jlwallnc

Hey guys,

I have a 2004 AT rx8 that has been having issues recently. In the past couple of weeks I've had very low idle (to the point where initial driving off from a stop in first gear would putter for 5 seconds at a very slow speed until it got to 4k+ RPM then it would quickly speed up, so my loss of power is at the initial 1-4k RPM mark).

No problem going any faster after I get out of first. No change using the pedal shifter/manumatic vs regular automatic driving.

I replaced my spark plugs ~6 months ago. Haven't replaced my coils or wires. Several days ago I was driving in the city (about 20 mph) and while slowing down to a stoplight my engine cut off (battery stayed on -- engine light was flashing). I stopped, put my hazzards on, and tried to start it > no go. Tried again 5 minutes later and I was able to go about 2 blocks before it shut off again.

At that point I got it towed. Since then I have checked the oil which is fine, cleaned the MAF sensor (it was dirty), and topped off my coolant (which was low but my temps looked OK while driving). Tried starting it again and it sounds like it's about to turn but it doesn't.

Here's the video:

Any thoughts?

Nedash

Do you have an aftermarket gauge or do you go by the factory one?
If the latter, you won't spot critical overheat until it's too late.

How many miles does your engine have on it?

jlwallnc

Factory gauge. ~90k miles.

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

So here are my thoughts. Loss of power in low rpms could be due to a malfunctioning SSV. The fact that you changed plugs and not coils make me think that it could also be your coils and wires. Now if you have never checked your CAT with your mileage I suspect it could be bad. But when I combine all your issues (loss of power on low rpms, drop of rpms, shutting off, and not starting back on) it makes me think it is a compression issue. Having said that I would start from a compression test.

jlwallnc

Thanks for responding. Regarding the SSV, I actually got a code for that several months back (completely forgot about it) > Took it to the dealership to check the code = MIL ON/DTC P2070 (SSV stuck OPEN) It went away several days after leaving the dealership (couldn't leave it overnight as I needed the car to drive to work the next morning).

Do you know how much it would cost to have the dealer clean the SSV? I would try seafoam (have a spare can) but of course I need the car running for that. Also would you know the cost of a compression test?

I will check my coils tomorrow morning. Thank you again for the reply.

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

Well compression test runs into the $100 to $150 area (these are some prices I have seen in this forum). Depending the dealer the cost for fixing the SSV problem varies. People have reported some insane prices (around $2000) because the dealer wanted to replace the whole intake manifold. I would suggest doing some diagnosing yourself. There is a process to test your SSV (look at the DIY section).

Further, there is a possibility that the SSV got unstuck especially if you have not seen the code since you took it to the dealership. There are several people including myself who have experienced an automatic fix of the SSV. In my case I got the P2070 code one morning with 12 degrees (so perhaps the cold temperature could have caused the issue). I redlined the car a bunch of times that day, cleared the code, and have not seen it again since then neither I have experienced any symptoms related to a stuck SSV (hopefully now it's working).

Do you currently have any codes?

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

If it isn't compression, it's coils. That sounds exactly like compression. As in it sounds exactly like what my engine sounded like when it crapped the bed.

I'd get the low idle, vibrating, bogging down from 1k - 4k etc but no misfires oddly.

Squirt a few CC's of 2 stroke oil or premix into your lower intake manifold via the two capped off ports and then try starting. If it works, your compression is probably very low.

I tried a new battery, new starter (won't help you stay running, but when it does stall out it will help you restart it), plugs, wires, coils, about 4 dealer de-carb's / sea-foaming and metering oil pump and it only marginally helped my issue.

I eventually replaced the engine.

At this point, do not pass go, get a compression test.

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

^Unfortunately I feel the same way. I think the engine has low compression.

jlwallnc

Update: replaced the coils and wires today, still would not start (i checked and rechecked the wire order so I installed them correctly). Towed it to the dealership to get diagnostics done and they will be calling me tomorrow.

Hopefully it's not something too bad. I will post what it ends up being so that others that have the same issue can read what it was.

Cliffjumper126

starter sounds extremely slow as well. New starter would make a difference. Stalling could have been because of ignition components, failing to start could be because of the starter...did you try gving it gas when it's almost starting? oh and btw, his chime sounds different than mine, did ATs have different chimes?

Bladecutter

That's because the engine was still flooded from you trying to get it to start, and failing, repeatedly.

BC.

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

^^^ +1. Dealer will probably de-flood, de-carb and try to sell you a new starter. Then in 10,000 miles when the new starter won't reliably hot-start the car, they'll try to sell you a new engine. And engine mounts.

jlwallnc

I did try giving it gas, also tried to deflood (I have successfully de-flooded twice before)

jlwallnc

They said they were working on it "all day" and suggested a new starter.
Quoted me $400-450 depending on the price of the starter. My diagnostic price of $115 can go towards the quote.

