Fuel pump or ignition problem possibly?
12-22-2011, 01:24 PM
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Fuel pump or ignition problem possibly?
Hi all,
I've got a problem with my car starting, and I was hoping someone with more experience with a rotary than I have could weigh in on it. It would be much appreciated.
I have a 2004 RX8 GT with a newer engine in it (replaced in 2009). I have recently had the ignition coil packs and spark plugs changed (oem). my compression is fine, was tested at the dealer, and the car runs great. no modifications to the car.
However when my car is warmed up, it is having trouble starting up right away. The motor doesn't spin freely, it chugs trying to start the same way it used to, but now I have to try to start it then turn it off completely and try to start it again up to 10 times just to get it to start. sometimes it starts on the second one, sometimes it takes forever. Just cranking the engine doesn't get it to start, it just ends up throwing a CEL. It throws the misfire CEL and turns on the traction control light. If i turn it off and try restarting it until it works, then it never throws the CEL.
when it does crank over, it starts up with no issue, so I was thinking maybe it's not getting fuel from the pump. either that or it is the starter itself.
I just want to get opinions from y'all. do you think it's the pump or the starter or maybe some other issue?
Thanks for your time
I've got a problem with my car starting, and I was hoping someone with more experience with a rotary than I have could weigh in on it. It would be much appreciated.
I have a 2004 RX8 GT with a newer engine in it (replaced in 2009). I have recently had the ignition coil packs and spark plugs changed (oem). my compression is fine, was tested at the dealer, and the car runs great. no modifications to the car.
However when my car is warmed up, it is having trouble starting up right away. The motor doesn't spin freely, it chugs trying to start the same way it used to, but now I have to try to start it then turn it off completely and try to start it again up to 10 times just to get it to start. sometimes it starts on the second one, sometimes it takes forever. Just cranking the engine doesn't get it to start, it just ends up throwing a CEL. It throws the misfire CEL and turns on the traction control light. If i turn it off and try restarting it until it works, then it never throws the CEL.
when it does crank over, it starts up with no issue, so I was thinking maybe it's not getting fuel from the pump. either that or it is the starter itself.
I just want to get opinions from y'all. do you think it's the pump or the starter or maybe some other issue?
Thanks for your time
12-26-2011, 06:01 PM
#4
Fraid we need more info....it could be all kinds of things...from poor fuel delivery to ignition....to a slow starter.....
Do you have any way to get us more data? Scan tool that could read any codes or freeze frame data would help
Otherwise you need to test your sparlk and fuel pressure at least.
Does the car run normally when you get it started?
Do you have any way to get us more data? Scan tool that could read any codes or freeze frame data would help
Otherwise you need to test your sparlk and fuel pressure at least.
Does the car run normally when you get it started?
12-26-2011, 06:59 PM
#5
Check your fuel pump and\or catalytic converter. If compression is fine and everything else is ok then it may easily be one of the above.
Please don't spread misinformation.
Please don't spread misinformation.
12-27-2011, 01:00 AM
#8
The symptoms of a fuel pump and starter are completely different. What you are describing by saying that the engine doesn't crank, seems to be more starter or battery related... But I'm leaning towards the starter, since it's affected more by heat than the battery. (Batteries usually have a more difficult time when they're cold.)
12-27-2011, 02:26 AM
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Sorry all. OK. The starter turns over fine, I'm just not getting ignition. I have a new cat in it (under 8k miles). The car has 110k miles. New coil packs and spark plugs. If I hold the starter on, it will chug then catch after about 30 seconds but then she will throw a CEL. It says misfire. If I turn her off then try to start again it takes between 2 and 12 attempts but I finally get ignition. This is only holding the key in the on position for a few seconds each try.
There are no other CEL codes. I will provide any other needed info if I can. My car is in the body shop, finally getting my new hood put on from hail damage in march. Go figure. Lol.
I read that the manual has some fuel pressure tests I can do. Is this correct? Are they pretty easy?
