Car stopped on road, P2004 and P2070
04-17-2013, 04:08 PM
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Car stopped on road, P2004 and P2070
Hi Everybody,
I'm a first time poster but have been a lurker here for a while.
I've got a 2007 GT with 90,000 km (56,000 miles) on it. A couple of days ago it threw a CEL which was a P2004. I looked it up here and saw it was the APV valve so I was planning to get it looked at but I cleared it and figured I'd drive it for a couple days and rev it up since somebody had mentioned that might unstick it.
Then I was on the road and the CEL came on flashing. I decided to pull over but was in a left hand turn lane so decided to turn first. After I was through the intersection I lost all power. I tried to restart the car and could hear it revving but it wouldn't start.
So I got it towed to the dealer. They said it was flooded. I'm not sure if I flooded it trying to start it or if it was like that before shutting off. They wanted to replace the plugs and coils but after I mentioned I had new ones put in only 6 months ago, they went to investigate more.
They ran a compression test which it passed, tried a cold start and a hot start, and ran another compression test while hot, which it also passed. They found a P2070 code.
His only suggestion was that the SSV being stuck had caused the engine to run too lean and that had caused me to lose power. He quoted me $700 to install a new valve.
I got the feeling he didn't really know what was going on, and since the car started I brought it home where it is sitting right now but I am not driving it, I'm not sure how to proceed.
The thing that confuses me is the combination of the two error codes, P2004 and P2070. Could one of these valves cause the other error code to trip, or could they be symptoms of a different problem?
Hoping you guys can shed some light on this. I've looked up the two codes separately on here and if it is just two distinct problems that would be alright to fix but I would hate to go through the trouble of addressing both these valves if there is something else going on here.
Thanks!
I'm a first time poster but have been a lurker here for a while.
I've got a 2007 GT with 90,000 km (56,000 miles) on it. A couple of days ago it threw a CEL which was a P2004. I looked it up here and saw it was the APV valve so I was planning to get it looked at but I cleared it and figured I'd drive it for a couple days and rev it up since somebody had mentioned that might unstick it.
Then I was on the road and the CEL came on flashing. I decided to pull over but was in a left hand turn lane so decided to turn first. After I was through the intersection I lost all power. I tried to restart the car and could hear it revving but it wouldn't start.
So I got it towed to the dealer. They said it was flooded. I'm not sure if I flooded it trying to start it or if it was like that before shutting off. They wanted to replace the plugs and coils but after I mentioned I had new ones put in only 6 months ago, they went to investigate more.
They ran a compression test which it passed, tried a cold start and a hot start, and ran another compression test while hot, which it also passed. They found a P2070 code.
His only suggestion was that the SSV being stuck had caused the engine to run too lean and that had caused me to lose power. He quoted me $700 to install a new valve.
I got the feeling he didn't really know what was going on, and since the car started I brought it home where it is sitting right now but I am not driving it, I'm not sure how to proceed.
The thing that confuses me is the combination of the two error codes, P2004 and P2070. Could one of these valves cause the other error code to trip, or could they be symptoms of a different problem?
Hoping you guys can shed some light on this. I've looked up the two codes separately on here and if it is just two distinct problems that would be alright to fix but I would hate to go through the trouble of addressing both these valves if there is something else going on here.
Thanks!
04-17-2013, 04:20 PM
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Good job on retrieving the car from the dealer, you are correct he doesn't really know what is going on.
First up is the flashing CEL. This is ALWAYS a misfire. Scan through the documentation on the CEL to see that the only lines which trigger a flashing CEL are the misfire codes. See my signature for where to start for misfire resolution.
Next, APV, SSV, and misfire problems are not sufficient to shut down the engine. The source of misfiring COULD be something that IS sufficient to shut down the engine, but it's like you would have been also mentioning severe power loss preceding the problem if that was the case.
Could you describe the shut down itself in more detail? What exactly happened? What didn't happen? Which components were working normally, which were not, which changed state, etc... Sudden shut down of the engine isn't common, though there are some common and simple problems which could cause it, as well as larger more serious ones. Exactly what occurred as it shut down, how it felt, etc... can usually guide you to the cause of the shut down.
