isnt going low.
4. Yes, you might wanna replace all your coils, spark plugs and spark plug wires. Simple DIY even a noob can do it with very little experience and tools
heres my own DIY for replacing the coils https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-mazda-ignition-coils-pics-178515/
5. also you might have a weak starter, might wanna replace that too, i forgot if that was a Recall and if it isnt its no longer covered under your warranty, look in the FS section and find a good one, or you can go to Autozone and get one just make sure you get a '07 or newer.
03-06-2012, 03:18 AM
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Thanks for the reply. Anyway, no it's not misfiring. I've actually already read that link but looks like I'll just have to start tryin stuff. The funny thing is I actually went to college for auto service but they never taught us about rotaries cause theyre so uncommon. So far I'm lovin the car even in spite of the problems. So I just walk in Autozone and tell em I wanna starter for an 07 instead of an 04?
03-06-2012, 03:28 AM
#4
yeah, colleges tend to leave the rotary out, most of the professors dont know jack **** about em. courses like that are meant for the "common car" not sports cars. i took a few too and i always stumped the professor (thanks to this forum about rotaries). they pretty much teach you common knowledge about vehicles.
But yeah, if you go to autozone let them know you have an 07 rx8, anything before that might be weaker and most likely will give out on you.
But yeah, if you go to autozone let them know you have an 07 rx8, anything before that might be weaker and most likely will give out on you.
03-06-2012, 03:32 AM
#5
^^^
add the fuel pump to the mix at 130k miles.
I hope you really didn't pay much for the car because a new engine, ignition setup, possibly cat and fuel pump look like some of the things you need.
add the fuel pump to the mix at 130k miles.
I hope you really didn't pay much for the car because a new engine, ignition setup, possibly cat and fuel pump look like some of the things you need.
03-06-2012, 08:51 AM
#6
No matter what you do here, you're likely to spend some change to get this fixed.
Here are some things you can do to increase savings.
1. Test your plugs and coils. Easiest way is to source/purchase a tester.
2. Check to see which starter you have.
3. While you're under your car, pull down the front end of your cat converter, shine a flashlight in there and see if there is any damage or clogging.
4. Test your battery. Make sure it's connected properly.
5. Locate a rotary specific compression tester. Some members here rent them out. Where are you located?
It helps if you have use of a car shop to use. Most of the issues you may have can be verified quite easily, if you have the tools (which are not expensive). It could save you a lot of hassle down the road!
Good luck and keep us posted
Here are some things you can do to increase savings.
1. Test your plugs and coils. Easiest way is to source/purchase a tester.
2. Check to see which starter you have.
3. While you're under your car, pull down the front end of your cat converter, shine a flashlight in there and see if there is any damage or clogging.
4. Test your battery. Make sure it's connected properly.
5. Locate a rotary specific compression tester. Some members here rent them out. Where are you located?
It helps if you have use of a car shop to use. Most of the issues you may have can be verified quite easily, if you have the tools (which are not expensive). It could save you a lot of hassle down the road!
Good luck and keep us posted
03-06-2012, 03:09 PM
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I took it for a rip last night to see if I could get the cat to glow and it didnt happen.
I think I got a pretty good deal cause this car his all the bells and whistles plus the interior, paint and body are in excellent shape. Heres the good part, I traded a sport bike(worth about 3.2k) straight across for it.
Tools are no problem for me. Like I said, I went to college for a couple years for this cause I planned on doing it for a career. Needless to say I have quite a collection of tools.
In my experience with piston engines if low compression is a problem they lose power and generally start better when they are warm. Just the opposite of whats goin on with this car.
The guy I got it from said he had it scanned and came up with an ess code and an o2s code. Im gonna have it scanned again because I wanna be sure plus Id like to know what specific codes they are. I might get time to do that later today. Ill let you guys know what comes up.
Like I said before, the guy claims to have just replaced the coils. He also said that the idling problem started when he changed the battery. So Im assuming the battery is fresh.
I live in Northwest Arkansas.
How would I go about identifying which starter is on the car?
Also just thought Id throw in that there are 3 blue tags on the driver side door jamb that say Mazda Authorized Modification with some stuff written on them but I cant read the rest because its faded. I was thinkin maybe its had recall or tsb work done.
I think I got a pretty good deal cause this car his all the bells and whistles plus the interior, paint and body are in excellent shape. Heres the good part, I traded a sport bike(worth about 3.2k) straight across for it.
Tools are no problem for me. Like I said, I went to college for a couple years for this cause I planned on doing it for a career. Needless to say I have quite a collection of tools.
In my experience with piston engines if low compression is a problem they lose power and generally start better when they are warm. Just the opposite of whats goin on with this car.
