How do I know if I need new ignition coil?
10-09-2013, 10:41 AM
#151
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Advance Auto
Coils: BWD/Intermotor Ignition Coil-E1001 - Advance Auto Parts
$35 x 4
Plugs:
NGK Laser Iridium Spark Plug (RE9B-T)-6701 - Advance Auto Parts
$20 x 2
NGK Laser Iridium Spark Plug (RE7C-L)-6700 - Advance Auto Parts
$20 x2
Wires:
NGK Ignition Wire Set-4858 - Advance Auto Parts
$32
Total = $254
Then, Advance has near constant running discounts, currently it's 15% off + $25 off a future order. It's relatively easy though to find 25-30% off, as the specials change monthly, plus other coupons floating around.
And it's all free shipping to your door.
And it's all under warranty against defect (which defects happen, but aren't common)
Yes, they are the early coil revision, so you still have to change the coils every 30k or so, but at the price I find it acceptable.
Coils: BWD/Intermotor Ignition Coil-E1001 - Advance Auto Parts
$35 x 4
Plugs:
NGK Laser Iridium Spark Plug (RE9B-T)-6701 - Advance Auto Parts
$20 x 2
NGK Laser Iridium Spark Plug (RE7C-L)-6700 - Advance Auto Parts
$20 x2
Wires:
NGK Ignition Wire Set-4858 - Advance Auto Parts
$32
Total = $254
Then, Advance has near constant running discounts, currently it's 15% off + $25 off a future order. It's relatively easy though to find 25-30% off, as the specials change monthly, plus other coupons floating around.
And it's all free shipping to your door.
And it's all under warranty against defect (which defects happen, but aren't common)
Yes, they are the early coil revision, so you still have to change the coils every 30k or so, but at the price I find it acceptable.
Last edited by RIWWP; 10-09-2013 at 10:44 AM.
10-09-2013, 06:49 PM
#152
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Sounds funny, just what I went through, except my check engine light went on and I had a pretty good miss. So I brought it to my local Mazda dealer and told me it was my Catalytic Converter and to be on the safe side, he offer to replace my Coils, Wires and Plugs. At the discounted price of $2700.
Wish I found this site, a lot of good info
Wish I found this site, a lot of good info
10-10-2013, 09:06 AM
#154
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Ya, that's what I said, and new I wasn't putting that kind of money into the car. So the Dealership did a little research and found the car was still under warranty, so I got the Catalytic Converter under warranty.
But the kicker was, that wasn't the problem. It was a Bad Coil, and raw gas was passing threw into the Catalytic Converter. So the Dealership claiming Catalytic Converter needed to be replaced because it was plugged and far to hot, was wrong and it was the Raw Gas burning in the Catalytic Converter.
I changed the Coils myself, took me a little while to locate them, but in the end it was easy and fixed the problem.
But the kicker was, that wasn't the problem. It was a Bad Coil, and raw gas was passing threw into the Catalytic Converter. So the Dealership claiming Catalytic Converter needed to be replaced because it was plugged and far to hot, was wrong and it was the Raw Gas burning in the Catalytic Converter.
I changed the Coils myself, took me a little while to locate them, but in the end it was easy and fixed the problem.
10-10-2013, 09:44 AM
#155
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Actually, in that case, the dealership was right. Ignition failures kill cats VERY fast through that exact means. Fixing the ignition wasn't going to suddenly heal the cat, and a clogged cat can cause misfires too. It's part of the cascading failure effect that we see all too often here.
The dealership knew your cat was under warranty before they gave you that estimate by the way... Doesn't take any research to see. It was just an attempt to see if they could get you to pay it out of ignorance.
The dealership knew your cat was under warranty before they gave you that estimate by the way... Doesn't take any research to see. It was just an attempt to see if they could get you to pay it out of ignorance.
10-11-2013, 08:25 AM
#156
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May be correct, but the only method they seem to use to detect a failing Catalytic Converter is, is it excessively hot, and in my case the bad coil was allowing gas to flow directly threw the engine and burn in the Catalytic Converter. Also, since they service the car every 3 thousand miles, should have been showing tell tale signs or notice that it was getting excessively hot, or CO2 light (I believe that's what it's called) was on.
Just in my opinion they should have suggested fixing the Coil first, but they did search quickly to find some way of punching their bill, glad it was under warranty.