There are no other CEL codes. I will provide any other needed info if I can. My car is in the body shop, finally getting my new hood put on from hail damage in march. Go figure. Lol.
I read that the manual has some fuel pressure tests I can do. Is this correct? Are they pretty easy?
Te test itself is easy enough though
12-28-2011, 07:42 PM
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You may also want to check if the fuel pump is actually working/getting power. When you cycle your ignition from off to on listen closely as the fuel pump automatically primes for about 2 seconds. It is easier to hear if you take off the back seat its pretty easy. The sound is very subtle but you should be able to hear.
If you do not hear any sound then check the fuel fuse and the relay first. Test the relay if you can.
I had this issue just couple of days ago where I was getting no power to fuel pump. Sometime it started right up. Turn it off and would not start again.
Turned out to be a bad relay. The relay did click when power was provided and I assumed it was working. Turns out there was no continuity on the relay itself.
If you do not hear any sound then check the fuel fuse and the relay first. Test the relay if you can.
I had this issue just couple of days ago where I was getting no power to fuel pump. Sometime it started right up. Turn it off and would not start again.
Turned out to be a bad relay. The relay did click when power was provided and I assumed it was working. Turns out there was no continuity on the relay itself.
12-28-2011, 11:29 PM
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Mine sounds similar but more high pitched. It starts when I turn the key to the acc position. I won't have my car back until later next week, but I can try to record the sound then. It is a very faint sound though, and definitely more of a whirring. Could the pump be not drawing enough fuel for some reason? As an aside I try to only fill up with ethanol free premium.
01-23-2012, 04:55 PM
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Thanks everyone for your help and advice! I finally got her in to the dealership as the issue just kept getting worse. Turns out it is my starter. Apparently the crank shaft position was off? I'm probably remembering it wrong anyway, but bottom line, they're replacing my starter under my Mazda Extended Protection Plan. I'm glad i went in too because they found my motor mounts are cracking, so those are being replaced under warranty, and my transmission pan has a crack/leak in it, also being replaced under warranty. I'm going to have them do my rear differential service and oil change while it is in, and they are replacing my "transmission hose" as well. I'm not a gear-head at all, what is the "transmission hose" for?
Again, thank you all for your help. Hopefully in a week my 8 will start with no issues at all! I'm getting the upgraded starter too. it was still the original from factory ('04).
Mazda is also footing the bill for a rental. woot.
Again, thank you all for your help. Hopefully in a week my 8 will start with no issues at all! I'm getting the upgraded starter too. it was still the original from factory ('04).
Mazda is also footing the bill for a rental. woot.
01-28-2012, 03:44 PM
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i have a 2004 122k new engine having problem with car shutting down when doin gstop and go driving ,also today i was exiting highway with less than 1/4 tank of fuel car stalled in turn
started up got to gas station stalled would not start.Waited 45 mins started up tried filing up ,only could put in 3 gallons pump indicated gas tank was full.started up drove anout 15mins went into store came out car would not start waited, waited 15 mins started and drove home. Last week i had a new purge solenoid valve installed ,dealer thinks might be throttle body,any ideas new help
started up got to gas station stalled would not start.Waited 45 mins started up tried filing up ,only could put in 3 gallons pump indicated gas tank was full.started up drove anout 15mins went into store came out car would not start waited, waited 15 mins started and drove home. Last week i had a new purge solenoid valve installed ,dealer thinks might be throttle body,any ideas new help
Last edited by tmags; 01-28-2012 at 03:46 PM.
