RoninJai

My cel was on almost right from leaving the dealership. Brought it back in and they reflashed it. I've had it for a month now, with 2800 miles, and my cel just came on again. Just my 2 cents. (If this keeps happening...I wonder if that falls under lemon law? Isn't it 3 times for the same problem?)

zoom44

to save me typing here is a response i gave in another thread about that tsb-

but that was all cancelled due to programming concerns.

zoom44

a cel is not a problem. it is an idication of a problem. you need the same problem. without knowing the codes that caused the cel you dont know if it is the same or a diferent problem. even then i doubt you could get lemoned for a false code caused by a software glitch. or the cel could be because of a sensor failure. i dont think a sensor failing 3 times would be cause for lemonade.

jsh1120

If an occasional cel were grounds for declaring a "lemon law" applicable, virtually every Volvo and BMW would have been returned. In my 97 Volvo the cel went on for vitually no reason problably 20 times in the seven years I owned it. Unfortunately, cel's alert the driver that something MAY be wrong, not that a specific problem has been detected and diagnosed. Perhaps Mazda is less prone to this sort of behavior than various European brands with which I'm familiar, but I'm skeptical.

8inVegas

i'm gonna go to the one in henderson. i went there today but the GM wasn't there, and they told me that he will be in there tomorrow. and i spoke with one of the women that works there, i think she is one of the sales managers, and she asked me if there was anything wrong with my car. and i told her all the problems, the engine flooded twice, third time this morning, my friend and i varely got the engine to start after ten minutes of jumping it, then the oil gauge doesn't work at all, the car shakes, check oil and coolant light goes on and off and i check both(sometime ok, sometime not), the ac doesn't work for ****, gas mileage is worse than claimed, and horsepower is less than what they claim plus when i bought the car back in june, they didn't have me sign a disclosure for that (horsepower claim over actual), plus they were supposed to give me $500 gift card because of that. i think i have a very strong case. if they don't want to take it back, i will have to go to consumer affairs and report them and i already talked to my lawyer and he said that i have an excellent case. but after i told the lady at the dealership all that, she told me that the GM was pretty new, he just got on board with them from pontiac and he is supposed to be really nice and that mazda is sopposed to be really good with this. i don't want them to fix the car, because a lot of people in the forum who had it fixed, had the problem reappear. this **** shouldn't be happening to a brand new car. it's been very inconvenient. don't get me wrong, i lvoe the rx-8, and there is nothing like a rotary, but they need to take it back. what do you guys think? anybody ever take a car back? any tips, advice?

zoom44

what about the "oil guage" doesnt work? there is a fix for the AC, have they done that? how bad has you gas mileage been and what have they done to check it?

did you buy your car June 2004?

jsh1120

You really, really need to educate yourself about the process of buying a car. From your posts it appears that you are a dream come true for a sharp (or even a dull) salesperson.

First, no dealer would ever solve your problem of being "upside down" (i.e. owing more than the car is worth) on your current car. That's your problem, not theirs. Of course, they'll "pay off the entire (current) car" as part of your deal. You will notice, however, if you look closely at the deal that you will have financed the difference as part of the new car purchase.

Second, never, ever begin a discussion of a new car purchase with a discussion of your trade-in. Negotiate the price of the car first. Then discuss a trade-in if you have one. You'll quickly find that you're better off selling the car yourself than trading it. (This rule doesn't always hold; only about 99.99% of the time.)

Third, never, ever buy a car in the context of a discussion of what you can afford for a monthly payment. If you're looking at an auto purchase in terms of what you can afford from month to month, you're exactly the pigeon that an auto salesperson longs to see come through the door. This enables the salesperson to adjust the length and interest rate of a loan to maximize his/her profit and place you in the position of being "upside down" in the car you're buying so that next time you'll face exactly the same problem you're currently facing.

From your posts it appears you've been down this road before. That is what has put you in your current situation. If (a) you plan to change cars every few years, (b) are willing to pay for the privilege, and (c) your credit rating will support it, consider leasing instead of buying a car. At your current rate, you'll find yourself continuously digging a deeper debt hole for yourself.

And the first rule of holes is....stop digging.

8inVegas

i got the car in june of this year. i know some of these tips that you mentioned jsh, like never discuss a downpayment until you agree on the price, or never discuss how much you wanna pay monthly, etc. what i am concerned about mostly is returning the car.

8inVegas

and stop diggin

ScottishRX

What really amazes me is that at your young tender age you have the financial resources to buy an 8 in the first place. OK, let's put that aside for a moment. Assuming you had someone assist you with the financial aspect of the aquisition of the car, where the hell are they in helping you out with resolving your current problems?

Believe me I truly understand your problems in dealing with car salesmen here. I've only been in the states for 2 years but have had the unfortunate experience of buying 5 cars so far. (one of them being an eight). Car salesmen and dealerships in general are a pain in the ****, mostly here, but worldwide in general!! If you find a good one then you are lucky. If the dealer you bought the car from is reputable then they should be bending backwards to sort out your problems.