First up is the flashing CEL. This is ALWAYS a misfire. Scan through the documentation on the CEL to see that the only lines which trigger a flashing CEL are the misfire codes. See my signature for where to start for misfire resolution.
Next, APV, SSV, and misfire problems are not sufficient to shut down the engine. The source of misfiring COULD be something that IS sufficient to shut down the engine, but it's like you would have been also mentioning severe power loss preceding the problem if that was the case.
Could you describe the shut down itself in more detail? What exactly happened? What didn't happen? Which components were working normally, which were not, which changed state, etc... Sudden shut down of the engine isn't common, though there are some common and simple problems which could cause it, as well as larger more serious ones. Exactly what occurred as it shut down, how it felt, etc... can usually guide you to the cause of the shut down.
04-17-2013, 04:35 PM
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Hey, thanks for replying.
It was quite strange. Before the CEL came on, I was on the highway and noticed a stutter where I lost power for a second, but it came back right away and seemed fine. I continued on my way, and got off at my exit.
That's when the CEL came on, and it did seem a little bit stuttery for the minute or so I drove it before the power just stopped. No jerking or anything, I just hit the gas and had no response. I rolled a bit until I ran out of momentum at the side of the road. Everything else in the car seemed just normal, radio on and everything except the engine.
You are right on the misfire, there was a code for that as well, which I am embarrassed that I forgot to mention.
It was quite strange. Before the CEL came on, I was on the highway and noticed a stutter where I lost power for a second, but it came back right away and seemed fine. I continued on my way, and got off at my exit.
That's when the CEL came on, and it did seem a little bit stuttery for the minute or so I drove it before the power just stopped. No jerking or anything, I just hit the gas and had no response. I rolled a bit until I ran out of momentum at the side of the road. Everything else in the car seemed just normal, radio on and everything except the engine.
You are right on the misfire, there was a code for that as well, which I am embarrassed that I forgot to mention.
04-17-2013, 04:49 PM
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The engine shut-off sounds like a fuel pump failure.
The most common failure for them is when the pump overheats and ceases to deliver fuel. It can cause studdering ahead of the actual failure as the fuel flow diminishes. It's hard to say how frequent that is though, since most people just report the shut-off, and they may have just not felt the immediately preceding symptoms.
The studdering ahead of time indicates that there was momentary random interruption of the fuel delivery and/or ignition power. The misfires could be from this, although an APV or SSV valve problem could trigger misfires as well.
Since you still had electrical power, it is unlikely an electrical failure that killed it, but it's possible. For example if the Eng fuse blew, then it would kill the engine, AND prevent any attempt to re-start it. Electrical failures are typically very immediate, no prior warning, so I don't think that is going to be a factor here. Check fuses anyway, just to be sure.
A vacuum problem could affect the APV and SSV, and at a severe stage, could shut off the engine, however it shouldn't provide any deterrence to re-starting. Keeping it alive after starting, yes, but not the initial start.
An overfill on oil could have burped a chunk of oil into the intake, interfering with the valving, causing misfires, and on the extreme, foul the ignition severely. Another owner did this while hooning in a snow covered parking lot a month or so ago. If you have oil in the upper intake manifold, this could easily be a cause.
You also could have picked up some metal road debris on the e-shaft sensor (which is a magnet), fouling the reading, which can trigger misfires and in the extreme shut off the engine. Easy to just wipe off to ensure that it isn't the problem. Could also have come loose a bit and moved away from the pulley's timing wheel, which would block the ECU from knowing when to inject the fuel and fire the plugs.
Compression loss on the engine is possible, though it would be a slow death with lots of symptoms ahead of time, OR a sudden failure with various unpleasant noises as the seals are chewed up and spit out. None of this was mentioned so I'd guess your problem isn't here.
A severely clogged cat is a possibility too, though would be preceded by heavy power loss from the engine, also not mentioned.
And finally, it's possible that you ran out of gas
There have been a few broken gas gauges over the years that I recall, leading to an out of gas scenario when the gauge reads greater than empty. Put some gas in to be sure that isn't the problem.
