Challenge! - Diagnose my 8... R U smarter than my service center?
05-18-2007, 08:13 PM
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Challenge! - Diagnose my 8... R U smarter than my service center?
My 1st post here, sorry for taking before giving. But I could really use the insight of the RX8 genius' on this forum.
I have had my 8 for 1 week, and its already back at the dealer because of CEL. There is a long and torrid history w/ this car. BTW, I have done nothing but search and research this forum for the last 3 weeks. I feel much more informed now...thanks to everyone.
So:
2004 RX-8 Grand Touring, MT... 24,600 miles
bought it from a dealer in Jersey for $16K. (Great deal huh? - well its a repurchased vehicle, meaning Mazda bought it back from the 1st owner because they couldn't fix the issue after a reasonable number of attempts) It was explained that the issues have been fixed and it runs good now, and I still have ~ 1yr left on warranty, so seemed like a good value, with acceptable risk.
The original issues were:
1. CEL
2. flooding
3. vibration in brakes (whatever that means?)
4. Power Loss.
I have attched the service history, I wish I had a way to decipher the PNMC codes. BTW, my background, I am Mechanical Engineer.
------------------------------------
OK, so here are my observations:
1. Day 1, in Philly Traffic, 85 F out, about 1 hr of driving...I experience loss of power in low RPM's, like NO power at all. Only when starting to move from a stop...I thought I had it in 3rd gear....I had to spool it up to get going, and I almost got rear ended a couple times. So this happened like 5-6 times the 1st day, and never again. However it DID concern me alot! But I thought maybe I was doing something wrong.
2. Day 1, I noticed ALOT of heat coming through the center console...I mean this thing was really cooking.
3. Day 1, there was just not alot of power after driving all day as compared to when I test drove it.
4. I was flying through my tank of gas...in fact this never changed the whole time I have had it. I would estimte that I get 150-200 miles b/w fill-ups (less than 1/8th tank left). I didnt have a chance to accurately measure mpg's, but common sense tells my I am WAY LOW.
5. Commuting and short trips, less than .5 hrs, the car runs pretty darn good. I have no basis for comparison, but it is fun to drive. Maybe a little under powered, and definitely gas-hungry (only using 93 octane), but no major complaints. Heat through console not really an issue, except for day 1.
6. Day 4, The CEL comes on, nothing wrong with car otherwise, as far as I can tell.
7. Make appt. at local Mazda Dealer (Flemington Mazda) and convince myself my CAT is clogged, and O2 sensor tripped. After a day of about 1 hr driving, I park it at night and check out the CAT, the O2 sensor bung is cherry red, but the CAT is not. Is this normal?
8. Day 6, I take it to Flem. Mazda, and they say they'll call me when they know whats up. Never dealt with repurchased car, and confused about Warranty rights.
9. Day 8, (today) I call them and they say they are waiting for the District Manager to approve the work. WTF?...its still under full factory waranty. They are 'quick' with me on the phone, but do tell me that they pulled the codes and one of the rotors is getting "No compression at all", and their tech thinks I may need a new engine. Dammit I wanted more details than that!
10. I call MNA and ask them to see whats taking the Dist.Mngr. so long, they tell me they'll make calls and get back to me....I get busy at work and dont hear anything further from anyone.
-------------------------------
So that brings you up to date. I have read lots of good stuff about why our engines go, and how low oil injection leads to bad seals leading to low compression leading to failed CAT's leading to failed coils, etc....its all a vicious cycle. I wonder if I am seeing all, some, or none of these problems?
I would really appreciate if someone could interpret my service codes. What doesn't make sense is, if 1 rotor is not making compression, how could I be thinking that the car is running pretty good, but for bad gas mileage?
What do you think its going to take to get me back up and running again?
Thanks in advance for your help, rx8club
I have had my 8 for 1 week, and its already back at the dealer because of CEL. There is a long and torrid history w/ this car. BTW, I have done nothing but search and research this forum for the last 3 weeks. I feel much more informed now...thanks to everyone.
So:
2004 RX-8 Grand Touring, MT... 24,600 miles
bought it from a dealer in Jersey for $16K. (Great deal huh? - well its a repurchased vehicle, meaning Mazda bought it back from the 1st owner because they couldn't fix the issue after a reasonable number of attempts) It was explained that the issues have been fixed and it runs good now, and I still have ~ 1yr left on warranty, so seemed like a good value, with acceptable risk.
The original issues were:
1. CEL
2. flooding
3. vibration in brakes (whatever that means?)
4. Power Loss.
I have attched the service history, I wish I had a way to decipher the PNMC codes. BTW, my background, I am Mechanical Engineer.