I replaced the Coils and the car runs better then ever.
Just in my opinion they should have suggested fixing the Coil first, but they did search quickly to find some way of punching their bill, glad it was under warranty.
I replaced the Coils and the car runs better then ever.
10-11-2013, 08:48 AM
#157
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Many of the assumptions you have are incorrect.
1) A clogging cat will typically never throw a CEL until it is bad enough to start causing misfires. The reason for this is that even though it is clogged, the exhaust getting through IS still being cleaned, so the ECU sees everything as fine.
2) There is really no test the dealers are aware of at all to detect or recognize a clogging cat. None. I suspect that a clogging cat could be detected through monitoring of the OBD2 reported cat temp, but you have to specifically look at that while driving, and compare the current value with the known healthy value of the cat from weeks/months/years before. The dealership doesn't keep that kind of information. Most dealers don't even acknowledge that a clogged cat IS a failure.
3) Ignition coils are NOT part of the officially recognized maintenance items, and dealers have NO official information that coils can fail easily. As far as dealers are concerned, coils are supposed to be lifetime. It's only dealers with smart techs that pay attention to things that realize that coils fail easily and should be replaced regularly.
4) The official Mazda ignition coil test is complete garbage. A coil can be barely firing and causing misfires all over the place and it can still pass the official test.
5) Even if the dealer services the car regularly, you still bring it there for specific services, like an oil change. Even if the dealer actually does do the regular inspection, you will notice that no where on the inspection is "perform coil test" or "perform cat test" (even if they were useful). The dealer won't be going and performing other services to test for stuff that they would have to bill you for that you didn't order
It's my single biggest complaint with people that service their cars at dealerships and assume the dealer covers literally everything. There is a lot that dealers are completely ignorant about, and owners need to be very aware of what is going on with their car.
So, now you know that you need to replace the coils regularly, and to be aware of any changes in power, mileage, or rev stability to get that first hint that the coils, wires, and/or plugs are starting to fail.
Don't forget about the other critical areas of maintenance either, cooling system and oil system.
1) A clogging cat will typically never throw a CEL until it is bad enough to start causing misfires. The reason for this is that even though it is clogged, the exhaust getting through IS still being cleaned, so the ECU sees everything as fine.
2) There is really no test the dealers are aware of at all to detect or recognize a clogging cat. None. I suspect that a clogging cat could be detected through monitoring of the OBD2 reported cat temp, but you have to specifically look at that while driving, and compare the current value with the known healthy value of the cat from weeks/months/years before. The dealership doesn't keep that kind of information. Most dealers don't even acknowledge that a clogged cat IS a failure.
3) Ignition coils are NOT part of the officially recognized maintenance items, and dealers have NO official information that coils can fail easily. As far as dealers are concerned, coils are supposed to be lifetime. It's only dealers with smart techs that pay attention to things that realize that coils fail easily and should be replaced regularly.
4) The official Mazda ignition coil test is complete garbage. A coil can be barely firing and causing misfires all over the place and it can still pass the official test.
5) Even if the dealer services the car regularly, you still bring it there for specific services, like an oil change. Even if the dealer actually does do the regular inspection, you will notice that no where on the inspection is "perform coil test" or "perform cat test" (even if they were useful). The dealer won't be going and performing other services to test for stuff that they would have to bill you for that you didn't order
It's my single biggest complaint with people that service their cars at dealerships and assume the dealer covers literally everything. There is a lot that dealers are completely ignorant about, and owners need to be very aware of what is going on with their car.
So, now you know that you need to replace the coils regularly, and to be aware of any changes in power, mileage, or rev stability to get that first hint that the coils, wires, and/or plugs are starting to fail.
Don't forget about the other critical areas of maintenance either, cooling system and oil system.
10-11-2013, 12:16 PM
#158
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Many of the assumptions you have are incorrect.
1) A clogging cat will typically never throw a CEL until it is bad enough to start causing misfires. The reason for this is that even though it is clogged, the exhaust getting through IS still being cleaned, so the ECU sees everything as fine.
2) There is really no test the dealers are aware of at all to detect or recognize a clogging cat. None. I suspect that a clogging cat could be detected through monitoring of the OBD2 reported cat temp, but you have to specifically look at that while driving, and compare the current value with the known healthy value of the cat from weeks/months/years before. The dealership doesn't keep that kind of information. Most dealers don't even acknowledge that a clogged cat IS a failure.