The guy I got it from said he had it scanned and came up with an ess code and an o2s code. Im gonna have it scanned again because I wanna be sure plus Id like to know what specific codes they are. I might get time to do that later today. Ill let you guys know what comes up.
Like I said before, the guy claims to have just replaced the coils. He also said that the idling problem started when he changed the battery. So Im assuming the battery is fresh.
I live in Northwest Arkansas.
How would I go about identifying which starter is on the car?
Also just thought Id throw in that there are 3 blue tags on the driver side door jamb that say Mazda Authorized Modification with some stuff written on them but I cant read the rest because its faded. I was thinkin maybe its had recall or tsb work done.
Last edited by DustinP; 03-06-2012 at 03:12 PM.
03-06-2012, 03:21 PM
#8
Check that the coil wires are hooked up properly....If he DIY...could be wrong. Reset the ESS..can't hurt 
the idle is mostly Trailing plugs...so if it runs fine at higher RPM..and idles like crap..pull the plugs and see if they are firing properly..the car will run off idle with failed T coils...but will barely idle
I would get a compression check if you have a way to get one...the rotary will have warm start problems and lower vac when the engine is on it's way out...unlike a piston engine that will often get better vac after it is warmed up. A quick check is to check the vac at idle when it is warm.....if it is less than 13 that isn't a good sign. Often you can help the motor out with a good anti carbon treatment....if the seals are just sticky..that often will help your compression
the idle is mostly Trailing plugs...so if it runs fine at higher RPM..and idles like crap..pull the plugs and see if they are firing properly..the car will run off idle with failed T coils...but will barely idle
I would get a compression check if you have a way to get one...the rotary will have warm start problems and lower vac when the engine is on it's way out...unlike a piston engine that will often get better vac after it is warmed up. A quick check is to check the vac at idle when it is warm.....if it is less than 13 that isn't a good sign. Often you can help the motor out with a good anti carbon treatment....if the seals are just sticky..that often will help your compression
03-06-2012, 04:12 PM
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I thought of the carbon treatment but, have heard differing opinions about it. Ive never been one to use that kinda stuff anyway but, Ill definately give it some thought.
Once the car gets goin down the road it runs great. I drove it over 4 hours to get it home without a hiccup and have drove it at least another 50 miles since I got it home and its still doin good.
Ive never drove an rx-8 before this one so I have nothing to compare it to but, it seems to have plenty of power. In first gear if you turn the wheels and get on the gas itll spin around pretty quick on you. Thats not popping the clutch or anything. Pure accelerator pedal.
Once the car gets goin down the road it runs great. I drove it over 4 hours to get it home without a hiccup and have drove it at least another 50 miles since I got it home and its still doin good.
Ive never drove an rx-8 before this one so I have nothing to compare it to but, it seems to have plenty of power. In first gear if you turn the wheels and get on the gas itll spin around pretty quick on you. Thats not popping the clutch or anything. Pure accelerator pedal.
03-06-2012, 06:54 PM
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Ok, just got back from scanning the car and I came up with 3 codes.
P0037 o2s heater control circuit low voltage bank 1 sensor 2. So i figure I'll replace the sensor and check the cat while I'm under there.
P0850 park/neutral switch input circuit fault. I was thinking the clutch pedal sensor is bad due to the rpm drop when depressed but the neutral switch is a completely different thing isn't it? I thought a bad neutral switch would cause weird things to happen only when shifting in and out of neutral.
P0456 small evap system leak. I'm gonna chalk this one up to me refueling while the car is running(due to the hot start problem).
No ess code. So either the former owner was misinformed or it's intermittent and it's been through enough drive cycles to reset. Might be worth looking at anyhow.
I did both the kam and nvram reset procedures. It didn't help anything.
On the bright side I just drove another 40 miles with no problems other than the norm.
P0037 o2s heater control circuit low voltage bank 1 sensor 2. So i figure I'll replace the sensor and check the cat while I'm under there.
P0850 park/neutral switch input circuit fault. I was thinking the clutch pedal sensor is bad due to the rpm drop when depressed but the neutral switch is a completely different thing isn't it? I thought a bad neutral switch would cause weird things to happen only when shifting in and out of neutral.
P0456 small evap system leak. I'm gonna chalk this one up to me refueling while the car is running(due to the hot start problem).
No ess code. So either the former owner was misinformed or it's intermittent and it's been through enough drive cycles to reset. Might be worth looking at anyhow.
I did both the kam and nvram reset procedures. It didn't help anything.
On the bright side I just drove another 40 miles with no problems other than the norm.
03-07-2012, 04:48 AM
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You might need to update your computer (ya the car will try to die on you if it needs to be updated), far as the coolant, that would be your sensor that needs to be replaced (gone bad or is dirty). Goodyear can fix these issues, that's where I went.
