Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

No problem.
I try to encourage people to try stuff like this for themselves; not only to better their knowledge on how the car operates, but so you don't get ***-raped with a sandpaper condom by the local shop.
OK.. maybe that was a little too graphic, but it describes how I feel towards them.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Ya know, I am having difficulties accepting the idea that RG is being asked to pay additional labor fees to a shop if RG had instructed said shop to further adjust the clutch pedal and they resisted his request. Especially given the fact that the adjustments were already deemed to WORK by somebody who actually installed the exact same clutch.

My general rule (and maybe THIS is one of the reasons I am still pretty much broke) is that if I am confronted with an installation issue wherein I learn something I can carry with me for future use, I don't charge my customer the additional labor fees because I feel (as an alleged "professional") that I am supposed to know this stuff in the first place. Why should I charge my customers for my own OJT?

Take it as you wish but that is how I feel about it.

teknics

Maybe i didnt get my idea across properly. Basically the rod being in contact earlier with the master cylinder allows earlier and more complete use of the hydraulic fluid within the system which will allow the added work to be achieved by the clutch hydraulics within the proper amount of time, aka from free to floored clutch pedal.

im guessing misinterpretation, as thats the knowledge ive always used, i could be wrong and would prefer an enlightment rather than a rhetorical questioning. We are *all* here to learn afterall. I believed that earlier and thus more complete compression of the master cylinder would result in a higher pressure (compression being now longer and involving more volume being moved which i assumed to be uprated pressure)

i did call your customer service great, wasnt questioning you or him in any way in case thats your feeling. perhaps i came across negatively, apologies.

kevin.

teknics

until one time you get a weak thread on the e-shaft or nut (luckily nut should be weaker every time tho) which collapses upon trying to survive most likely several hundred pounds of force above it's rated 250 or so ft-lb. That makes the job a tad more tedious at that point, and before you ask i've seen an eshaft nut flatten either 4 or 5 threads completely due to the force. the longer its on there the stronger they seem to be. Never mind that you're now transferring all the force to the e-shaft, and why dont we hit the flywheel with a hammer to remove? transference of shock to the front bearings, natch.

so i prefer to simply push forward with my arms while popping, secures it back to the taper but loose enough to be removed. but im lazy, hell i dont even have a metric socket for the eshaft.

kevin.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Interesting point Kevin.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Apparently, we each have our preferred lexicons and our preferred methodologies.

rapidfire

Ray, are you saying that Mazdaspeed clutch is slightly better than Exedy stage 1 clutch?

I'm planning of getting Exedy stage 1 clutch, Finandaz flywheel & Mazda counterweight (N3Z2-11-52X), are there any difference between (10803AHD, 10803A & Mazdaspeed clutch), as well as Finandaz, Exedy & Mazdaspeed flywheel? Also, what's the Mazda part number for the 6x bolts that needed to mount the counterweight, or I can just re-use those bolts that's on there?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

How have you decided on those particular parts for your swap?

teknics

based on our own personal experiences.

The accumulation of these experiences is how the "best methods" will one day be deciphered. Of course generally the best method eliminates any possibility of damaging the core of the car

(just having a fun jab, you obviously have your knowledge, fun to run into knowledgeable rotary fans/enthusiasts/etc..)

kevin.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Couldn't help yourself, eh Kev.

I have never screwed up a thrust bearing. I have never stripped threads on an e-shaft. I have never been stumped by a clutch/flywheel swap while doing so with my hand tools, on my back, 1K-2K miles from home. I have always gotten the clutch pedal adjusted for proper friction zone placement. I would say that either of us would be good choices to have do the labor for anybody looking to hire somebody to do it.

I also learned a LOOOONG time ago that our creator played a joke on humanity, one of several actually, by instilling the idea that there are several ways to properly achieve any stated objective and I am no longer seeking the Holy Grail of the "perfect solution". As long as I get the job done without making matters worse, I consider my work to have been done properly.

teknics

LMAO, come on it was left wide open?

I agree on principal that my experiences are "rare" but i also have a greater sampling pool then the majority of people. I see more cars treated in completely different ways then most "aftermarket" places. I just like to expose all possibilities, since something i saw yesterday someone else might not see for a few years based on simple numbers .

As for thrust bearings being damaged by shaft impact, ive seen that more on older 13b's (and generally from a hammer then from flywheel popping), i just prefer to not chance bearing damage like that, makes my job harder and im lazy. Afterall, having it happen one time would be enough to set me off lol, imagine if its not caught right away and the customer drives it home, even worse. I'll admit to using the nut as a stopper at times, but i always wind up with those thoughts in the back of my mind "what if..."

but i do agree we both can probably achieve the same results, and would both do the job equally. I'm not questioning your abilities, and i feel you understand that. I simply like to "get knowledge out there" so when questions or problems arise people have a reference ya know? Afterall, a knowledge base is all that seperates a dealer from an independent.

hopefully none of this comes across the internet the wrong way, not challenging or trying to be rude/aggressive, just good clean shop talk. Which i appreciate being able to have with someone.

