Slamma

Hey guys,

I just got my first oil change @ 3500KM 'cuz I heard it's
a good idea to get the first one done quickly and the oil was a little darker than before....
I went to Scarb. Mazda, (bought @ Prima Mazda), and
when I picked up the car the work slip listed that they used "SNYNTH5W20".

I don't know much about cars but the manual says to not use
synth. oil. I asked the mech. manager about it and he wasn't sure what to say;
except that "the oil comes in bulk" and that he thought it was a "semi-synthetic".
In fact, I'm pretty sure the guys there didn't know that the manual said not to use
synthetic oil. I asked him what other Mazda's they use the same oil on and he said they use it on the MPV and Tribute also.

Am I being a baby here or did they use the wrong oil?
I heard that synthetic oil might leave residue or burn dirty in the rotary???
Also, the bottle I use to top up my oil is a regular 5W20 Castrol. Is
there any problem mixing the Castrol w/ the sythn. oil Scarb. Mazda used???? or
should I buy a bottle of synth. 5W20 to top up now????

Please advise!

herbert

I don't know the answer to your question. but I'm curious to see if anyone does. I just looked back at my 2 oil change invoices. I've got the same (SYNTH5W20) on my latest invoice from them (16000km servicing). My first servicing at 8000 kms had code 0000-23-5W20 listed on it. They also overfilled my oil both times...you might want to check that out. I'm not bad-mouthing them...I'm just going to have a little chat with them prior to my next servicing.

Gord96BRG

Oh, does it? Where? gimme a page number!

:D

I'm giving you a bit of a hard time, because the owner's manual does NOT, anywhere, say you should not use synthetic. What is specifies is 5W20 oil that meets API SL spec. If a synthetic meets API SL 5W20, then it meets the specifications, period.

There's lots of vague info around saying Mazda does not recommend synthetic - which is very different from saying you should NOT use it, or that it voids your warranty if you use synthetic. There's also lots of threads around here debating synthetic oil.

IMHO - the oil they used is perfectly fine, and preferable to ordinary mineral oil 5W20.

Regards,
Gordon

two rotors

The Mazda dealers where I have worked use Petro-Canada bulk oils and they are described as "semi-synthetic".The Mazda part nos for bottled oil are typically 0000-23-XXXLT
where XXX are numbers such as 102,103 etc.No idea who fills them.
Anyway for my RX8 I use only Castrol GTX.In this hot weather I am on 10W40.

Slamma

thanx for the feedback guys....

I'll read my manual a bit more carefully..... I was sure it said
to only use reg. 5w20 :o ....

again thanx for the quick responses and I'll try to read a little bit
more carefully!

evanerv

Always use non-synth oil. Since the Rotary engine will burn motor oil instead of just for lubercation like other cars do. But synthetic motor oils have molicules of same sizes, so unlike the natural mineral oil the synthetic oil wouldn't burn easy at all. So to your answer, it is always a very bad idea to use synthetic oil instead of non-synthetic mineral oil.

two rotors

Your manual does say to use only 5W20 mineral oils,but my objective is to protect my motor to the maximum practical level and at the same time ensure the maximum possible life of the catalytic converter.
The fact is that all rotary engines,whether NSU,Mazda,Suzuki,Curtis etc are hard on the lubricant because of the heat load/engine temperatures.I think 5W20 mineral oil is marginal for the task.

01Racing

I am the G.M. of Scarboro Mazda, and the oil put in your car IS NOT synthetic, unless you requested it and you would have paid a premium for synthetic. The writing on the invoice is our internal code for 5W20 oil. We apologize for any confusion and if you wish to speak to me, please call me directly at 416-752-0970
my name is Alan Balinsky

01Racing

And as a side note, in our ROTARY powered race car, we run nothing but synthetic oil, as do almost all high performance rotary racers!

zoom44

now that is sevice! Bravo to you Mr. Balinsky. we only wish more dealers were around here and as stand up as you seem to be.

Mitch Strickler

Now that you know you are on dinosaur juice, Slamma, you can read long, angry threads in which people will earnestly tell you that you are crazy to (1) change to synth (2) not change. Mazda has a funny position, seemingly leaning towards natural oil but never coming out with anything definite. As for overfilling, it seems to be a common dealer practice. I finally made a point of it with the service manager before an oil change, and they got it right.
Mitch

01Racing

Hi again! Okay, as for overfilling, im assuming that everyone knows the correct way to check oil , which is leeting the car sit overnight on a level surface, and checking it before the car is started. So when we do an oil change we will require you cars for an overnight stay! Okay, you know im kidding! When we check the oil level it is after the car is run for about 1 minute so the oil is circlulated through the engine. If it is overfilled, it couldnt be by more than 1/4 of a liter at most. It is not something to be concerned with. We at Scarboro Mazda have a fair bit of rotary experience (me included!) and I assure you that no damage is being done on oil changes!

