Car wont start (Out of town and desparate)
10-04-2010, 07:22 PM
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Car wont start (Out of town and desparate)
Sounds simple
The cars been running fine to date. I'm way out of town (Magog, Quebec) stop for dinner, come out an hour later and wont start.
Lights all work (they weren't left on)
I hear one click with the turn of the ignition, no sound of the starter even trying to turn over
Jump start, made no difference
Thought it might be the starter, but I was unable to even bump start (I had some experience with this some months ago with a broken clutch switch, this car is easy to bump start)
Swapped back in old clutch switch to see if any difference , no luck
3/4 tank of gas (if it was a gas issue I'd still expect it to still turn over)
Check connection at battery terminal, tight.
Last note
Battery replace a bit over a year ago
Running BHR ignition coils...
No existing irregularities?
Engine and upper intake replace last December
Would a bad neutral switch prevent a bump start?
This really has me scratching my head and I want to get home.
Any thoughts?
The cars been running fine to date. I'm way out of town (Magog, Quebec) stop for dinner, come out an hour later and wont start.
Lights all work (they weren't left on)
I hear one click with the turn of the ignition, no sound of the starter even trying to turn over
Jump start, made no difference
Thought it might be the starter, but I was unable to even bump start (I had some experience with this some months ago with a broken clutch switch, this car is easy to bump start)
Swapped back in old clutch switch to see if any difference , no luck
3/4 tank of gas (if it was a gas issue I'd still expect it to still turn over)
Check connection at battery terminal, tight.
Last note
Battery replace a bit over a year ago
Running BHR ignition coils...
No existing irregularities?
Engine and upper intake replace last December
Would a bad neutral switch prevent a bump start?
This really has me scratching my head and I want to get home.
Any thoughts?
10-04-2010, 07:54 PM
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I apreciate the thought Bluerensis
If it was a flood issue, the engine the engine would turn over, but not start. I haven't checked the wiring as yet. I will add that to the list to check in the morning. I would still expect the engine to turn over with with a bad connection between the coil and plugs.
I'm sort of thinking fuse (didn't think to check this before I left the car in the parking lot, nor do I know if there is one fuse that would effect the starter only, I'll start looking for that info too)
Possibly lost a ground at the starter (the roads are rough here)
If it was a flood issue, the engine the engine would turn over, but not start. I haven't checked the wiring as yet. I will add that to the list to check in the morning. I would still expect the engine to turn over with with a bad connection between the coil and plugs.
I'm sort of thinking fuse (didn't think to check this before I left the car in the parking lot, nor do I know if there is one fuse that would effect the starter only, I'll start looking for that info too)
Possibly lost a ground at the starter (the roads are rough here)
10-04-2010, 08:58 PM
#4
I apreciate the thought Bluerensis
If it was a flood issue, the engine the engine would turn over, but not start. I haven't checked the wiring as yet. I will add that to the list to check in the morning. I would still expect the engine to turn over with with a bad connection between the coil and plugs.
I'm sort of thinking fuse (didn't think to check this before I left the car in the parking lot, nor do I know if there is one fuse that would effect the starter only, I'll start looking for that info too)
Possibly lost a ground at the starter (the roads are rough here)
If it was a flood issue, the engine the engine would turn over, but not start. I haven't checked the wiring as yet. I will add that to the list to check in the morning. I would still expect the engine to turn over with with a bad connection between the coil and plugs.
I'm sort of thinking fuse (didn't think to check this before I left the car in the parking lot, nor do I know if there is one fuse that would effect the starter only, I'll start looking for that info too)
Possibly lost a ground at the starter (the roads are rough here)
10-04-2010, 09:08 PM
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I'm glad I come across as young (not some much dumb), You made my day. I take all I can get now that I'm 50
10-04-2010, 09:23 PM
#6
this sounds almost exactly like my issue
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/car-wouldnt-start-please-help-205740/
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/car-wouldnt-start-please-help-205740/
10-04-2010, 09:29 PM
#7
10-04-2010, 09:43 PM
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Thanks for the link , sounds very similar. I check the fuses in the morning.
Frustrated, one moment working an hour later not working. Focusing on thing related to the starter as it's the specific item not responding. I hope to get it started and back home where more options are available.
Frustrated, one moment working an hour later not working. Focusing on thing related to the starter as it's the specific item not responding. I hope to get it started and back home where more options are available.