The most common failure for them is when the pump overheats and ceases to deliver fuel. It can cause studdering ahead of the actual failure as the fuel flow diminishes. It's hard to say how frequent that is though, since most people just report the shut-off, and they may have just not felt the immediately preceding symptoms.
The studdering ahead of time indicates that there was momentary random interruption of the fuel delivery and/or ignition power. The misfires could be from this, although an APV or SSV valve problem could trigger misfires as well.
Since you still had electrical power, it is unlikely an electrical failure that killed it, but it's possible. For example if the Eng fuse blew, then it would kill the engine, AND prevent any attempt to re-start it. Electrical failures are typically very immediate, no prior warning, so I don't think that is going to be a factor here. Check fuses anyway, just to be sure.
A vacuum problem could affect the APV and SSV, and at a severe stage, could shut off the engine, however it shouldn't provide any deterrence to re-starting. Keeping it alive after starting, yes, but not the initial start.
An overfill on oil could have burped a chunk of oil into the intake, interfering with the valving, causing misfires, and on the extreme, foul the ignition severely. Another owner did this while hooning in a snow covered parking lot a month or so ago. If you have oil in the upper intake manifold, this could easily be a cause.
You also could have picked up some metal road debris on the e-shaft sensor (which is a magnet), fouling the reading, which can trigger misfires and in the extreme shut off the engine. Easy to just wipe off to ensure that it isn't the problem. Could also have come loose a bit and moved away from the pulley's timing wheel, which would block the ECU from knowing when to inject the fuel and fire the plugs.
Compression loss on the engine is possible, though it would be a slow death with lots of symptoms ahead of time, OR a sudden failure with various unpleasant noises as the seals are chewed up and spit out. None of this was mentioned so I'd guess your problem isn't here.
A severely clogged cat is a possibility too, though would be preceded by heavy power loss from the engine, also not mentioned.
And finally, it's possible that you ran out of gas
There have been a few broken gas gauges over the years that I recall, leading to an out of gas scenario when the gauge reads greater than empty. Put some gas in to be sure that isn't the problem.
04-17-2013, 05:37 PM
#5
i read the thread, and imo P2004 and P2070 aren't related to the not running problem, so should be treated later.
if it stumbled, before it misfired, it could be out of gas. fuel pump is another thing that could be checked, as the car will stop running, but there won't be a code.
you should probably clean and reset the ESS. spark plugs might be in your future too.
if its none of those, it might be a battery/grounding issue, which is where you might be getting a weird P2004/P2070.
if it stumbled, before it misfired, it could be out of gas. fuel pump is another thing that could be checked, as the car will stop running, but there won't be a code.
you should probably clean and reset the ESS. spark plugs might be in your future too.
if its none of those, it might be a battery/grounding issue, which is where you might be getting a weird P2004/P2070.
04-17-2013, 06:07 PM
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Thanks for the detailed replies.
If the fuel pump were the issue, would it be faulty only once heated up? I would have thought that it wouldn't be able to start any more if it were the pump, but after they cleared the flood it started.
It did seem to me as I drove it back from the dealer that it had substantially less power than I was used to, which I've read is a symptom of the p2004 and p2070.
I would hope the spark plugs are still okay since I only got them 6 months ago.
I'm planning on taking it in to a mechanic who is supposed to be better at dealing with rotaries so maybe I'll ask him to check the pump as well as the two valves.
If the fuel pump were the issue, would it be faulty only once heated up? I would have thought that it wouldn't be able to start any more if it were the pump, but after they cleared the flood it started.
It did seem to me as I drove it back from the dealer that it had substantially less power than I was used to, which I've read is a symptom of the p2004 and p2070.
I would hope the spark plugs are still okay since I only got them 6 months ago.
I'm planning on taking it in to a mechanic who is supposed to be better at dealing with rotaries so maybe I'll ask him to check the pump as well as the two valves.
Last edited by toronto8; 04-17-2013 at 06:11 PM.
04-17-2013, 10:24 PM
#8
Follow these steps... only move to the next step if you have completed the last step & not found a issue. If you need wiring diagrams let me know.
P2004
- Start the engine and warm-up it above 70°C
- Verify that PCM terminal 3B voltage is 1.5 V or more during idle and decreases to less than 1.5 V when the engine speed is increased.
