2tone

iTrader: (3)

Ok - so i already have a list of things i'll try tonight after work after researching, but i thought i'd make this post anyway in case (1) nothing works, and/or (2) it helps someone else with a similar problem.

Background Info:

Drove the car about 5 days ago; took a while to start (battery related, not the typical starter delay); the guages shot all the way up and back to 0 (do they normally do that?? i don't think so but can't remember); dcs light and traction control flashed...the car started, but it was clear the battery was actin' a fool.

(as i typed that, it makes me think this may just a connection issue...)

car drove fine; everything else works, lights, radio, etc.; drove to point b (about 10 minute drive), stopped, ate for about an hour, car acted the same way (barely started, etc.). once it started, we took it straight home.

two days later i got around to looking at it; it wouldn't start by itself, although it did have that slugging, trying-to-turn-over noise. so i jumped it with our other car and it started just fine. drove it around for 15 minutes or so and brought it back home, hopefully i was able to charge the battery somewhat. no dice.

two days later (today), i had a morning appt to take the car in for state inspection + checking battery, alternator, etc. the car wouldn't start this morning at all...not even the trying-to-turn-over noise. the gauges shot up like before as soon as i turned the key, the interior lights worked when i opened the doors. so i try to jump it. about 10 minutes go by and it still will not start. note: the starter clicks repeatedly, not just once, but repeatedly...i haven't quite been able to figure out if that's good or bad, but i think there is a definite difference btwn one click and repeated clicks...??

So, tonight my plan is to:

-check the main 120A fuse first, along with any other fuses, just in case
-clean the battery connections (i know there was some white stuff on there, so it may be corroded or a bad connection
-check the cables for any loose connections and/or corrosion

after those three things, if it still doesn't start, with a jump, what should my order be out of the main culprits?? battery, alternator, belts, starter, solenoid, etc. if it does start, i'll take it to autozone to have them voltmeter the battery to see, may just replace it no matter what. i really want to at least be able to start it so i don't have to tow it to the shop! thanks!!

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Battery, If it was the alternator, you would have issues with it wanting to die or running out of juice when you were driveing it. If the fuse was blown, you woudl loose all power not jsut power to start the car. I would definately have your battery tested or swap out the battery with yoru second car. see if that solves the problem.

2tone

iTrader: (3)

thanks. ok, i'm still a TAD hazy about what exactly each one does (alt and batt), but yeah. i wonder why the battery started to go in the first place, although it is hot as hell here, and it does happen! i think the loose/corroded connection may have started it, but at this point, with it being jumped 2 and 3 times, i may just opt for a new one. we shall see!

2tone

iTrader: (3)

any chance i'll find the 120a fuse in a store?? i checked one at lunch, and another online, no luck! i'd like to have this figured out by the weekend, so hopefully SOMEONE sells this thing and i don't have to order it online (actually, hopefully i don't even need it!! )

Dale8000

So if it clicks repeatedly, it means the battery is dead. BUT that doesn't necessarily mean that the battery is bad. Take a voltmeter and check the voltage of the battery WHILE THE CAR IS RUNNING. If the voltage drops, it means the alternator is not charging the battery. (or you can bring it to autozone and they'll do it for free). You can also check (or get autozone to check) the alternator voltage and the voltage across the fuse and if everything checks out, check the starter too. Typically if it's a starter, you won't hear the repeated clicking, though 2004s and early 2005s are known to have weak starters.

Basically, in terms of what the battery/alternator does:
Battery is only really used to start the car and power electronics while the engine is not running. Once it has started, the alternator basically takes over all of the electrical stuff (that's why Phish806 was saying your car will want to die if the alternator is busted). Think of the alternator as a small power generator that charges the battery using the energy produced by the engine.

Definitely don't bring it to a garage or, god forbid, a dealership unless its a mechanic you know and will not charge you. Parts stores do it for free.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

It is most likely the battery,,,a 10-15 minute drive doesn't give it time to recharge fully

If the battery is a few years old..you likely need a new one if it doesn't hold a charge properly

Charge it fully and have it checked

If it was the main 120 amp fuse..you would not have anything...no lights or power at all...

You might want to check the connections from the alt to the battery, and at the battery for corrosion...they could interfere with proper charging

2tone

iTrader: (3)

ok thanks guys, that's very helpful. i thought i read somewhere that repeated clicks might be sign of the starter not working (like it's trying to start, but never really does). so this is good. i'll check the connections and clean them up tonight, and hope that i can start the car with a longer jump...then head to the auto store for a reading.

@ dannobre...yes, i agree that i might need a new battery no matter what, simply because for some reason is crapped out on me (old age and texas heat, i think/hope). i'm pretty sure i didn't leave anything on, and i know my trunk was closed!!