10-05-2010, 11:36 AM
#9
Hermitage Holdout
If fuse / neutral switch checks fails to turn up a fix, don't discount a bad battery. If it was completely tanked you may not be getting enough juice to the starter immediately after hooking up jumper cables with another vehicle. Since your out of town, assuming you don't have access to a multi-meter to actually check outputs from the battery or the alternator...
10-05-2010, 11:44 AM
#10
After that........
Check to make sure the wiring harness for your BHR Ignition System has not been somehow pinched or chafed and causing a short of any of the pink wires. This will cause the IGN fuse under the hood to blow and may result in the issue you have. If this ends up being the case, get the car running and back home and send me the harness for free repair.
Check to make sure the wiring harness for your BHR Ignition System has not been somehow pinched or chafed and causing a short of any of the pink wires. This will cause the IGN fuse under the hood to blow and may result in the issue you have. If this ends up being the case, get the car running and back home and send me the harness for free repair.
10-05-2010, 04:49 PM
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Success!!!!
An update
First thanks for all the help and suggestions from everyone.
I took a taxi back to the car this morning.
Tried to start it with fingers crossed...crossing my fingers didn't help, no start. My wife noted the she heard something she didn't hear the night before, the air pump was working.
So check the fuses, all OK. Seems the 2004 Canadian version a least does not have a 120A fuse. The location is shown on the fuse cover but wires are just hardwired directly to terminals on the fuse box. I still called that one ok.
Check connections to the starter motor seemed solid, gave the starter a couple of "taps" with a wench to free up anything that might be stuck
Also checked the battery connection, looked fine but I took them off cleaned and put back (no oxide...on the terminal, looked clean)
Crossed fingers again
With a delayed response it turned over and started. I drove it to a dealer and turned it off and 5 minutes later tried to start it back on, a hesitant start but Success
I'm back home now, had several restarts along the way, had to stop for gas ...
At this point I suspect the battery terminal lead connection, I think the rough roads in Magog was able to shake the ground loose. I don't know why the jump start didn't work last night but I'm thinking in hind site the good Samaritans who took pity on me may not have connected the other end of the jumper cables correctly (I never thought to check)
I going to replace the connectors on the battery leads and have the battery tested. I see what to do after that based on the results. After the second restart the delay in starting up went completely away
Once again thanks for the help.
First thanks for all the help and suggestions from everyone.
I took a taxi back to the car this morning.
Tried to start it with fingers crossed...crossing my fingers didn't help, no start. My wife noted the she heard something she didn't hear the night before, the air pump was working.
So check the fuses, all OK. Seems the 2004 Canadian version a least does not have a 120A fuse. The location is shown on the fuse cover but wires are just hardwired directly to terminals on the fuse box. I still called that one ok.
Check connections to the starter motor seemed solid, gave the starter a couple of "taps" with a wench to free up anything that might be stuck
Also checked the battery connection, looked fine but I took them off cleaned and put back (no oxide...on the terminal, looked clean)
Crossed fingers again
With a delayed response it turned over and started. I drove it to a dealer and turned it off and 5 minutes later tried to start it back on, a hesitant start but Success
I'm back home now, had several restarts along the way, had to stop for gas ...
At this point I suspect the battery terminal lead connection, I think the rough roads in Magog was able to shake the ground loose. I don't know why the jump start didn't work last night but I'm thinking in hind site the good Samaritans who took pity on me may not have connected the other end of the jumper cables correctly (I never thought to check)
I going to replace the connectors on the battery leads and have the battery tested. I see what to do after that based on the results. After the second restart the delay in starting up went completely away
Once again thanks for the help.
10-06-2010, 05:44 PM
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I'm back
Not out of the woods yet.
This morning no start, back to square one.
I was able to bump start it so I could get to work. Mid afternoon I tried to start it again to see what sort of evening I was in for. It didn't start on the first try but it did on the second. One observation was if it's going to start you will hear the air pump start otherwise the car is not going to start. As I hear of people running without an air pump I'm going with that no preventing the car from starting.
Checked the starter interlock switch - tested OK
Checked battery voltage as soon as I got home 12.9 volts and about an 1/2 hour later 12.75- I'll keep an eye on this and check it again in the morning. From this I'm drawing the conclusion the alternator is charging fine.
Currently thinking if the battery still has a good charge in the morning it's the starter motor. When it connects it starts first time (note this is not the original starter, It's been replaced about a year ago, crank rpm last tested 300 rpm). Specifically I expect the starter itself is fine but the starter solenoid is not working consistently?