3) Ignition coils are NOT part of the officially recognized maintenance items, and dealers have NO official information that coils can fail easily. As far as dealers are concerned, coils are supposed to be lifetime. It's only dealers with smart techs that pay attention to things that realize that coils fail easily and should be replaced regularly.
4) The official Mazda ignition coil test is complete garbage. A coil can be barely firing and causing misfires all over the place and it can still pass the official test.
5) Even if the dealer services the car regularly, you still bring it there for specific services, like an oil change. Even if the dealer actually does do the regular inspection, you will notice that no where on the inspection is "perform coil test" or "perform cat test" (even if they were useful). The dealer won't be going and performing other services to test for stuff that they would have to bill you for that you didn't order
It's my single biggest complaint with people that service their cars at dealerships and assume the dealer covers literally everything. There is a lot that dealers are completely ignorant about, and owners need to be very aware of what is going on with their car.
So, now you know that you need to replace the coils regularly, and to be aware of any changes in power, mileage, or rev stability to get that first hint that the coils, wires, and/or plugs are starting to fail.
Don't forget about the other critical areas of maintenance either, cooling system and oil system.
1) A clogging cat will typically never throw a CEL until it is bad enough to start causing misfires. The reason for this is that even though it is clogged, the exhaust getting through IS still being cleaned, so the ECU sees everything as fine.
2) There is really no test the dealers are aware of at all to detect or recognize a clogging cat. None. I suspect that a clogging cat could be detected through monitoring of the OBD2 reported cat temp, but you have to specifically look at that while driving, and compare the current value with the known healthy value of the cat from weeks/months/years before. The dealership doesn't keep that kind of information. Most dealers don't even acknowledge that a clogged cat IS a failure.
3) Ignition coils are NOT part of the officially recognized maintenance items, and dealers have NO official information that coils can fail easily. As far as dealers are concerned, coils are supposed to be lifetime. It's only dealers with smart techs that pay attention to things that realize that coils fail easily and should be replaced regularly.
4) The official Mazda ignition coil test is complete garbage. A coil can be barely firing and causing misfires all over the place and it can still pass the official test.
5) Even if the dealer services the car regularly, you still bring it there for specific services, like an oil change. Even if the dealer actually does do the regular inspection, you will notice that no where on the inspection is "perform coil test" or "perform cat test" (even if they were useful). The dealer won't be going and performing other services to test for stuff that they would have to bill you for that you didn't order
It's my single biggest complaint with people that service their cars at dealerships and assume the dealer covers literally everything. There is a lot that dealers are completely ignorant about, and owners need to be very aware of what is going on with their car.
So, now you know that you need to replace the coils regularly, and to be aware of any changes in power, mileage, or rev stability to get that first hint that the coils, wires, and/or plugs are starting to fail.
Don't forget about the other critical areas of maintenance either, cooling system and oil system.
Also on the above message you stated that the fist hint of fail is the change in power, mileage, or rev stability. Now lets talk about the rev stability.
But first lets go back a few months. My 2004 manual Rx8 with a new engine covered under warranty over a year and a half ago. Well about 4 months ago my baby was not starting it was just cranking and would not start. I had just bought a started like 10 months or so from Autozone and it was under warranty so I changed it and nothing happen. Then my friend was thinking it was my alternator since he passed me some current and the car started and I didn't get the battery light so i didn't think it was the battery but I still went ahead and changed it and it worked.... even though my battery was marking good when it was tested but maybe it didn't had enough power? who knows? Any way I just changed my plugs, wires, and coils like a little over a year ago when my engine was replaced and maybe 10,000 miles or less. Yeah I don't drive a lot my job is 3 1/2 miles away from my home
.So this leads us to today. Ever since i changed the battery my Rev needle isn't stable sometimes at stop lights it semi drops a bit and then goes back up to a little below the 1 mark. Is this normal? before the battery replacement it used to do it but as often, I just want to make sure this is normal which I thought it.
I apologies in advance for my long story
10-11-2013, 12:28 PM
#159
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Disconnecting the battery clears your fuel trims, and can mean idle instability as a result. It might be not really noticeable (I never noticed it on mine), it could be something like you have, or it could be severe, to the point of the engine stalling.