------------------------------------
OK, so here are my observations:
1. Day 1, in Philly Traffic, 85 F out, about 1 hr of driving...I experience loss of power in low RPM's, like NO power at all. Only when starting to move from a stop...I thought I had it in 3rd gear....I had to spool it up to get going, and I almost got rear ended a couple times. So this happened like 5-6 times the 1st day, and never again. However it DID concern me alot! But I thought maybe I was doing something wrong.
2. Day 1, I noticed ALOT of heat coming through the center console...I mean this thing was really cooking.
3. Day 1, there was just not alot of power after driving all day as compared to when I test drove it.
4. I was flying through my tank of gas...in fact this never changed the whole time I have had it. I would estimte that I get 150-200 miles b/w fill-ups (less than 1/8th tank left). I didnt have a chance to accurately measure mpg's, but common sense tells my I am WAY LOW.
5. Commuting and short trips, less than .5 hrs, the car runs pretty darn good. I have no basis for comparison, but it is fun to drive. Maybe a little under powered, and definitely gas-hungry (only using 93 octane), but no major complaints. Heat through console not really an issue, except for day 1.
6. Day 4, The CEL comes on, nothing wrong with car otherwise, as far as I can tell.
7. Make appt. at local Mazda Dealer (Flemington Mazda) and convince myself my CAT is clogged, and O2 sensor tripped. After a day of about 1 hr driving, I park it at night and check out the CAT, the O2 sensor bung is cherry red, but the CAT is not. Is this normal?
8. Day 6, I take it to Flem. Mazda, and they say they'll call me when they know whats up. Never dealt with repurchased car, and confused about Warranty rights.
9. Day 8, (today) I call them and they say they are waiting for the District Manager to approve the work. WTF?...its still under full factory waranty. They are 'quick' with me on the phone, but do tell me that they pulled the codes and one of the rotors is getting "No compression at all", and their tech thinks I may need a new engine. Dammit I wanted more details than that!
10. I call MNA and ask them to see whats taking the Dist.Mngr. so long, they tell me they'll make calls and get back to me....I get busy at work and dont hear anything further from anyone.
-------------------------------
So that brings you up to date. I have read lots of good stuff about why our engines go, and how low oil injection leads to bad seals leading to low compression leading to failed CAT's leading to failed coils, etc....its all a vicious cycle. I wonder if I am seeing all, some, or none of these problems?
I would really appreciate if someone could interpret my service codes. What doesn't make sense is, if 1 rotor is not making compression, how could I be thinking that the car is running pretty good, but for bad gas mileage?
What do you think its going to take to get me back up and running again?
Thanks in advance for your help, rx8club
05-18-2007, 09:00 PM
#2
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...ecall4206F.pdf
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...res_recall.pdf
new motor coming, and coils, and motor mounts..
beers
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...res_recall.pdf
new motor coming, and coils, and motor mounts..
beers
05-18-2007, 09:13 PM
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http://www.finishlineperformance.com...ecall4206F.pdf
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...res_recall.pdf
new motor coming, and coils, and motor mounts..
beers
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...res_recall.pdf
new motor coming, and coils, and motor mounts..
beers
Thanks for the info swoope, thats good stuff...you are a serious power-poster.
Yeah it sounds like I need that recall to come full circle
05-18-2007, 09:16 PM
#5
Yeah, I think it is safe to say that you are getting a motor under recall and a new CAT.
This is a "typical" failure mode.
Depending on the competency of the shop, it is likely that your major troubles will end after the new motor and CAT.
However, remain diligent since the reman motors are coming back with problems, too.
This is a "typical" failure mode.
Depending on the competency of the shop, it is likely that your major troubles will end after the new motor and CAT.
However, remain diligent since the reman motors are coming back with problems, too.
05-18-2007, 09:48 PM
#6
Damn, by looking at your service history, your car did repaired alot of stuff. they replaced the pcm couple of times already, wow. they even replaced the engine once. You have an A/T huh.
but whoever did all those crap were idiots, if the problem still happens after couple of PCM replacement, obviously the PCM is not the problem, what the hell is Mazda thinking.
What I will do if I were you is that, let them give you another engine replacement, add an oil cooler, then start using Synthetic oil for higher temp resistance.
You will need a new engine. trust me on that one.
but whoever did all those crap were idiots, if the problem still happens after couple of PCM replacement, obviously the PCM is not the problem, what the hell is Mazda thinking.
What I will do if I were you is that, let them give you another engine replacement, add an oil cooler, then start using Synthetic oil for higher temp resistance.
You will need a new engine. trust me on that one.