This morning no start, back to square one.
I was able to bump start it so I could get to work. Mid afternoon I tried to start it again to see what sort of evening I was in for. It didn't start on the first try but it did on the second. One observation was if it's going to start you will hear the air pump start otherwise the car is not going to start. As I hear of people running without an air pump I'm going with that no preventing the car from starting.
Checked the starter interlock switch - tested OK
Checked battery voltage as soon as I got home 12.9 volts and about an 1/2 hour later 12.75- I'll keep an eye on this and check it again in the morning. From this I'm drawing the conclusion the alternator is charging fine.
Currently thinking if the battery still has a good charge in the morning it's the starter motor. When it connects it starts first time (note this is not the original starter, It's been replaced about a year ago, crank rpm last tested 300 rpm). Specifically I expect the starter itself is fine but the starter solenoid is not working consistently?
10-06-2010, 06:11 PM
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Also thinking about the starter relay.
The hit and miss starts are frustrating.
10-06-2010, 06:15 PM
#16
With the handful of diagnosis threads going on I confused your situation with another one and failed to remember your details. Sorry, Ken.
The only things you can do are to verify all the electrical connections (battery, starter harness, etc.) and bypass the CPP (clutch pedal position) switch. If these do not help, you probably have a bad ignition switch. I have heard of at least two people with failing switches lately.
The only things you can do are to verify all the electrical connections (battery, starter harness, etc.) and bypass the CPP (clutch pedal position) switch. If these do not help, you probably have a bad ignition switch. I have heard of at least two people with failing switches lately.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 10-06-2010 at 06:18 PM.
10-07-2010, 05:58 AM
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any news?
I have same problem. Turning the key will onlyenergize all the ignition components, but no click no sound, the starter solenoid not even click. Normally it starts up after half an hour or several hours later, it starts up like norhing happened for few days.
I changed to a high power battery from a second car, there is a difference starting the car, old battery take 2-3 turns. After the battery changes only one turn and it starts up. Battery terminals checked, clean and tight.
I changed the clutch interlock switch (manual transmission) this morning. The new switch with a longer plunger. I thoughL problem fixed. But left work at 5, same thing no sound, turn the key, no crank with the starter. After dinner, went back try it. It fired up first crank. I can hear the starter crank up and the solenoid kicks in.
I will probably order the CPP clutch position switch, but this switch supposely affects the cruise control and the rpm.
The starter replaced 4 years ago with the new model by the dealer. checked starter connections ok. Does not sound it is starter problem, the power did not get to it.
A lot people reported with similar issue here, however there is no real root cause of this problem.
Please provide the info if you able fix it.
Thanks
I changed to a high power battery from a second car, there is a difference starting the car, old battery take 2-3 turns. After the battery changes only one turn and it starts up. Battery terminals checked, clean and tight.
I changed the clutch interlock switch (manual transmission) this morning. The new switch with a longer plunger. I thoughL problem fixed. But left work at 5, same thing no sound, turn the key, no crank with the starter. After dinner, went back try it. It fired up first crank. I can hear the starter crank up and the solenoid kicks in.
I will probably order the CPP clutch position switch, but this switch supposely affects the cruise control and the rpm.
The starter replaced 4 years ago with the new model by the dealer. checked starter connections ok. Does not sound it is starter problem, the power did not get to it.
A lot people reported with similar issue here, however there is no real root cause of this problem.
Please provide the info if you able fix it.
Thanks
10-07-2010, 04:38 PM
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As of this morning I checked the battery and it holding a charge well 12.77volts. I still will replace the contacts this weekend as they don't snug up very well.
The car has started well all day today. In a way I was hopping the problem would crop up so I could try a few things to help nail this down. I want to swap the starter relay for one. Currently three things on my list, starter relay, clutch switch (Checked and confirmed working but have not checked the wiring harness) and lastly but feeling most likely the starter itself.
Seems like I have to be in a difficult situation for it to fail.
The car has started well all day today. In a way I was hopping the problem would crop up so I could try a few things to help nail this down. I want to swap the starter relay for one. Currently three things on my list, starter relay, clutch switch (Checked and confirmed working but have not checked the wiring harness) and lastly but feeling most likely the starter itself.
Seems like I have to be in a difficult situation for it to fail.
10-07-2010, 05:11 PM
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Did you check the ground to the frame? By getting in and out of the car or shutting the door you might just be getting it to make enough contact to start.