03-07-2012, 10:09 AM
#12
difficult hot starts are usually sign of a low compression so buying this car might not turn out to be such a good deal. hopefully that is not the case but I would start with compression test.
03-07-2012, 11:41 AM
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I talked to the former owner last night and he only had the money to replace 3 coils when he did it and Im assuming he did it himself. He also said he beleives it's been about 7 months since a plug change and he doesn't know when the last time the wires were changed.
So Im gonna start with that and looking at the cat. If it doesnt work it won't matter cause I wouldve done that for maintenance anyway since I just got the car.
How do I tell if I have the updated starter?
So Im gonna start with that and looking at the cat. If it doesnt work it won't matter cause I wouldve done that for maintenance anyway since I just got the car.
How do I tell if I have the updated starter?
03-08-2012, 03:06 AM
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Ok so the cat checked out just fine and I have the ignition parts ordered. I did find something though that could be bad. Out of curiosity I pressurized the cooling system. What I found was a slow leak. It doesn't even drip when the car is off. I know it cant be leaking much with how much Ive diven the car and the coolant doesn't appear to be any lower.
The bad part is it was getting dark on me and I didn't have time to jack it up to look from underneath and I can't see exactly where it's coming from when above. It's just underneath the thermostat housing so hopefully that's what's leaking. If not then it looks like I'll be pulling the engine to do a rebuild. I'll at leat drive it a while first though and just keep an eye on things.
I'm thinking before I put new plugs in I'll run some seafoam through it then do the ATF trick after I'm sure the seafoam is burnt out of the engine. Just to see if this stuff really helps more than anything.
By the way, has anyone wondered why everything for this car has to be so expensive? $30 for a coil, $90 for a set of plugs, $90 for a neutral switch. I don't think the parts are THAT special. I figure if a sport bike engine that's made specifically for racing can use $2 plugs this engine would be just fine with em.
The bad part is it was getting dark on me and I didn't have time to jack it up to look from underneath and I can't see exactly where it's coming from when above. It's just underneath the thermostat housing so hopefully that's what's leaking. If not then it looks like I'll be pulling the engine to do a rebuild. I'll at leat drive it a while first though and just keep an eye on things.
I'm thinking before I put new plugs in I'll run some seafoam through it then do the ATF trick after I'm sure the seafoam is burnt out of the engine. Just to see if this stuff really helps more than anything.
By the way, has anyone wondered why everything for this car has to be so expensive? $30 for a coil, $90 for a set of plugs, $90 for a neutral switch. I don't think the parts are THAT special. I figure if a sport bike engine that's made specifically for racing can use $2 plugs this engine would be just fine with em.
Last edited by DustinP; 03-08-2012 at 03:15 AM.
03-08-2012, 09:54 AM
#15
doing the heavy seafoam and ATF treatment is good idea before you change plugs. It certainly wont hurt anything..who knows maybe you have some stuck seals in there..
get a cheap compression gauge from auto parts store and run the compression test(record needle bounces for all 3 rotor faces) before and after the treatments. it would be very interesting to see if they make any difference.
get a cheap compression gauge from auto parts store and run the compression test(record needle bounces for all 3 rotor faces) before and after the treatments. it would be very interesting to see if they make any difference.
03-08-2012, 01:27 PM
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I already have a good compression gauge but, yeah I'll be sure to do that. It'll at leat make for an interesting experiment. However, due to some things I read elsewhere on the internet about the ATF treatment I think I'll use premix in leu of the ATF.
Well it looks I, most likely, won't be doing much, if any, work on the car today because the weather turned cold and wet all of a sudden. I guess that's to be expected in Arkansas though.
If I do get to find the coolant leak, install the new ignition parts or run some seafoam through it I'll tell you guys know what happens.
Oh, and by the way what kinda numbers should a rotary put up on a piston engine compression tester?
Well it looks I, most likely, won't be doing much, if any, work on the car today because the weather turned cold and wet all of a sudden. I guess that's to be expected in Arkansas though.
If I do get to find the coolant leak, install the new ignition parts or run some seafoam through it I'll tell you guys know what happens.
Oh, and by the way what kinda numbers should a rotary put up on a piston engine compression tester?
Last edited by DustinP; 03-08-2012 at 01:50 PM.
03-08-2012, 10:50 PM
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Maybe it'll be a little nicer out tomorrow so I can work on the car a little. I found an article on how to use a regular comp. tester on a rotary so maybe that'll be helpful.
One more little thing I wanna toss out there. I thought the fuel shutoff was at 9500 from the factory on these cars... I hit 10k today and, it doesnt have any sort of programmer.