Exactly, but in consideration, isn't eliminating all possible "problem situations" the way to not make matters worse in the long run? (come on lmao still in fun my friend, still in fun, i see nothing wrong with using the nut as a stopper for 99 out of 100 repairs, but that 1 repair that *may* go bad would be enough to change my mind in the end :P )


kevin.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

No pissing match here, and I equally appreciate the trade/shop-talk and sharing of experiences. My guess is many of that those who wield hammers to pop off the flywheels (with not much experience with engines) may also fail to realize that a bigger hammer is not better and real damage may result.

There is a well-respected vendor with whom I speak from time to time who reminds me every now and then that we who know what we are doing (if I may be so bold as to include myself in that definition) make it look easy and will rarely impart the important details to others because we learned how to do this stuff and our experience makes it all look much easier and simpler than it may really be. As such, we overlook details because we have already come to understand their nature. I know when it came to discussing rotary rebuilds I was probably guilty of understating the importance of the details and I may have led several to believe they could do it themselves. I have since come to learn the true value of the education I received and that not everyone was as fortunate as I was to have a Voc. Auto. program in high school 25 years ago that served as the model for the modern day trade schools such as WyoTech, UTI, and others.

You and Jon316G have reminded me, and others, of several details on clutch swaps in much this same manner. Thx.

teknics

WOW. just WOW. you took what i had in my head in unformed sentence fragments and perfectly wrote it down. You sir are on my list of favorites LMAO.

This is exactly what I attempt to accomplish by visiting here. Imparting those little "helpers" and "pointers" that not only make a job easier but change it from being a repetitive task to being something you can look at, determine the problem, and determine the appropriate "fix" or modification.

I feel it's these small things we as "techs" have as an advantage over backyarders, we have minor details stitched into our brains based on experiences, technical knowledge, and simple trial and error. It is these minor ideas/facts that make us do our job properly, quickly, knowledgeably, and have it actually repair the problem that is of concern.

You sir are my new buddy lol, sometimes i love this place.

kevin.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

felk420

the only thing missing here are some pics, but over all sweet thread, i might try to go into doin this summer 2. i alwasy though it would take much longer.

rapidfire

Mostly by reading users' review and experience and how easy it is to get those parts in Canada(preferable) and who will service them in the future. To be honest, I'm still at the learning stage to mod my car.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Well, then, let me expound a bit;

I don't automatically consider the "MazdaSpeed" clutch better than the Stage 1. It really is a matter of assessing what a given person's long-term plans are and making sure they do not end up with "too much clutch" (meaning a heavier pressure plate than what they need), especially given the weak clutch pedal brackets that come on the RX-8 from the factory. The factory clutch is actually pretty nice and mine has held up for 68,000, nitrous-abused, miles. Clutch selection can be a fairly personal matter, sometimes.

As to the flywheel; the BHR flywheel is a Fidanza/SPEC 'wheel (they are made by the same company) that I have SPEC turn down to 9 lbs. from 9.75 lbs. Same quality among the BHR, SPEC, and Fidanza flywheels.

The counterweight; most of us will specify the use of the ACT CW03 because the factory version, although it will work fine, is not as precisely balanced (allegedly) as the ACT version.

rapidfire

Will that setup work well for NA car or mostly for FI car?

I know that BHR flywheel is 2-piece design which make it easy to replace the friction plate, but I have read 2-piece design has the potential of coming loose. Don't take me wrong, I'm not questioning your product or anything, I have read lot's of good review of your products and the service that you have provided.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Either Stage 1 or "MazdaSpeed" clutches will functionally work on N/A or F/I apps.

You did read that the Fidanza and BHR flywheels are identical except I add a little more machining, right? Thus, the Fidanza and BHR flywheels (as is the case with ALL aluminum flywheels) both have replaceable friction faces.

EdwardLenczowski

How the hell did you guys get the lug nut off the flywheel?? I broke 2 socket wrenches on the pulley bolt

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Like I mentioned in the 1st post, I used a flywheel stopper to hold it.
You can also use an impact wrench on the flywheel nut, which then you won't need to use a flywheel stopper and you won't need to hold the eshaft pulley like you were trying to do.

fastuning

Could someone make a DIY with images of clutch pedal stroke adjustment when install new clutch and have the problem that the wheels move with clutch pedal pushed?

bse50

This should be explained in the workshop manual