Oh yea...and I would def. get a 120A fuse for your car. Whether or not the Canadian car came with it from the factory or not shouldn't matter...it is a level of protection that was put there for a reason at least in the US car.
Oh yea...and I would def. get a 120A fuse for your car. Whether or not the Canadian car came with it from the factory or not shouldn't matter...it is a level of protection that was put there for a reason at least in the US car.
Last edited by DeViLbOi; 10-07-2010 at 05:41 PM.
10-07-2010, 06:16 PM
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I'll add the ground check to the list, sounds like a good one to check.
Can someone confirm the 120amp fuse location or lack of one in my picture, perhaps post one to show me what I'm missing? Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like it should be where I have two heavy gauge wires bolted directly to the fuse box terminals.
Can someone confirm the 120amp fuse location or lack of one in my picture, perhaps post one to show me what I'm missing? Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like it should be where I have two heavy gauge wires bolted directly to the fuse box terminals.
Did you check the ground to the frame? By getting in and out of the car or shutting the door you might just be getting it to make enough contact to start.
Oh yea...and I would def. get a 120A fuse for your car. Whether or not the Canadian car came with it from the factory or not shouldn't matter...it is a level of protection that was put there for a reason at least in the US car.
Oh yea...and I would def. get a 120A fuse for your car. Whether or not the Canadian car came with it from the factory or not shouldn't matter...it is a level of protection that was put there for a reason at least in the US car.
10-09-2010, 09:05 AM
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Ok I haven't had any problems since Wednesday.
Trying to find a problem when it's not actually occurring is makes things a little less methodical and more theoretical, but here my current thinking.
I checked the grounds both at the cable ends and just about any other part under the hood, seems to check out OK. Replaced the negative terminal connector just because it never really tightened up like I feel it should. None of this made a change but made me feel better as I now know those things are off the list.
As things seemed to start consistently after Wednesday I'm thinking the clutch switch on the clutch pedal is the culprit. I took it out of the car on Wednesday night tested it, it did pass but I suspect it's a bit temperamental. The very act of taking it out and putting it back in may have changed/cleaned the contacts. I think I'll pick one up as a spare to carry with me should this occur again.
Sorry no definitive Eureka moment, it just started working again.
Trying to find a problem when it's not actually occurring is makes things a little less methodical and more theoretical, but here my current thinking.
I checked the grounds both at the cable ends and just about any other part under the hood, seems to check out OK. Replaced the negative terminal connector just because it never really tightened up like I feel it should. None of this made a change but made me feel better as I now know those things are off the list.
As things seemed to start consistently after Wednesday I'm thinking the clutch switch on the clutch pedal is the culprit. I took it out of the car on Wednesday night tested it, it did pass but I suspect it's a bit temperamental. The very act of taking it out and putting it back in may have changed/cleaned the contacts. I think I'll pick one up as a spare to carry with me should this occur again.
Sorry no definitive Eureka moment, it just started working again.
10-22-2010, 08:31 AM
#23
Hermitage Holdout
So I just had the same scenario happen to me. 700 mile drive over two days (majority highway at 65 - 80 mph), homeward bound leg with about 150 miles left to go, car has been running flawlessly. Getting to be early evening, need a rest stop break and a bite to eat so pull into McD. In and out a few minutes later, car starts fine as always. Drive another 20 minutes and get to a Sunoco station with decent prices for 93 octane so pull in for a refill. Refill complete, turn the key and... one click on the starter.
Get out and check fuses, relays, battery terminal connections, etc. Only thing I find is connector to negative terminal on battery is a wee loose (can jiggle it a tad). Also note just a little white powdery oxidation on back half of negative terminal connector. Brand new Diehard Platinum battery so chalk that up to a little settle in the connector since I installed battery a few weeks earlier. No tools with me (had just transferred to my truck for the winter). Pretty much dead meat. Another guy pulls up to the pump about 20 minutes later and sees me hunched over the engine bay with the hood up - takes a minute to ask me what's up - I tell him no start. Ask him if he could help push the car to the end of the parking lot (about a 30 foot haul) where there is a small drop off in the pavement - hoping to build up enough momentum to be able to pop the clutch. He agrees, we do it, car starts, I drive home without shutting off again. Once home, try a few more times but still... one solid click.