Said after the replacement if it still has issues will need a compression test.

What would you guys do?
I'm thinking about getting it towed back to my place, ordering a starter off of ebay, replacing the starter myself (checked DIY seems simple enough of a job). Only downside is a new starter off ebay will save me $200-ish but take around a week to get here.

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

I disagree with their sequence of repair.

Here, spend $450 on a starter and if that doesn't work, we'll sell you a $180 compression test. If you have low compression then we'll sell you a new Reman'd engine for $4000.

All a starter is going to do is get the car started but it isn't going to fix the stalling and stumbling and loss of power and crap idle.

I'd ask them to perform a compression test. If it's good, then throw some ebay $$ at a starter.

The bottom line is that even an original starter should start the car with a good battery... unless the compression is *****.

jlwallnc

I was able to get them to put in the starter on one condition -- if it is just the starter and it starts and runs fine, I'll pay for the part+install. If not, then I only owe the $115 diagnostic fee. It's worth the extra cost if it's only the starter, but from what you guys said that seems very slim

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

Just get the thing started and see if your installing new coils cured the stalling issue. If it didn't, then have the compression tested. A tired, old starter with a good battery shouldn't have any trouble starting an engine with good compression. Period.

Best of luck.

jlwallnc

Thanks appreciate the input

jlwallnc

Deflooded and was able to start with the new starter. Paid for a compression test which failed miserably. Needs an engine. I'm towing it back home. I can't say I'm surprised but this really sucks.

Karack

if they did the compression test shortly after deflooding it of course it will fail. if the car starts reliably now then drive the **** out of it and maybe have it tested again in a week or so.

sounds mainly like a stuck open SSV to me. last time i had a customer with a similar issue i just disconnected the SSV with it shut and capped the line, top end power decreased but it ran much better, he has yet to return so i don't know exactly what happened with it. strangely enough it was also an AT, i suspect the intakes on the AT models crap up much easier/quicker than 6 port MTs do. it would stall coming to lights and have difficulty restarting.

and in the video your car is cranking EXTREMELY slow, 1/4 what a good battery and starter should be doing.

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

Now that you know what you're up against, you should start saving up for a new engine (or car?). But in the mean time if that new starter starts it reliably hot and cold, and you can mitigate the stalling issue with the SSV "trick" above and some **** retentive-attention to maintenance detail, I'd say run the dang thing. Run the absolute bollocks out of it. Drive it like you stole it (within legal / safe limits). What's the worst that could happen?

Now that compression is ruled-in (what are your numbers?), there are ways to string it along as long as the numbers aren't too low.

Low compression engines within "reason" are just less tolerant to old plugs / coils / wires / crap gas, slow starters and old batteries but some (as long as the #'s aren't too low) are still quite usable. I know I'm going to get crap for that from the purists. Of course, if it's too far gone, then pull it and send it to RotaryResurrection for a rebuild.

Before I pulled mine, I was able to start and run it. Yeah I'd get a nasty vibration at stoplights and exceedingly long crank times when cold (no start when hot, but I'd just build in 30 extra minutes if I wanted to get fuel), but it never stalled. My numbers were in the 4's and 5's compression-wise. I might have had a high 3 in there too but I can't remember.

If you're really, really bored you can check out my post over in the Gulf regional forum. It's one way of going about solving your issue (BLUF: it involves doing an engine transplant).

Good luck, and don't get too disheartened. 90k is a lot of mileage out of an '04 4 port.

ShinkaEvo

iTrader: (3)

For 04 and 05, both AT and MT.
If you don't have oil catch can installed, your SSV will get stuck sooner or later.

If you ever install oil catch can, please don't reroute back to the intake, just put a breather on it.

jlwallnc

Thanks a lot for the response.
The engine is able to run but haven't taken it for a drive yet (I work long days so had to tow it from dealership to my house). I live downtown so if the car has a good chance of stalling in the middle of downtown traffic that will be a pain.

What the dealership said:
"Found low compression on front and rear rotors as follows:
R1@273RPM 640 650 650KPA
R2@274RPM 570 570 580KPA
mini 680

Recommend mazda reman engine, engine mounts, new starter"


Can anyone interpret these compression test results?

jlwallnc

Thanks for the response. I usually drive it like I stole it (and I love doing it of course). I watched a video on accessing the SSV looks like a ton of work. Would a decarb help at all? I have a spare can of seafoam.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Your starter is just fine, as a brand new starter is in the 280-300 rpm range.

Your compression is indeed too low, as noted by the dealer. New engine or engine rebuild time.