Mazurfer

Ah ha..........was wondering how he got a hold of that compression tester. Guess you guys got together through Swoope? I was supposed to call you and possibly borrow that(if Swoope didn't have an issue with it).
Been meaning to call you for awhile now, just have been super busy! So I apologize!

RX-8Passion

PM me your location and we can meet up, as long as Swoope agrees.

RX-8Passion

Cool, thanks everyone, I'm planning on bringing it in next week, what should I tell the dealer to get them to test the engine? Should I just walk in and tell them I believe I have a worn apex seal because I tested the compression myself? Or should I give them symptoms like it is hard to start and seems sluggish?

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

I would tell them it's hard to start and seems very sluggish. Print out the TSB and keep it handy. Ask to see the results of the compression test.

If they end up telling you it is within spec when it obviously isn't, disagree, and threaten to take it up with MNA.

If they do decide to replace your motor under warranty, I believe you only have to pay for coils, wires, plugs, air filter, and fluids , and make sure they are not ripping you off on those parts.

No problem Dave, I know how it goes!

Btw, there's a guy who lives two houses away that also needs a compression test done, but he's also been too busy. If you do manage to borrow it, I might just ride over to you with him so he can test his car. He occasionally loses power (car won't accelerate at full throttle), and his motor has quite a few miles on it.

It looks like the extra battery I included will get put to use very soon (Swoope is awesome for sharing it with all of us). It really is a nice tester... I'll eventually buy one for myself, assuming they're still available.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

In matters like this it is often more productive if you do not immediately let the dealer know how much research you have already done. Register your "concern" (auto industry lingo) and see where it goes from there. Waving a TSB around and discussing worn apex seals is only going to make you appear manipulative. Do as Bastage suggested as far as mentioning difficult hot-starts and a loss-of-power and keep copies of the compression results they get, including cranking RPMs.

Mazurfer

^............I agree whole-heartedly with Ray and Bastage! Don't pull out the TSB right away(or at all), do as suggested....mention hard starts and loss of power............let them take it from there. If/when it ends up getting a compression check, then by all means.....get the numbers and rpm's it was done at. What's the dealership(name) you're going to use?

Bastage..............the guy you talking about have a blue one? I haven't met that person yet and they are right down the street. Seems like the work at ASD or GSD(know what I mean?) Remember....while I'm in that same housing development, I'm in a different house now. Don't think you've even seen this house yet. There was also another gray one in here, but haven't seen that person in quite awhile. I see the blue on heading to Palm Bay some mornings on my way to work. We seem to leave at the same time!

RX8-Passion and Bastage..............I don't really need a compression check, but I'd be more than happy to assist you "G" if/when you do that persons......just let me know! I promise I might even have my cell on me this weekend! I should be in the garage as I might be doing a plug change on my car for the hell of it, and the daughter wants her Zune installed in her 3. Anyway....if the person needs a set of plugs, I still have my 2nd set of plugs with 7k on them that we used when working on Rachels car, and then set I'm about to take out will have about 10k on them, so if he needs plugs...don't have him buy them unless he wants brand new? Guess there is no better time for a compression check than when changing plugs, but I'm running as strong as ever with no issues what-so-ever.

I think it's my turn for burgers and beer at Coasters ain't it? Even if not, I'll buy!
Bring me those coils from Norm if you still got them. I still have that black powdered coated Greddy catch can if you want it.........and I might have other stuff laying around. Plus...........I need to see your car and what's been done to it!

The story:
RX8Passion........it was Swoopes tester that I was going to get from Bastage(if Swoope agreed) and help you do the compression test!
That's what's kinda funny.............through that whole exercise early on in this thread, I was going to check with Bastage about one to see if he might since I knew about his new motor, then Swoope kinda let it out of the bag in this thread that Bastage had his tester..........then by the time I was gonna call Bastage..........you two had met up and done it!
Yes "G"........I want to buy one of those testers as well...........if there are any left!
I also found a link to another nice one and I'll see if I can find it again and PM you with the link.