First chance to work on it was last night. Step one is to mix a baking powder and water solution, pour over the negative battery terminal (careful not to get any near positive terminal and make a connection via water), and dissolve the oxidation. Then check battery voltage - solid 14+ volts so no problem there. Then try starter... one solid click.
Step two, prop the car up crawl under it and visually inspect starter. Looks fine. Test current coming from the battery to the main power terminal on the solenoid - also 14+ volts so no problem with incoming juice. Give the solenoid a couple of good whacks with a hammer just in case the solenoid is hung up. Try starter... one click.
Step three, start checking connections on starter one by one. First one is the main power lead coming into the solenoid. Note that it is secure, but about a quarter turn from being completely snug. Remove and clean this connector with a little fine grit sandpaper, put it back on and snug it down. Try starter... one click.
Step four, next check the connector for the ignition switch. It is on tight but note it is a little dirty. Clean the connector tab with fine grit sandpaper, reattach the connector, and try starter... one click.
Step five, check the connector on the solenoid with the lead to the starter itself. It is snug. Take it off anyway and clean with sandpaper. Reinstall and snug down. Try starter and... It Starts Right Up!!!
Started and restarted a half dozen times after it warmed up - flawless.
Go out for a drive to start resetting fuel trims, etc (since I disconnected the battery back in step 1) - shut down / restart at least another half-dozen times - still flawless.
Keeping fingers crossed now that it was only the connections that needed a little attention!!!
Get out and check fuses, relays, battery terminal connections, etc. Only thing I find is connector to negative terminal on battery is a wee loose (can jiggle it a tad). Also note just a little white powdery oxidation on back half of negative terminal connector. Brand new Diehard Platinum battery so chalk that up to a little settle in the connector since I installed battery a few weeks earlier. No tools with me (had just transferred to my truck for the winter). Pretty much dead meat. Another guy pulls up to the pump about 20 minutes later and sees me hunched over the engine bay with the hood up - takes a minute to ask me what's up - I tell him no start. Ask him if he could help push the car to the end of the parking lot (about a 30 foot haul) where there is a small drop off in the pavement - hoping to build up enough momentum to be able to pop the clutch. He agrees, we do it, car starts, I drive home without shutting off again. Once home, try a few more times but still... one solid click.
First chance to work on it was last night. Step one is to mix a baking powder and water solution, pour over the negative battery terminal (careful not to get any near positive terminal and make a connection via water), and dissolve the oxidation. Then check battery voltage - solid 14+ volts so no problem there. Then try starter... one solid click.
Step two, prop the car up crawl under it and visually inspect starter. Looks fine. Test current coming from the battery to the main power terminal on the solenoid - also 14+ volts so no problem with incoming juice. Give the solenoid a couple of good whacks with a hammer just in case the solenoid is hung up. Try starter... one click.
Step three, start checking connections on starter one by one. First one is the main power lead coming into the solenoid. Note that it is secure, but about a quarter turn from being completely snug. Remove and clean this connector with a little fine grit sandpaper, put it back on and snug it down. Try starter... one click.
Step four, next check the connector for the ignition switch. It is on tight but note it is a little dirty. Clean the connector tab with fine grit sandpaper, reattach the connector, and try starter... one click.
Step five, check the connector on the solenoid with the lead to the starter itself. It is snug. Take it off anyway and clean with sandpaper. Reinstall and snug down. Try starter and... It Starts Right Up!!!
Started and restarted a half dozen times after it warmed up - flawless.
Go out for a drive to start resetting fuel trims, etc (since I disconnected the battery back in step 1) - shut down / restart at least another half-dozen times - still flawless.
Keeping fingers crossed now that it was only the connections that needed a little attention!!!
10-22-2010, 09:59 AM
#24
You can have a battery show 14 volts and not start anything because the voltage drops to noting under a load because a cell is fried. The only real way to check is to put a 100 amp load on the battery with a tester and see if it can hold more than 12 volts.
10-22-2010, 10:55 AM
#25
I'll add the ground check to the list, sounds like a good one to check.
Can someone confirm the 120amp fuse location or lack of one in my picture, perhaps post one to show me what I'm missing? Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like it should be where I have two heavy gauge wires bolted directly to the fuse box terminals.
Can someone confirm the 120amp fuse location or lack of one in my picture, perhaps post one to show me what I'm missing? Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like it should be where I have two heavy gauge wires bolted directly to the fuse box terminals.
What is the little white wire you have added to the fusebox? Your picture makes it look like it has exposed wire in the bottom of the loop??