Gord96BRG

Does it? WHERE? Give me a page number, please, so I can look it up. I want to see the words "only mineral oil" or text to the effect of "do not use synthetic"

(For your own benefit, please do try - although I'll tell you right now, your manual does NOT say what you claim.)

Regards,
Gordon

Gord96BRG

You're just making this up, aren't you? Read it on the internet somewhere? Your claim about combustion properties of synthetic oil are completely false. The flash points of synth oil are slightly higher than mineral oils, but in actual fact they burn just fine. In fact, they burn better than mineral oils, because they usually have less ash and wax content, so synthetics leave less sludge behind when they burn.

To confirm this, you can actually try your own oil combustion test to prove yourself wrong, or you can read actual oil analysis and tests that state real results, not internet speculation based on extremely poor chemistry knowledge...

Oh, and for what it's worth - there is no such thing as straight 5W20 mineral oil. The oil companies are unable to make a 5W20 that is pure mineral oil. To achieve the required properties for that specification, they have to use a significant proportion of synthetic oil. That's right, EVERY 5W20 oil on the market is at least a synthetic blend. Even oils like Castrol GTX 5W20 are synthetic blends.

Regards,
Gordon

guy321

YOu almost had me there.. I was thinking WTF is he smoking.. Then I read the second sentance .

staticlag

In the immortal words of South Park:

RabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRa bbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabb leRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabble RabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRa bbleRabble

Synthetic = da bomb (If your willing to pay for it)


RabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRa bbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabb leRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabble RabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRa bbleRabble

Go48

For the benefit of those who don't read the material that comes with the car:

two rotors

In my 2005 RX-8 Owner's Manual,pp 8-12 it says " Use SAE 5W20 engine oil".Same page it says"Use only oils "Certified for Gasoline Engines"by the API--" ie ILSAC GF-3(see maintenance manual).Now it is true that some synthetic oils meet ILSAC GF-3 requirements.

However there is a hand written Addendum on the page in my manual which states:" Use mineral based oil only.(See 1987 RX-7 Owners Manual pp 6-15 and 1993 RX-7 Owners Manual pp 9-2).(Courtesy Monty Python)
I will send you a copy if you wish!

With respect to your post with the lesson in Oil Chemistry,it is true that mineral based engine oils have non- mineral additives to provide improved performance,eg detergents,dispersants,viscosity modifiers etc.The point is a true synthetic oil has no mineral oil.
I would also like to point out that the properties of a mineral oil depend on the source of the base stock,processing method etc.Some very low ash oils are available for air cooled aviation engines as I recall.

Gord96BRG

That's NOT the owner's manual. That pamphlet wasn't delivered with any of the early 04 RX-8s either. Even further, there is no such thing as a fully mineral oil based 5W20. EVERY 5W20 oil on the market is at least a synthetic blend.

Regards,
Gordon

therm8

I recieved that pamphlet, the "quickstart guide," and it said the same thing. Picked my car up in Nov. 2003. Mazda will not recommend use of synthetic, because it was never tested. They will when prodded lean toward dino, but never come out and say it must be used. I've used 5w30 since my second oil change, simply for obtainability. Synthetics are great, but those who use them generally are the type of people who change the oil every 3k (unnecessary in most cars). Seems like a waste of money to me, so I stick with dino, and change every 3k.

staticlag

RabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabbleRabble

Reg

Interesting stuff. I've read in several places that synth oil does some monkey business to the rotor heads and shouldn't be used. This is the first place I've seem people advocating synthetic oil. Also, my 8 is brand new and has 5w30 oil in it. Why you guys got 5w20 in the US and us the UK have 5w30? is it a climate thing?

Go48

It's probably an emissions thing.

BTW, if you do a search in this forum you will find more postings from advocates and detractors of synthetic oils than you really care to read. It's one of those long-standing controversies that will never end. Kind of like, "should I power my PC down when I'm not using it, or should I leave it on 24/7". There is no definitive answer to this question (IMO), or the dino vs. synthetic oil use, because there are pros and cons to each approach. To each his/her own.

Nubo

The requirement in the engines I flew was "AD" (ashless dispersant) oil formulations. This has to do with the detergent additives. The detergents in AD oils were specifically designed not to leave residue. This was about 15 years ago.

Nubo

If I recall, the procedure in the owners' manual is to wait 5 minutes after shutdown. But I agree the stand-time isn't going to make too much of a difference. I think part of the problem is the dipstick calibration is non-linear. Halfway to the "low" mark is closer to 1/2 quart low when intuitively you'd think it was almost a quart. Conversely, a small overfill can appear "way over" the full mark when as you say it may be .25