crazy naked man

YES

I have cut/pasted a post that I made on another related thread here:

"I have had my '04 8 for about 18 months now, with 38k miles on it. In the last 3 or 4 months, it has flooded on me 3 times and I have been unable to get it started any of the times following the proscribed procedure. I have had to have it towed to the dealership all 3 times, and I am about to give up on it.

Does anybody else find this to be a completely unacceptable design flaw? My dealer told me that it usually happens when the car is started for only a short time and not allowed to reach operating temps. This was only the case in one of my three floods, but in all cases the car sat for at least a day or more before the failed starts. Even if that were the case though, I find it unacceptable that the manufacturer is telling me that any time I start my care I have to run it for 5 or 10 minutes or I can expect this.

Furthermore, I find it totally unacceptable that Mazda knows of this problem and does not have a fix for it and is basically telling me that I can expect to have to deal with this from time to time.

I think more people will start having this problem as they get more miles on the cars, because I didn't experience it until about 32k.

I am within days of pursuing "lemon law" type legal action to try to force Mazda to buy my car back. I will not tolerate an 18 month old $30,000 car that I cannot rely on to start. Anybody have any input on this?

P.S. otherwise, I have loved this car and will be loathe to part with it, but I might have to start looking into a 350Z Track."

wankelmaniac

Owned sinc August of '03 with no problems of flooding. Until...my car had been sitting in the garage all winter connected to a battery tender. Drove it one nice weekend, forgot to re-connect the battery tender. About 3 weeks later, another nice weekend came around and tried to start the car. Battery was BARELY low on charge and didn't start. Kept trying...flooded the engine. Used Mazda's technique to de-flood the engine - Crank for at least 7 seconds with gas pedal depressed - it didn't work. After some playing with tiechnique and a couple of battery charges it finally started!! I just cranked it for a longer period of time...about 20 seconds. Did this about 5 or 6 times, then tried to start it. It worked. I think my mistakes were; 1. didn't crank it long enough, 2. tried to start it too soon, should've cranked it 5 or 6 times, 3. battery must be absolutely fully charged. Had oil changed, seemed to have some fuel in the oil. Dealership informed me of the "MPS04 lack of power" ECU re-flash. I had this done and WOW!!! - what an improvement of power! I can feel the scondary and tertiary ports open! Yeehaaa!!! My mileage has been about 19 mpg, we'll see if it goes up or down.

PS - make sure your battery has a FULL charge, it seems to lose charge easily. It doesn't take much loss of charge to affect starting.

Go48

Ain't that the truth!? The OEM battery in the US cars is pretty weak. The replacement battery (Interstate MTP-35) that Mazda recommends is significantly better in the CCA department. CCA for the OEM battery is about 300, for the MTP-35 it's 640.

CERAMICSEAL

And as I've said many times here before: "Therein lies a strong part of the problem and the solution". THE CHEESY BATTERY!

crazy naked man

What is your reference for this reccommendation? I need the source, because I have had to have my 8 flat-bedded to the dealer 3 times for flooding, and if Mazda actually reccomends this replacement, I am going to get them to pay for it.

Go48

Check out the TSB at the link below. Note that the part number includes "MT35", but the Interstate battery with 640CCA is actually the MTP-35, which is the model they are recommending.

For clarification, it's not that Mazda recommends replacing the OEM battery. Rather, they recommend that the Interstate battery be used as the replacement battery when an OEM battery needs replacing. In other words, this is not a recall per se, nor is the TSB instructing dealers to replace all the RX-8 OEM batteries. Some owners have been successful in getting Mazda to replace the OEM with the Interstate battery and in your case, I would think that would be easily justified. Go for it!

Otherwise, the battery can be had for about $75-$80USD.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com.../01-042-04.htm

Saxman

I'm sure you could make the case for having them replace it for you, w/ the problems you've been having. Ultimately, whether they will or not will probably just depend on the dealership. Some might, some might not. I'd give it a shot though! Good luck...

crazy naked man

Thanks- its not the money but the principle, and if the battery really is a potential contributor to the problem then I feel justified, and I never had a flood until about 32k miles, about tthe time the battery might be weakening. I'll let you know what result I get.

MEGAREDS

When my car flooded, the battery died very quickly as I ran through the cranks-no start procedure. It came close a few times to turning over, but there just wasn't much of a chance before there was nothing. I'd replace my battery in a heartbeat if a TSB came out recommending it, whether it was on Mazda's dime or not, but it's hard to justify otherwise.

Here's a nice battery thread, for those interested. Go48 knows it well...

crazy naked man

Does anyone think that an ECU piggyback (ala CZ) would help the flooding problem by leaning out the mix?

tasteslikechicken

Hi, I'm in the market for an RX-8 and are trying to get my arms around the flooding issue. Is there a synopsis of the latest info somewhere? I've tried searching but there are a gazillion threads about it.