05-18-2007, 09:53 PM
#8
Damn, by looking at your service history, your car did repaired alot of stuff. they replaced the pcm couple of times already, wow. they even replaced the engine once. You have an A/T huh.
but whoever did all those crap were idiots, if the problem still happens after couple of PCM replacement, obviously the PCM is not the problem, what the hell is Mazda thinking.
What I will do if I were you is that, let them give you another engine replacement, add an oil cooler, then start using Synthetic oil for higher temp resistance.
You will need a new engine. trust me on that one.
but whoever did all those crap were idiots, if the problem still happens after couple of PCM replacement, obviously the PCM is not the problem, what the hell is Mazda thinking.
What I will do if I were you is that, let them give you another engine replacement, add an oil cooler, then start using Synthetic oil for higher temp resistance.
You will need a new engine. trust me on that one.
beers
05-18-2007, 09:59 PM
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Hey......sorry, I don't want to hijack the thread or anything. Damn 04's are just cursed! Swoope...........you headed over this way tomorrow? haven't talked to Bastage yet, so don't know if he'll make it up or not. I'll probably call him in the morning but I may have to go into the office tomorrow.
05-18-2007, 09:59 PM
#10
I wasnt looking at it. the service record saids A/T
yeah, it was M/T
but according to his record his car did the latest recall already.
a Brand new short block (the engine itself) cost about 5.5 K if buy online. not so bad. oh wait lets not get into that.
Anyway, they will have to replace yoru engine and force them to give u some new mounts, new wire harness. etc.
yeah, it was M/T
but according to his record his car did the latest recall already.
a Brand new short block (the engine itself) cost about 5.5 K if buy online. not so bad. oh wait lets not get into that.
Anyway, they will have to replace yoru engine and force them to give u some new mounts, new wire harness. etc.
05-18-2007, 10:01 PM
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Damn, by looking at your service history, your car did repaired alot of stuff. they replaced the pcm couple of times already, wow. they even replaced the engine once. You have an A/T huh.
but whoever did all those crap were idiots, if the problem still happens after couple of PCM replacement, obviously the PCM is not the problem, what the hell is Mazda thinking.
What I will do if I were you is that, let them give you another engine replacement, add an oil cooler, then start using Synthetic oil for higher temp resistance.
You will need a new engine. trust me on that one.
but whoever did all those crap were idiots, if the problem still happens after couple of PCM replacement, obviously the PCM is not the problem, what the hell is Mazda thinking.
What I will do if I were you is that, let them give you another engine replacement, add an oil cooler, then start using Synthetic oil for higher temp resistance.
You will need a new engine. trust me on that one.
But I definitely don't have an automatic trans. Don't know why it says "A/T"....but trust me, I am 6-speed all the way
05-18-2007, 10:03 PM
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It was a Florida car, I bought it from Maple Shade Mazda, NJ....it was listed on eBay, but I made a deal off ebay. I'll post more info bout its origins in a few minutes, have to dig them up
05-18-2007, 10:06 PM
#13
Actually, I am not sure if it has the original engine or not. The service manager saw the "ENGINE, SHORT A/T" line and thought it had a new engine too. But the main tech was there, and said it stood for something else, not a new engine. I really don't know to tell you the truth.
But I definitely don't have an automatic trans. Don't know why it says "A/T"....but trust me, I am 6-speed all the way
But I definitely don't have an automatic trans. Don't know why it says "A/T"....but trust me, I am 6-speed all the way
but I guess what you got was a reman, and it showing problems.
I have a feeling that the original owner abuse the crap out of the car, I mean seriously after like what 5 PCM replacement, 1(possible) engine replacement, its gotta be something else thats causing the problem. right ?
they replaced the harness once, thats like 1.8 K already. geeze. Mazda should've just trash this car, its costing them even more money now.
front rotor replaced ... and so on, Damn
your car should be consider as NEW, most of the stuff has been replaced ! Hmm our engine usually die because of overheating (like most engines, even pistons), have them check the cooling performance of your stuff, might sound kinda stupid but, maybe a clog somewhere in the cooling system? oil cooler? radiator ?
Last edited by nycgps; 05-18-2007 at 10:10 PM.
05-18-2007, 10:10 PM
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Dealer Code of Purchse - 23670
Original Owner: *****************
Assembly date: 8/4/03
Warranty start: 10/10/03
Ring any bells?
Last edited by lehighluke; 05-18-2007 at 10:55 PM.
05-18-2007, 10:12 PM
#15
Hey......sorry, I don't want to hijack the thread or anything. Damn 04's are just cursed! Swoope...........you headed over this way tomorrow? haven't talked to Bastage yet, so don't know if he'll make it up or not. I'll probably call him in the morning but I may have to go into the office tomorrow.
no,
got my brakes done today... ugly ugly night at work last night... going to the track day at rr in ga...
note to all speed bleeders WORK!
beers
05-18-2007, 10:13 PM
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Means something else? that part number is engine's part number. stood for something else what ?
but I guess what you got was a reman, and it showing problems.