- Inspect the following wiring harnesses and connectors for an open or short. APV motor terminal A—PCM terminal 3B, APV motor B—PCM 3J, APV motor D—PCM 3G
- Remove APV motor, Measure the resistance between the APV motor terminals (should be 8-50 OHMS), if not in spec replace motor
- Motor test... disconnect negative battery cable, apply 12V to terminal B or D and verify the gears move. Do test both directions.
* Dont apply power for more than 3 seconds at 1 time.
B - 12v, D - GND = Clockwise rotation
B - GND, D - B+ = Counterclockwise roation
P2070
- Check TSB 01-08-13, if that does not solve your problem report back and I can supply diagnosis steps.
P2004
- Start the engine and warm-up it above 70°C
- Verify that PCM terminal 3B voltage is 1.5 V or more during idle and decreases to less than 1.5 V when the engine speed is increased.
- Inspect the following wiring harnesses and connectors for an open or short. APV motor terminal A—PCM terminal 3B, APV motor B—PCM 3J, APV motor D—PCM 3G
- Remove APV motor, Measure the resistance between the APV motor terminals (should be 8-50 OHMS), if not in spec replace motor
- Motor test... disconnect negative battery cable, apply 12V to terminal B or D and verify the gears move. Do test both directions.
* Dont apply power for more than 3 seconds at 1 time.
B - 12v, D - GND = Clockwise rotation
B - GND, D - B+ = Counterclockwise roation
P2070
- Check TSB 01-08-13, if that does not solve your problem report back and I can supply diagnosis steps.
Last edited by Mr.Mango; 04-17-2013 at 10:26 PM.
04-18-2013, 09:06 AM
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Same as the plugs, I got them changed at the same time.
Thanks for the detailed instructions. To be honest, that looks a little bit beyond my abilities at the moment. I am going to take the car to one of the places recommended on here and ask him to look at those steps.
Follow these steps... only move to the next step if you have completed the last step & not found a issue. If you need wiring diagrams let me know.
P2004
- Start the engine and warm-up it above 70°C
- Verify that PCM terminal 3B voltage is 1.5 V or more during idle and decreases to less than 1.5 V when the engine speed is increased.
- Inspect the following wiring harnesses and connectors for an open or short. APV motor terminal A—PCM terminal 3B, APV motor B—PCM 3J, APV motor D—PCM 3G
- Remove APV motor, Measure the resistance between the APV motor terminals (should be 8-50 OHMS), if not in spec replace motor
- Motor test... disconnect negative battery cable, apply 12V to terminal B or D and verify the gears move. Do test both directions.
* Dont apply power for more than 3 seconds at 1 time.
B - 12v, D - GND = Clockwise rotation
B - GND, D - B+ = Counterclockwise roation
P2070
- Check TSB 01-08-13, if that does not solve your problem report back and I can supply diagnosis steps.
P2004
- Start the engine and warm-up it above 70°C
- Verify that PCM terminal 3B voltage is 1.5 V or more during idle and decreases to less than 1.5 V when the engine speed is increased.
- Inspect the following wiring harnesses and connectors for an open or short. APV motor terminal A—PCM terminal 3B, APV motor B—PCM 3J, APV motor D—PCM 3G
- Remove APV motor, Measure the resistance between the APV motor terminals (should be 8-50 OHMS), if not in spec replace motor
- Motor test... disconnect negative battery cable, apply 12V to terminal B or D and verify the gears move. Do test both directions.
* Dont apply power for more than 3 seconds at 1 time.
B - 12v, D - GND = Clockwise rotation
B - GND, D - B+ = Counterclockwise roation
P2070
- Check TSB 01-08-13, if that does not solve your problem report back and I can supply diagnosis steps.
04-18-2013, 07:16 PM
#10
Ya without a multimeter, power probe & wiring diagrams thats a bit indepth but following those steps should find your issue. Good luck!
11-11-2019, 03:51 AM
#11
Wondering what was the issue?
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06-04-2021, 03:09 PM
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Help me pretty please!!
The engine shut-off sounds like a fuel pump failure.