I truly hope you get it all resolved. I've owned rotary engined cars for over two decades and can honestly say that there is no better driving experience.

Rotarian_SC

I mean to say too if you really can't afford to drive the 8 because of gas costs maybe you should have bought something much cheaper in the first place?

rotten42

I agree for the most part but there are some people that are getting crazy bad MPG......at a level that isn't normal 10-12 mpg. They have a gripe....the others are just people that either didn't do their homework or just like to bitch.

8inVegas

one thing is what somebody claimes(19mpg) and another is what you actually have (10-12)

RX4+30Years=RX8

Thank you and that is 9-10 not 10-12. Actually it rarely gets to 10.0. Most of the time when I check, it is around 9.4-9.7.

I will note that on the current tank since they replaced the gas cap to fix the CEL that just a bit more noise is coming from the air intake and the rear wheels seem to want to break free a little easier. I know that they disconnected the battery at some point, because the clock was way off and I had to set it when I got the car back. Does any of this make seense?

zoom44

so then you dont have a missing HP issue. so you dont get a gift card or free maintenance. only those who purchased their car when teh published HP was 247 for the 6mt get those. you bought your car with a window sticker saying 238hp. Mazda has proven that's what it has within the legal 5% window that it has. there was no disclosure paper to sign when you bought your car. there wasnt any when they made the change a year before you bought your car. they just relabeled the cars.

now your ac- did you get the amplifier? mpg- have you given the car to them so they can verify the mpg? and oil guage- you didnt answer but the oil pressure gauge is an idiot light with a needle. it will only show 2 things- yo have presure or you dont. are you saying yours never shows any pressure? and the dealer can see this but doesnt fix it?

snap-on

What makes you think the GM is where you start this process. All he does is run the dealership.

Does NV. have an arbitration process?

jgv999

So, I got a letter in the mail a month ago to come in for the latest flash (M?) to prevent hard starts in the winter. Not having hard starts I put it off. Last couple weeks, started having some hard starts, and brought it in last Friday.

No problems over the weekend. Then it got cold again...

Car started fine, but unless I let it warm up for ~5 minutes before driving it in the morning, I would get hesitation. I bring it in on Tuesday, they tell me, "Must be bad gas" and they check the OBC for error codes and I go on my way.

Next day, no hesitation, then on Thursday, get the hesitation back. Wednesday night, CE light goes on with no perceived problems while driving, and I bring it in this morning.

They call me up this afternoon, and tell me that the flash (when they did it) said it worked, but the error code being reported does not exist. They say they have called corporate, the engineers are off until the new year, and they assure me that the car is still perfectly drivable, and this isn't a big deal*. They also tell me corporate has halted flashes until they investigate this.

I call BS on the drivable thing, so I have a rental until the new year.

Since the computer seems like it controls an awful lot of important stuff (timing, richness, etc) I think it is probably a bad idea to assume the program is good. Given the info that they gave me.

Besides, lets say the program is good and only one bit was off. That means that either the computer would be reporting an engine problem that does not exist, with an error code that does. Or there would be a bad error code that would not be reported because it would have to be triggered by a problem with the vehicle.

Moreover, I would be real suppressed to learn that the flash does not have a checksum at a minimum. If the checksum matched and the flash was bad. That would mean at a minimum there are 2 issues with the flash (if it uses a check bit). I am going to assume it can detect more than two errors

Just an FYI

jgv999
- An occasional board lurker
- Winning Blue 2004 RX-8

* I suspect they know the error code, and it is a sanity check error. Hence their assurance that it is drivable.

zoom44

Mazda halted the use of one flash a month or so ago. within 2 weeks of that they released an updated file that had been de-bugged. so what they told you was a half-truth. if they gave you the buggy file then they are incompetent as they should have down loaded the corrected file by now. did they tell you the "false code" it was showing?

snap-on

I'd sure like to have that error code..along with the FFD.

jgv999

I will call and see if I can get the code. What is the FFD?

snap-on

The "picture" the PCM takes at the time it see's a problem..

It is called "freeze frame data"

jgv999

Thanks for the explanation.

I am guessing getting the FFD from them over the phone is going to be impractical then. When I am out there next, I will see if I can get a copy.

I am calling on the error code now.

jgv999

BTW the Error code is P0126

jgv999

P0126 Insufficient coolant temperature for stable operation ON 2
Thermostat ´ (See DTC P0126, P0128 )

Interesting, that does not seem to be an invalid code. I purposely did not talk to the service rep this time, and got the first guy I talked to in the service dept to pull up the codes it is reporting.

It sounds like they are full of $#@%. Great. Why would they be lying about something like that?

rx8cited

Check this out : https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/engine-light-my-way-back-lunch-fixed-dealership-same-day-48284/

Same issue as you're describing.