With that short of driving, it is possible that your fuel trims haven't yet stabilized from the battery replacement.
Also, the battery light isn't for the battery really. It's for the alternator. The battery light only really comes on if the alternator isn't providing enough voltage.
With that short of driving, it is possible that your fuel trims haven't yet stabilized from the battery replacement.
Also, the battery light isn't for the battery really. It's for the alternator. The battery light only really comes on if the alternator isn't providing enough voltage.
10-11-2013, 02:38 PM
#160
When the battery light turns on, ur alternator is already completely dead, it could be ur voltage regulator that failed and for rx8 it's NOT part of the alternator, but that's just rare.
For coils. I replaced a lot of them for different rx8, I have yet to see them fail. At least not within a year, but just like everything else in life, **** happens.
Also the stability thing, just like riwwp said, it's the ecu learning the correct volume of a/f for ur car. Cuz every car operates under different enviorment and there is no 1 size fits all. Normally it takes 2 -3 drive cycle, there is a way to get it learn within the first drive cycle, but I don't see much point cuz u will be driving it anyway, why waste gas on something that ur ecu will learn eventually?
(ps: I hate freaking igarbage auto correct, I know I can disable it and I know how iOS works inside out, it's just annoying at times , /endrant)
For coils. I replaced a lot of them for different rx8, I have yet to see them fail. At least not within a year, but just like everything else in life, **** happens.
Also the stability thing, just like riwwp said, it's the ecu learning the correct volume of a/f for ur car. Cuz every car operates under different enviorment and there is no 1 size fits all. Normally it takes 2 -3 drive cycle, there is a way to get it learn within the first drive cycle, but I don't see much point cuz u will be driving it anyway, why waste gas on something that ur ecu will learn eventually?
(ps: I hate freaking igarbage auto correct, I know I can disable it and I know how iOS works inside out, it's just annoying at times , /endrant)
Last edited by nycgps; 10-11-2013 at 02:43 PM.
10-12-2013, 10:02 AM
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Just to add a little more to the Conversation, it was the Coil on mine and now getting great gas milage in town for the RX. Just under 22 checking the last 4 fill ups.
10-12-2013, 10:06 AM
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Just to change the subject a little,
Mod Edit: Change of subject means change of thread. Keep threads on topic please. No need to go off on a tangent when you can switch to a thread in the interior electronics subforum.
Mod Edit: Change of subject means change of thread. Keep threads on topic please. No need to go off on a tangent when you can switch to a thread in the interior electronics subforum.
Last edited by RIWWP; 10-12-2013 at 10:39 AM.
10-14-2013, 10:59 AM
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Hmmm after driving it for 3 months I thought it could had gotten better. But I guess it's ok to say it's not my coils and it's more of my car not yet getting used to the new battery.
So is it safe to say it's nothing to worry about the stability? I mean it's not that bad it's really bad for 2 or 3 driving cycles when I re-connect the battery that the needle really goes low and feels like the engine will shut down but it doesn't and the needle goes back up.
Now it's just a little jerk drop and then it goes back up to 1 mark and then its ok it does that almost every time the engine is cold and I warm it up, take it for a drive and at the first light or stop it does it, then it's ok and doesn't do it again...
So is it safe to say it's nothing to worry about the stability? I mean it's not that bad it's really bad for 2 or 3 driving cycles when I re-connect the battery that the needle really goes low and feels like the engine will shut down but it doesn't and the needle goes back up.
Now it's just a little jerk drop and then it goes back up to 1 mark and then its ok it does that almost every time the engine is cold and I warm it up, take it for a drive and at the first light or stop it does it, then it's ok and doesn't do it again...
10-15-2013, 08:02 AM
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Did you try a better, or at least different Gas, or maybe a couple of tanks with a good injector cleaner gas treatment? I always hope for a cheap fix, and with Ethanol added to most gases, it's always a possibility, worth a try.
10-16-2013, 09:53 AM
#166
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I use supreme gas from Chevron and that's what I pumped all these years. Always wanted to do an injector cleaner gas treatment but since the RX8 is such a delicate car I haven't done it, just scared I guess. Which brand do you recommend or how often should I do the gas treatment injector cleaner?
10-17-2013, 07:59 AM
#167
I use supreme gas from Chevron and that's what I pumped all these years. Always wanted to do an injector cleaner gas treatment but since the RX8 is such a delicate car I haven't done it, just scared I guess. Which brand do you recommend or how often should I do the gas treatment injector cleaner?