The most common failure for them is when the pump overheats and ceases to deliver fuel. It can cause studdering ahead of the actual failure as the fuel flow diminishes. It's hard to say how frequent that is though, since most people just report the shut-off, and they may have just not felt the immediately preceding symptoms.
The studdering ahead of time indicates that there was momentary random interruption of the fuel delivery and/or ignition power. The misfires could be from this, although an APV or SSV valve problem could trigger misfires as well.
Since you still had electrical power, it is unlikely an electrical failure that killed it, but it's possible. For example if the Eng fuse blew, then it would kill the engine, AND prevent any attempt to re-start it. Electrical failures are typically very immediate, no prior warning, so I don't think that is going to be a factor here. Check fuses anyway, just to be sure.
A vacuum problem could affect the APV and SSV, and at a severe stage, could shut off the engine, however it shouldn't provide any deterrence to re-starting. Keeping it alive after starting, yes, but not the initial start.
An overfill on oil could have burped a chunk of oil into the intake, interfering with the valving, causing misfires, and on the extreme, foul the ignition severely. Another owner did this while hooning in a snow covered parking lot a month or so ago. If you have oil in the upper intake manifold, this could easily be a cause.
You also could have picked up some metal road debris on the e-shaft sensor (which is a magnet), fouling the reading, which can trigger misfires and in the extreme shut off the engine. Easy to just wipe off to ensure that it isn't the problem. Could also have come loose a bit and moved away from the pulley's timing wheel, which would block the ECU from knowing when to inject the fuel and fire the plugs.
Compression loss on the engine is possible, though it would be a slow death with lots of symptoms ahead of time, OR a sudden failure with various unpleasant noises as the seals are chewed up and spit out. None of this was mentioned so I'd guess your problem isn't here.
A severely clogged cat is a possibility too, though would be preceded by heavy power loss from the engine, also not mentioned.
And finally, it's possible that you ran out of gas There have been a few broken gas gauges over the years that I recall, leading to an out of gas scenario when the gauge reads greater than empty. Put some gas in to be sure that isn't the problem.
The most common failure for them is when the pump overheats and ceases to deliver fuel. It can cause studdering ahead of the actual failure as the fuel flow diminishes. It's hard to say how frequent that is though, since most people just report the shut-off, and they may have just not felt the immediately preceding symptoms.
The studdering ahead of time indicates that there was momentary random interruption of the fuel delivery and/or ignition power. The misfires could be from this, although an APV or SSV valve problem could trigger misfires as well.
Since you still had electrical power, it is unlikely an electrical failure that killed it, but it's possible. For example if the Eng fuse blew, then it would kill the engine, AND prevent any attempt to re-start it. Electrical failures are typically very immediate, no prior warning, so I don't think that is going to be a factor here. Check fuses anyway, just to be sure.
A vacuum problem could affect the APV and SSV, and at a severe stage, could shut off the engine, however it shouldn't provide any deterrence to re-starting. Keeping it alive after starting, yes, but not the initial start.
An overfill on oil could have burped a chunk of oil into the intake, interfering with the valving, causing misfires, and on the extreme, foul the ignition severely. Another owner did this while hooning in a snow covered parking lot a month or so ago. If you have oil in the upper intake manifold, this could easily be a cause.
You also could have picked up some metal road debris on the e-shaft sensor (which is a magnet), fouling the reading, which can trigger misfires and in the extreme shut off the engine. Easy to just wipe off to ensure that it isn't the problem. Could also have come loose a bit and moved away from the pulley's timing wheel, which would block the ECU from knowing when to inject the fuel and fire the plugs.
Compression loss on the engine is possible, though it would be a slow death with lots of symptoms ahead of time, OR a sudden failure with various unpleasant noises as the seals are chewed up and spit out. None of this was mentioned so I'd guess your problem isn't here.
A severely clogged cat is a possibility too, though would be preceded by heavy power loss from the engine, also not mentioned.
And finally, it's possible that you ran out of gas
There have been a few broken gas gauges over the years that I recall, leading to an out of gas scenario when the gauge reads greater than empty. Put some gas in to be sure that isn't the problem.
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