Raptor75

I was just thinking that with the x16 going to direct injection will the advantages of premix be lost. With direct injection you are now just injecting fuel at the optimal location for combustion, this in all likelihood will not promote good lubrication. The success of the 3rd oil injector my be vital for the x16.

What do you think?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

good point - I would think premixing would still help with lubrication just the same as it does now . The fuel is just coming in a little later with DI - it should still lubricate the combustion chamber .

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I dont think so.

Cuz no matter how advance fuel injecting technology becomes, the basic attribute of the engine will not change. Which means the seal still needs to lube.

Its just that it might be better to change the OMP into using premix only.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

depends on how much they inject.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Lemmmme give you the Answer

Repeat after me

E
P
A

W
I
L
L

S
C
R
E
W

I
T

U
P

So yes it will need premix.

Jax_RX8

Correct - the 3rd injector will allow for a better distribution of the oil, but the reality is that to meet exhaust emission standards, very little oil can be used and still meet them.

Additional premix will still be helpful for those that care about longevity.

rotarygod

I think that with the 3rd oil injector the need for premix is pretty much over and I'd still think so even if the engine didn't have direct injection. Keep in mind at this time the engine is only semi direct and still contains 2 injectors in the current primary location. This could change of course.

Raptor75

I still dont think the premix will be as effective here. In the current Engine the fuel/air mixture is carried along part of the combustion chamber before it is ignited. It has time to contact the engine surface to lubricate. With direct injection the fuel can be injected right were combustion will happen allowing less fuel mixture to contact the engine surface. End result is less lubrication.

As to the EPA issue Mazda my have to use technology similar to those in diesels to trap particulates (unburnt oil). Not sure how or if this would work but it seems a good place to start.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Lets just wait another 3-4 years then the answer will come !

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

WITF do you guys keep asking stupid questions like this. The d@mn engine isn't even out yet, so HITH would anybody be able to answer the (stupid) question.

robrecht

It's still a very interesting discussion imho.

Jax_RX8

That is not how the oil is distributed in the chamber from premix.

The atomized oil and fuel is mostly in the air, with just a little hitting the combustion chamber (and other) surfaces until the explosion of combustion - at that time all the oil particles, because they are heavier and do not burn as fast a fuel, are literally thrown to all the edges and cover everything until they get hot enough to eventually burn (which takes much longer, relatively speaking, than the fuel)- think of it as a splatter effect like you put a firecracker in the middle of a water balloon.

Thus, premixing will always put usable oil in the combustion chamber, independent of if it is direct injection or port injection.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

people will still be paranoid... don't worry

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The motor will not see the light of day so the discussion is moot.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

I'll remember this day.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

we will see this engine in the future. Till then, interesting conversation nothing more

robrecht

That is fascinating. Would that mean that 4-stroke oil from the OMP would lubricate better than 2-stroke oil since the former doesn't burn as well?

However, I know everyone prefers 2-stroke premix or from a Sohn adaptor. Is that merely because the unburnt 4-stroke is bad for the cat and emissions. I'm guessing there must be more to it than that.

robrecht

Why do you say that? Improved but still poor fuel economy will kill it, perhaps?

erx8s

I totally agree with Jeff anyway i am more interested in working out a method to pre mix some of my lubricant amongst those lovely ladies on his avatar

Cheers
Michael

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Why would you think there is even the possibility of the rotary living on?

Each year, the sales of the RX-8 are halved.
They don't even advertise the car any more, it is excluded from all of the dealer incentive plans, it is excluded from the dealer satisfaction surveys and most dealers don't even keep them in stock anymore.

The current model is a warranty nightmare, it doesn't conform to the EPA standard from 5 years ago and, by design, it can't possibly conform to the 2010 standard - direct injection or not.
Unless Mazda invents a way for the engine to run completely without injected oil, its a dead end.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

unless they make it for the JDM market only - That way I'll still be able to get one . Hey maybe I'll be able to get them for you guys - good little side earner for me

tajabaho1

the rotary engine is dead, leave it be

/end sarcasm

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

added to incentive / surveys again as of this last week.

I'm taking the wait and see approach on that one. Who knows, maybe they'll come up with something.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Why would they have made it if they aren't going to use it? Seems like that would be a LARGE waste of money.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

They didn't "make it". They prototyped it.
Really, its just a casting change. Its not like its a big deal when you operate your own foundry.
The Renesis is just a differently machined REW with "advances" that were experimented with 20 years ago when it comes down to it.
Rotary engines were designed and advanced on a shoe-string budget compared to the expenditures for the big manufacturers. They exist mostly because of the efforts of dedicated, enthusiastic and motivated individuals at Mazda.
All of those Samurai are gone now.

With the high BSFC, the terrible emissions, the stringent CAT life requirements and, frankly, the lukewarm reception of the car buying public for an under-powered coupe that sits at the bottom of its market, there really isn't any reason to make the 16X.
The only reason that the RX-8 still exists now is to amortize the tooling investment cost. Even the "update" was just meant to help keep the collision dollars in-house.

I'd love to be wrong, but between Kyoto and gas prices, there will be no market for the RX-8 or anything similar in 2 years.