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I would try and charge it...short trips and sitting around leads to a partially charged battery

If you leave it sitting around a lot and don't mind loosing your radio presets..get a disconnecting terminal for the negative battery cable end and disconnect it when you are leaving the car for more than a few days....they are about $10 at an autoparts store

2tone

iTrader: (3)

good idea!! i'll be driving it a lot more now (sold the mazda 3 that was the dd), but yeah it was sitting for days/weeks, then driven once or twice a week for not very long. that plus over 100 ambient temps, i guess it makes sense. oh, and corroded connections i think!

so how long SHOULD a jump from another car take? I mean, after 10 or 15 minutes...should i just give up and take the battery out and to the store for an overnight charge? or if it doesn't charge with 10-15 minutes, is it kaputski (sp?)?

FastFreddy61

If the cable to the starter was removed, like for a clutch replacement, maybe it wasn't tightened/torqued properly and is just making contact enough to give you limited power, not enough to start, this will give you the click click sound,and , I have seen inside starters that have enormous amounts of crap on the copper plate that transfers current from the solenoid to the starter's armature, not sure if this is applicable to our units, just a thought.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I would invest in a smallish (10 amp or so) battery charger to have at home.....you will get a lot of use out of it for the cost.

If you don't drive the car every day or so....an overnight charge once in a while will keep it up to snuff

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

A jump from another car uses that cars battery for power to run the starter ...so as soon as you hook up the cables you will have power.

You don't want to leave it too long, as the good battery will tend to try and bring up the current on the dead one..and you will have 2 poor batteries

Don't let the donor car run while you boost...it is hard on the alternator...

2tone

iTrader: (3)

ok thanks again, huge help!! i'll post up tonight if i have any luck!

wait, don't have the other car on? i thought it had to...

2tone

iTrader: (3)

thanks man. haven't had any work done recently, but the idea of a loose/corroded connection is probably part of the problem.

2tone

iTrader: (3)

so.............if it still doesn't start, it has to be connection related, right? i mean, corrosion or just a loose connection that's not allowing it to start up??

FastFreddy61

If it doesnt spin over ,( engine rotates with the starter ) a bad connection "may" be the cause, if it does spin over and doesnt start , I would be pulling the plugs and doing a de -flooding procedure, Im not sure what stage your at , at the moment.

2tone

iTrader: (3)

hasn't turned over...it just clicks with NOTHING else.

i am a bit worried though about flooding...makes me want to remove the battery and take it to the store for a charge instead of trying it myself...

2tone

iTrader: (3)

^ or i guess i could get a volt meter and a charger for home...then test it and let it charge that way for a couple hours. would that be smarter than just hooking it up to another car??

FastFreddy61

Charging the battery is easy, I would remove it from your vehicle first, just in case it boils the fluid in the battery and leaks onto your battery tray, depending whether its sealed or not. maybe pull the plugs and remove the "room" fuse in the fuse box by the kick panel in the left footwell ,until you have rectified the "click click clicking".And, when it does start, it will run roughly for a bit as disconnecting or replacing the battery will reset the ECU / NVRAM.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

You are making this way too complicated

Charge the battery in the car...(or boost it.....then charge it later)...it should start with the charged battery, or the other battery hooked up right away.....

Don't shut it off cold...drive it for 10-15 minutes......so it doesn't flood

Have the battery tested..if it fails buy a new one....if it doesn't charge it overnight and you should be good

2tone

iTrader: (3)

ha ha

sorry i was confusing 'jump' and 'boost'

i'll do that tonight...just that this morning it wouldn't start even WITH a jump. so if connection checking and terminal cleaning doesn't allow it to start with a jump, i'll have to go buy the charger or take the battery out and take it to the store in the other car. i'm anxious to get it fixed tonight!

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Jump and boost are the same thing

It's always better to not run the donor car....the high current draw is hard on the alternator...

2tone

iTrader: (3)

absolutely nothing

the connections on top of the battery seem fine. i rejumped it with the other car, and it just clicks, doesn't even TRY to turn-over. all the interior stuff works (headlights, interior lights, radio, power windows, power locks, etc.)

so that, to me, means it is something to do with the starter...?? i don't even know where that is and what to check...i'll start researching but anyone let me know what they think!!

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

If you don't have a good connection on the jumper cables it will do that too

Did you check the battery you are using to jump..is it good?

If all that is good..then you might have a starter problem I would check the connection at the starter and the grounds on the block next (Starter is on the drivers side bottom of the engine where it meets the tranny)

If you have a multimeter..what is your battery ( or Jump battery) voltage?

2tone

iTrader: (3)

i haven't checked the jump battery, but it's from an suv that we drive everyday and it seems fine. it jumped the 8 successfully early in the week, just not now. it REALLY seems like a connection issue...maybe i'll see when i look down there...i mean, enough battery to power the whole interior but it won't even attempt to turn over??? ha ha, it is flooded?? never had that happen so i don't know anything about it!

hey man, thanks for paying attn to this thread!! no, i do not have a multimeter...... i should probably go pick one up!!

ok...do i need to remove the driver's side tire or just jack it up? there will be a few connections, right? starter, solenoid...