Hell........been wanting to meet Scott for years........he was one of the first on this club to help me out years ago and even offered to come over to help on something I was installing.
Just for that reason alone, we should all go have beers sometime!
Mmmmmmmmm.................... Even though I don't drink much, I can certainly buy!

RX8 club FTW!

Hell.......I may even wear my uber cool shirt I picked up that my daughter hates so much!

Mazurfer

See below post from me for the full story!

RX-8Passion

I was going to ask about that, I been taking it to Classic Mazda in Orlando pretty much ever since I bought it in 2004 (from Corey Fairbanks, Longwood), but was thinking of going to Melbourne....What do you suggest, should I stick with Classic since they have all my records? I know the Melbourne location has that good mechanic, so I was thinking there would be better.

RX-8Passion

So I just wanted to check one more thing tonight, So I performed a decarbon with Mazda Zoom Cleaner. Posting this just for future reference, looks like I'm still failing all tests.

Minimum at 250 RPM is 98.6 PSI

Front Rotor

@250RPM, 93.5, 93.5, 92.5

@250RPM, 94.5, 94.5, 93.5

Rear Rotor

@250RPM, 93.5, 94.5, 92.5

@250RPM, 93.5, 93.5, 95.5

Mazurfer

There's no guarantee that if you took it to Boniface that you'd get any better service than Classic. That's a hard call to make. PBLUE doesn't like Boniface as they overfilled his oil one time(but obviously they aren't going to put the best mechanic on an oil change). If you are comfortable with Classic, then I'd stay there as you are a repeat customer and that may count for something?????
Only experience I have with Classic is when I was looking to buy a 3 for my daughter. The only input I have there is even though I didn't buy a car from them(as they didn't have what we were looking for) the sales department was better than most I ran into.

RX-8Passion

Taking my car in tonight. I told them it is having a tough time starting and I have loss of power....Wish me luck. I should know more tomorrow.

Mazurfer

Good luck man..............let us know the outcome.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

wow,

my tester has got some miles on it!!!! dave, you can use it anytime, you really did not need to ask. i just have not been here much lately..

karl.. got you email.. shipping it back is the best. i really do need it next weekend. have a track event in may, and have to decide which car to take. btw, classic has the master tech i used to work with at fairbanks. he is english and his name is andy.. he knows his ****. and owns a rx8.. i have not talked to him for a while.. if you need any help, i know a few people there..

but really as everyone says.. car starts sluggishly.. likely they will do the decarb again.. and go from that point.

coasters, wow. have not been there in years! i would show up for that.

beers

RX-8Passion

They claim I need new coils. I asked for the results of the compression test. Waiting for a call back.

RX-8Passion

seems strange the test RPM is the same as the adjusted


thoughts?

Mazurfer

Wait, am I reading it wrong? Doesn't the test rpm read 249? That's pretty damn close to 250.

Or................are you saying these against the numbers you got on the TR-01?

RX-8Passion

Yes the test RPM is 249 and they adjusted it to 250 and all the numbers are above the 680 minimum. I double check the numbers and they look right. The test RPM is about 30 RPM off than what I got with the TR-01

So they are saying there is nothing wrong with the engine.

Mazurfer

Ran those numbers through a program I had and this is what it comes up with.

I will share the source of this program with you in a little while and the tables it was developed from, but I'm late for a meeting!




Back from meeting. Here's what the above program uses, but I didn't write it so, I can't say it's 100% checked out, but it looks like it works.