I have a feeling that the original owner abuse the crap out of the car, I mean seriously after like what 5 PCM replacement, 1(possible) engine replacement, its gotta be something else thats causing the problem. right ?
they replaced the harness once, thats like 1.8 K already. geeze. Mazda should've just trash this car, its costing them even more money now.
front rotor replaced ... and so on, Damn
your car should be consider as NEW, most of the stuff has been replaced ! Hmm our engine usually die because of overheating (like most engines, even pistons), have them check the cooling performance of your stuff, might sound kinda stupid but, maybe a clog somewhere in the cooling system? oil cooler? radiator ?
but I guess what you got was a reman, and it showing problems.
I have a feeling that the original owner abuse the crap out of the car, I mean seriously after like what 5 PCM replacement, 1(possible) engine replacement, its gotta be something else thats causing the problem. right ?
they replaced the harness once, thats like 1.8 K already. geeze. Mazda should've just trash this car, its costing them even more money now.
front rotor replaced ... and so on, Damn
your car should be consider as NEW, most of the stuff has been replaced ! Hmm our engine usually die because of overheating (like most engines, even pistons), have them check the cooling performance of your stuff, might sound kinda stupid but, maybe a clog somewhere in the cooling system? oil cooler? radiator ?
which service codes pertain to the harness, F.Rotor, etc... that you are talking about? Do you know the significance of many items displying "0" for QTY?
Thx
05-18-2007, 10:16 PM
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Guess I have to buy you that beer at longdoggers another time!
Drive safe................but fast!
Hey..........where'd ya get the speed bleeders?
05-18-2007, 10:34 PM
#21
might have something to do the moron who work on this car b4 (when it was in Florida) he probably thought that 0 is the same as 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 ....
I mean, if he can put Short Bock A/T in your service record(while your car is clearly M/T). Anything is possible !!!!!
05-18-2007, 10:36 PM
#22
well I always have people around my house, so I dont think I need to waste that money ... use it for premix or whatever u know :P
maybe I will get some later ... not this time
Last edited by nycgps; 05-19-2007 at 06:34 AM.
05-20-2007, 11:45 PM
#24
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there is nothing in the service history about pcm replacement. those are just flashes.
****,temp - replaced cracked ac temp control ****
bracket,insulator- replaced the tranny dmpner bracket first recall
cord,short- airbag harness in glove compartment 2nd recall
insulator-part of teh dmpner recall bit
plate,disc- changed brakes for squeal
module,powertrain control- flash
plate,disc-brakes for squeal
module, powertrain control- flash to NEW M flash- goes from N3H to N3Z
cap,filler- replaced gas cap, due to CEL that recurred after flash
arm,lower-recall check of lower control arm not replaced. speedsource actually found this issue
battery-new better battery
pad insulator-for the gas tank recall
warraenty-egi- not a new engine just a mark in the history to do with the recall
engine,short a/t - appears to me to be a block needs clarification on the 0
module-flash but there wasnt a new one at that time
freight- for reimburse to ship the engine? doesnt sound right
plate- plastic underneath- probably lost a clip like MM
flash
flash
flash- they werent changing anything that would fix anything
joint ,airhose- not sure, need that part looked up
the rest is the last recall and new plug wires and coils.
florida car its possible you had a reman engine put in and it is going bad on you.
****,temp - replaced cracked ac temp control ****
bracket,insulator- replaced the tranny dmpner bracket first recall
cord,short- airbag harness in glove compartment 2nd recall
insulator-part of teh dmpner recall bit
plate,disc- changed brakes for squeal
module,powertrain control- flash
plate,disc-brakes for squeal
module, powertrain control- flash to NEW M flash- goes from N3H to N3Z
cap,filler- replaced gas cap, due to CEL that recurred after flash
arm,lower-recall check of lower control arm not replaced. speedsource actually found this issue
battery-new better battery
pad insulator-for the gas tank recall
warraenty-egi- not a new engine just a mark in the history to do with the recall
engine,short a/t - appears to me to be a block needs clarification on the 0
module-flash but there wasnt a new one at that time
freight- for reimburse to ship the engine? doesnt sound right
plate- plastic underneath- probably lost a clip like MM
flash
flash
flash- they werent changing anything that would fix anything
joint ,airhose- not sure, need that part looked up
the rest is the last recall and new plug wires and coils.
florida car its possible you had a reman engine put in and it is going bad on you.