I use Chevron or Texaco if possible for the Techron additive, and I've got bottles of Techron from the parts store that I would use if I thought I needed it.
10-17-2013, 09:39 AM
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I consider Chevron a much better gas then I use, I just go to Flying J Truck Stop near my house and I believe that's really Husky Gas. Also on the additive, I try different brands to see if I get any difference, normally never. It seems to improve the smoothness of the idle with very little other change. But then again, I only have 33,000 miles on my 07 and it normally a very smooth running engine. I just do it when it feels a little off, but never terrible. Sorry if I got you off on the wrong track.
10-18-2013, 04:09 AM
#169
I consider Chevron a much better gas then I use, I just go to Flying J Truck Stop near my house and I believe that's really Husky Gas. Also on the additive, I try different brands to see if I get any difference, normally never. It seems to improve the smoothness of the idle with very little other change. But then again, I only have 33,000 miles on my 07 and it normally a very smooth running engine. I just do it when it feels a little off, but never terrible. Sorry if I got you off on the wrong track.
Oh, and it's easy to get smited by the internet GODS; better read fast!
12-17-2013, 01:47 PM
#171
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RX8 Coils
I knew something was wrong becuase it wouldnt turn over right away, I noticed at about 30k but now I am at 44K and they have completely failed so my zoom zoom is in the hospital as I speak for replacement coils so it does seem every 20K is a good time to replace coils.
Last edited by RIWWP; 12-18-2013 at 10:01 AM. Reason: removed attachment
12-17-2013, 01:51 PM
#172
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Replacing them can be as cheap as $190-220 for all coils, plugs, and wires, and about an hour to replace everything, so I hope you aren't getting raped on the "hospital's" cost.
Letting them run down till they fail is also asking for huge problems, as it leads to cat failure, sensor failure, carbon buildup, engine failure, and eventually car fires are possible. It's not worth the risk at $200 every 20k to 30k.
And if you have a coil failing, remember that it will start fouling the plugs much faster, and fouled plugs will kill coils even faster in return. Failing wires will do both at the same time, even faster.
Letting them run down till they fail is also asking for huge problems, as it leads to cat failure, sensor failure, carbon buildup, engine failure, and eventually car fires are possible. It's not worth the risk at $200 every 20k to 30k.
And if you have a coil failing, remember that it will start fouling the plugs much faster, and fouled plugs will kill coils even faster in return. Failing wires will do both at the same time, even faster.
12-18-2013, 07:05 AM
#173
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What I noticed after changing the coils was torque. It didn't have it before new coils. In low gear, my car will now smoothly creep along with my foot off the gas, at 4 or 5 mph. It also starts with no hesitation, at reasonable temperatures. It used to take a few seconds to start. I also shift up at a lower RPM, because it now has some pep at 2500 RPM, rather than at 3000 RPM.
I installed coils at about 48,000, and bought the car with 38,000 on it, and think the coils had been changed, because the removed ones were the "A" version, which shouldn't have been in a 2008 model, and I installed "C's", which I bought for around $30 at Auto Zone.
Next time, I will notice a slower start, running at higher RPMs because of torque loss, and not being able to run move smoothly in low gear at idle.
John
I installed coils at about 48,000, and bought the car with 38,000 on it, and think the coils had been changed, because the removed ones were the "A" version, which shouldn't have been in a 2008 model, and I installed "C's", which I bought for around $30 at Auto Zone.
Next time, I will notice a slower start, running at higher RPMs because of torque loss, and not being able to run move smoothly in low gear at idle.
John
12-19-2013, 09:46 AM
#174
40th anniversary Edition
At 40,000 miles on my 2008 40th Anniversary Edition RX8 I installed BHR coils and wires with new Nippon Denso plugs (they have been shown to have a little better high-end performance and better resistance to fouling than the OEM NGKs). I also immediately got better torque, smoother firing throughout the rpm range. I never had any start up problems so no change there, it starts up immediately always, hot or cold. Never had even a single flooding problem, always turn it off warm. I probably should have changed coils, wires and plugs at 30,000. I didn't realize that the performance was slowly declining a bit since 30,000 miles. Now I will change it all out again by the next 30,000 miles. ( I am at 49,000 now and running great.)