The Ratings use the limits below

Compression Rating

PHP Code:
Select Case Val(c_value)
Case Is > 845: Valuate_C150 = "High Compression"
Case 835 To 845: Valuate_C150 = "Standard to High Compression"
Case 822.5 To 835: Valuate_C150 = "Standard"
Case 807.5 To 822.5: Valuate_C150 = "Very Good to Standard"
Case 792.5 To 807.5: Valuate_C150 = "Very Good"
Case 777.5 To 792.5: Valuate_C150 = "Good to Very Good"
Case 762.5 To 777.5: Valuate_C150 = "Good"
Case 747.5 To 762.5: Valuate_C150 = "Fair to Good"
Case 732.5 To 747.5: Valuate_C150 = "Fair"
Case 717.5 To 732.5: Valuate_C150 = "Bad to Fair"
Case 702.5 To 717.5: Valuate_C150 = "Bad"
Case 687.5 To 702.5: Valuate_C150 = "Very Bad to Bad"
Case Is <= 687.5: Valuate_C150 = "Very Bad/Change Motor/Rebuild"
Case Else
End Select

Standard Difference in Chambers (150 kpa) rating

PHP Code:
Select Case c_value
Case Is < 1: Valuate_D150 = "Zero, Ideal"
Case Is = 1, 1 To 15: Valuate_D150 = "Best to Ideal"
Case 15 To 30: Valuate_D150 = "Best"
Case 30 To 45: Valuate_D150 = "Very Good to Best"
Case 45 To 60: Valuate_D150 = "Very Good"
Case 60 To 75: Valuate_D150 = "Good to Very Good"
Case 76 To 90: Valuate_D150 = "Good"
Case 90 To 105: Valuate_D150 = "Fair to Good"
Case 105 To 120: Valuate_D150 = "Fair"
Case 120 To 135: Valuate_D150 = "Bad to Fair"
Case 135 To 150: Valuate_D150 = "Bad"
Case Is > 150: Valuate_D150 = "Very Bad/Change Motor/Rebuild"
Case Else
End Select

Standard Difference in Rotors (100 kpa) rating

PHP Code:
Select Case c_value
Case Is < 1: Valuate_D100 = "Zero, ideal"
Case Is = 1, 1 To 10: Valuate_D100 = "Best to ideal"
Case 10 To 20: Valuate_D100 = "Best"
Case 20 To 30: Valuate_D100 = "Very Good to Best"
Case 30 To 40: Valuate_D100 = "Very Good"
Case 40 To 50: Valuate_D100 = "Good to Very Good"
Case 50 To 60: Valuate_D100 = "Good"
Case 60 To 70: Valuate_D100 = "Fair to Good"
Case 70 To 80: Valuate_D100 = "Fair"
Case 80 To 90: Valuate_D100 = "Bad to Fair"
Case 90 To 100: Valuate_D100 = "Bad"
Case Is > 100: Valuate_D100 = "Very Bad/Change Motor/Rebuild"
Case Else
End Select

RX-8Passion

Yep, looks about the same as mazda's results, still way off from the TR-01 which showed my engine as bad...

Oh well, spent $110 to at least know my engine is good for now....

Mazurfer

Yep, when I load in your PSI and rpm numbers off the TR-01, this is what it looks like:

There was some discussion in that TR-01 thread that it might be a little off from the "Mazda" tester, but it would be a good indication of where compression was. I took your numbers post Seafoam and I hate to say it, but looks like you are close to the edge anyway.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

post.

beers

RX-8Passion

Someone suggested that maybe they did the test before warming up the engine, think that would have a 30-40kPa difference and an RPM difference of about 25 RPM? the thinking is the higher viscosity of the oil (cooler oil temp) might give false results.

Mazurfer

I'd agree and was thinking that way as well when you posted the results. But........I'm not an expert by any means, so someone with more experience than I is going to have to jump in. How about in that other thread? Did anyone respond to what you wrote about it being off? Guess I need to go look and see huh?

RX-8Passion

So I replaced the coils like the dealer and people on here suggested, now I got a blinking CEL at high speeds 60 to 70-ish and now the CEL is on full time with a Misfire in Cylinder 1. Did I get a bad coil?

Edit: I checked the coils, they seem to be okay, I'm stumped.....

swoope

iTrader: (5)

could be a plug wire or a fouled plug.. check the wires and plugs in the front rotor..

beers