One more little thing I wanna toss out there. I thought the fuel shutoff was at 9500 from the factory on these cars... I hit 10k today and, it doesnt have any sort of programmer.
03-09-2012, 03:09 PM
#18
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When you are up that high in RPMs the needle can be off by a good bit, I think every car is different. https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/rx8-redline-revlimit-system-143791/
03-09-2012, 05:07 PM
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Thanks for the answer. After I posted that, I actually found that thread.
Well I just did the compression test. The front rotor showed 75psi on all faces and the rear 60psi on all faces. So the rear is a little low but not too bad. On the plus side, the readings are consistent for all faces so the apex seals and side seals must be in decent shape.
I just put the seafoam in the engine and I'm waiting for it to soak. I'll do another comp. test after to see if it helped anything. But, of course, something had to go wrong. The rubbber cover that goes over the front vac nipple on the intake manifold was stuck and, I ended up tearing it to pieces to get it off. Guess I'll have to find something to go over it 'til I get to the auto parts store and get a proper one.
When I took the plugs out they were black and a little wet plus I could smell some fuel on them. So I'm getting too much fuel or not enough air it would seem.
On a side note, this car is a bad word to work on.
Well I just did the compression test. The front rotor showed 75psi on all faces and the rear 60psi on all faces. So the rear is a little low but not too bad. On the plus side, the readings are consistent for all faces so the apex seals and side seals must be in decent shape.
I just put the seafoam in the engine and I'm waiting for it to soak. I'll do another comp. test after to see if it helped anything. But, of course, something had to go wrong. The rubbber cover that goes over the front vac nipple on the intake manifold was stuck and, I ended up tearing it to pieces to get it off. Guess I'll have to find something to go over it 'til I get to the auto parts store and get a proper one.
When I took the plugs out they were black and a little wet plus I could smell some fuel on them. So I'm getting too much fuel or not enough air it would seem.
On a side note, this car is a bad word to work on.
Last edited by DustinP; 03-09-2012 at 05:11 PM.
03-10-2012, 11:31 PM
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I found out today the leak is out of a radiator hose. Dodged a bullet on that one.
Other than that didn't figure much out. I have the neutral switch ordered. Beside that the starter is all I can figure to do.
Do you guys think having the computer updated by mazda would help this problem? Or If I could get a hypertech programmer or cobb tuning programmer to do the same thing I would prob do that.
Other than that didn't figure much out. I have the neutral switch ordered. Beside that the starter is all I can figure to do.
Do you guys think having the computer updated by mazda would help this problem? Or If I could get a hypertech programmer or cobb tuning programmer to do the same thing I would prob do that.
Last edited by DustinP; 03-10-2012 at 11:33 PM.
03-10-2012, 11:47 PM
#21
Those are really low compression numbers.
LOL 75 psi is horrible and 60psi lol well that is epic fail ... unless you live at an altitude of 10000 feet .. you're engine is screwed.
New engine time stop throwing money at the other items
Or ... or!
If you have the old style starter which was crap on the 04 and 05's .. go buy the upgraded starter.
Believe me it makes a world of difference.
My motor with the old starter produces about 70 psi across the board ( I have an 05) and the old starter was terrible for starting.
I bought the upgraded starter and it fires up right away.
Doesn't solve the problem that your engine has low compression but hey .... it starts and that's a win
LOL 75 psi is horrible and 60psi lol well that is epic fail ... unless you live at an altitude of 10000 feet .. you're engine is screwed.
New engine time stop throwing money at the other items
Or ... or!
If you have the old style starter which was crap on the 04 and 05's .. go buy the upgraded starter.
Believe me it makes a world of difference.
My motor with the old starter produces about 70 psi across the board ( I have an 05) and the old starter was terrible for starting.
I bought the upgraded starter and it fires up right away.
Doesn't solve the problem that your engine has low compression but hey .... it starts and that's a win
Last edited by wcs; 03-10-2012 at 11:58 PM.
03-11-2012, 12:06 AM
#22
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Its probably a compression issue, cold starts SAI is injecting air (high idle) to warm up converters and fuel system is in open loop dumping fuel in, but when everything is warmed up it goes into close loop trying to get to lambda (14.7 AFR). If you have compression issues combustion may not happen (rough idle, rich AFR, engine bogs and dies) and you get a bunch of un burnt fuel, which could explain why you have to deflood the engine to get it back running. Most likely need to rebuild the engine and replace seals. its a pretty common thing for rotaries to blow seals, unfortunately for you what may have been a "good deal" may not.
03-11-2012, 12:10 AM
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when I did a compression test last year i was at 110-120 psi, which was average. I can't seem to find my service manual graph but 60-70 psi seems low, what was the starter rpm at?