TIA,
Mike

Go48

This is probably as close as you'll get:

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17498

IMO, flooding is blown all out of proportion to reality. It can be a problem if you don't follow the basic recommended procedures for starting and warming up the car. And if you let the OEM battery get too low for doing the no-start, starting procedure.

JM1FE

Here is the definitive "synopsis of the latest info" from Mazda (PDF file): http://www.finishlineperformance.com.../01-008-05.pdf

Overport

although my car has flooded once since i bought it, it was pilot error, not mechanical error.

if you follow the basic, very simple procedures for starting and warming up the car you will not have any problems. rotary's dont flood just because, its always your fault. and its not hard to prevent.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17498

BillK

Of course as has been mentioned previously as well, there are two situations that may cause flooding which you may not be able to control:

1) Valet parking or parking lots with an attendant
2) An accidental stall soon after starting the car

Though (2) has not been confirmed, it's not like your friendly parking attendant will follow the short trip procedure in the "Quick Tips" brochure... :D

GRT8

There should be a flooding pamphlet in your glove box.

freewebster

the search function is pretty definitive i think!

Blah

Well I need say nothing because these guys pretty much answered your question...just remember flooding is your fault, X's don't flood by themselves. Just pay attention and you'll be straight. I haven't flooded my baby yet and don't plan on doing it either

StewC625

Never flooded desipte:

1) Frequent valet parking of it
2) Wanton disregard for the "don't start it unless you plan to drive it" rule

Have "M Flash".

bowlhead

I can confirm #2, for no reason it stalled after startup, then towed to the shop.
I requested Mazda to take the car back under the Lemon Law and they are scheduling the car to have new alterations, I'll keep all informed of what the upgrades will be. Supposedly latest version of plugs, N flash, more robust battery, and possibly heavier starter.

RotaryGoober

Is there any update on folks that have the latest flash and flooding? Since you can only vote once in a poll and most voted when they didn't flood is this pool current and accurate? I'm just wondering if there should be a current poll with folks that have had the latest flashes and battery upgrades and if that would be a more accurate, either way, number. Also, it would take into account that more mileage is on the cars and relationship with battery condition for those with original units.

allmotorRX8

get a timer for the car, so u can leave the car and have the car idle until its warm, so u dont have to worry bout flooding

markd

Tasteslikechicken, you may want to check out the Issues & Problems section of the Tech Garage here. The mods did a good job of sorting a lot of these threads into one list so you can sift through the info and find what you're looking for.

Personally, I've never had a flooding issue (08/04 purchase), but I always gun my engine to 3-4000rpms before shutting off. That seems to keep me out of trouble.

Davisovich

My engine flooded Tuesday morning. Only warmed it up for about 15 seconds, I usually wait a minute at least, went to back out, went 2 feet
and kah-lunk. Nothing. Engine died. Still had plenty of battery power
but the car would not restart. I tried twice more after waiting about 15
minutes. The starter couldn't get the engine to turnover (or spin around!).
I had it towed to the dealer via Mazda Roadside assistance. Note: when I called they said it would be less than an hour to get a tow truck. Nearly 3 hours later, the tow truck arrived. In total, it took 4 hours from the call to
getting it to the dealer. The dealer was very friendly (UMAZDA.COM) and
fixed it promptly. They tried to start it to no avail. Then did some diagnostic
work which I can't remember (it was written on the work-order sheet that
they let me see). They replaced the battery, all 4 plugs and re-flashed the
chip. I estimate (from the work sheet) that it took them about 2 hours to
do this work. Got the car back that afternoon, washed and vacuumed.
Promptly took off and drove it like a madman to test the new flash. Seems
to work even better than the M. Did notice that the rotors seem to have
less resistance spinning, that is, when riding in a low gear at high RPM, there
is less down compression, if that makes any sense. I wasn't too satisfied that my 04 died. But once I had my car back, I felt much, much better!
Chris

MidLife8

I just got a mailing from Mazda to RX-8 owners yesterday. It has a DVD with a number of updates on it. It talks about oil consumption, flooding, fuel quality, synthetic oil (no) and a couple of other minor items. It looks like they are trying to put a happy face on despite our increasing concerns about reliability - the flooding issue. When the warranty is over and we start having to pay to flatbed the car to the dealer to have it deflooded, we will be one very pissed group. They offer the plattitude of just let it warm up to the middle of warm on the temperature gage every time. They talk about the foot to the floor deflooding process but only one attempt and then call the Mazda Roadside Service number. They say if a short run is unavoidable, rev to 3000 for xx seconds, allow to return to idle and then shut down.
Personally, this is a serious driveability issue. Any expensive vehicle should be able to be started and stopped repeatedly and for short hops without any concern for needing a tow truck! I think a recall for replacement of the battery with a 600+CCA rating and a faster turning starter, and the latest ECU flash is in order BEFORE the car becomes a lemon in the press and becomes unsellable. Mine was towed last Thursday and fixed Saturday. No paperwork was provided. I was told there was gas in the oil so it was replaced. The battery stayed the same. The plugs were replaced (17,237 miles) and I don' t know if they changed to the hotter plugs or not.