02-12-2012, 06:41 PM
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Been Having this issue with my 04 but i have only 30k on engine, car will start good , once its up to temp it looses power gradually and dies, i'll have to wait about 10 to 20 minutes then im back up running, it will acure more radiply if i put the car under load (drive her like it was meant to be driven).
did a check for a CEL all came up was P2259 Code Circuit low i notice that some members got a Hi what is the diffrence ?
i pulled the solonoid off did a check as one of post sugested it works fine,
i installed a new Air pump and still CEL is there,
ugrades so far BHR coils, i'm lost here cant even get a good 30minute drive and the car dies, ( it will pull at all gears no issue what so ever im thinking woaw my zoomzoom is back then ... ) just seems to go lean at the end and stops.
any help please,
quote=tmags;4176186]i have a 2004 122k new engine having problem with car shutting down when doin gstop and go driving ,also today i was exiting highway with less than 1/4 tank of fuel car stalled in turn
started up got to gas station stalled would not start.Waited 45 mins started up tried filing up ,only could put in 3 gallons pump indicated gas tank was full.started up drove anout 15mins went into store came out car would not start waited, waited 15 mins started and drove home. Last week i had a new purge solenoid valve installed ,dealer thinks might be throttle body,any ideas new help[/quote]
did a check for a CEL all came up was P2259 Code Circuit low i notice that some members got a Hi what is the diffrence ?
i pulled the solonoid off did a check as one of post sugested it works fine,
i installed a new Air pump and still CEL is there,
ugrades so far BHR coils, i'm lost here cant even get a good 30minute drive and the car dies, ( it will pull at all gears no issue what so ever im thinking woaw my zoomzoom is back then ... ) just seems to go lean at the end and stops.
any help please,
quote=tmags;4176186]i have a 2004 122k new engine having problem with car shutting down when doin gstop and go driving ,also today i was exiting highway with less than 1/4 tank of fuel car stalled in turn
started up got to gas station stalled would not start.Waited 45 mins started up tried filing up ,only could put in 3 gallons pump indicated gas tank was full.started up drove anout 15mins went into store came out car would not start waited, waited 15 mins started and drove home. Last week i had a new purge solenoid valve installed ,dealer thinks might be throttle body,any ideas new help[/quote]
02-12-2012, 06:45 PM
#22
Metatron
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Clogged gas strainer in the tank.
Car runs great for about ten minutes, then loses oomph, then quits.
You got a batch of bad/rusty gas and the siphon system sucks it all up and puts it in the chamber the pump sucks from. All debris ends up in this sump, and eventually clogs the outside of the filter sock.
Search 'sock' for cleaning procedure.
Car runs great for about ten minutes, then loses oomph, then quits.
You got a batch of bad/rusty gas and the siphon system sucks it all up and puts it in the chamber the pump sucks from. All debris ends up in this sump, and eventually clogs the outside of the filter sock.
Search 'sock' for cleaning procedure.
02-12-2012, 08:16 PM
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StealtTL, i did the search believe me i did remove the pump and followed the cleaning procedure, i actually tried every tip that i found on this forum that talks about this issue, but again tonight on my way from work same happen the good thing is that it stopped in my drive-way, lol im considering a new unit or just the welbro i was reading a thread from mmaniac about the 09 upgrade,
Clogged gas strainer in the tank.
Car runs great for about ten minutes, then loses oomph, then quits.
You got a batch of bad/rusty gas and the siphon system sucks it all up and puts it in the chamber the pump sucks from. All debris ends up in this sump, and eventually clogs the outside of the filter sock.
Search 'sock' for cleaning procedure.
Car runs great for about ten minutes, then loses oomph, then quits.
You got a batch of bad/rusty gas and the siphon system sucks it all up and puts it in the chamber the pump sucks from. All debris ends up in this sump, and eventually clogs the outside of the filter sock.
Search 'sock' for cleaning procedure.
02-13-2012, 01:02 AM
#24
Metatron
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Walbro is overrated, and typically short-lived.
Instead of a Walbro, get an Aeromotive or AutoTek for about the same price.
The Aeromotive 11142 will outperform and outlast the Walbro 342 in every way.
Instead of a Walbro, get an Aeromotive or AutoTek for about the same price.
The Aeromotive 11142 will outperform and outlast the Walbro 342 in every way.
02-13-2012, 09:10 AM
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Thanks, StealthTL, will look in to it , lets hope that it is the pump.