SilverEIGHT

I recently had a very bad experience with a Mazda Service department. I will not get into that now but I'm sure at some point I will explain. The bottom line is my 114,000 mi. 8 has a dead engine due to the front bearing. I'm debating with myself whether I should put a reman, a quality rebuilt from a trusted engine builder or sell as is. My main question is what should I expect to get for the car with a dead motor? The car is in good shape otherwise. Not perfect as it is a 2005, aggressively driven on track but well maintained.

Reman: $2000 plus misc parts and installed with a group of friends.
Quality rebuilt: $6000-10,000
Sale as is: ?

The price to repair just does not make a lot of since unless you just love the car. I could purchase one already running for that cost. I'm not really interested in a reman unless it would be to just turn around and sale it right after install.

I appreciate your thoughts on what you would do and to help me make a decision. I'm sure if olddragger reads this post, he will interject quite a bit of engaging discussion as we have had quite a lengthy ongoing conversation.

BigMikeATL

Personally, I would initially value the car as if the engine were working and then subtract the worst-case cost for a replacement engine (parts and labor).

Remember that the odds of the guy selling the car in this condition are really low, so YOU have the negotiating power. Get yourself a bargain and then share some pics and video of the build process with us!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

BigMike, I think you mis-read. SilverEIGHT is the one with the blown motor, he doesn't have much negociating power with whatever buyer.

Silver, generally the trend has been in the ~$4,000 range for an RX-8 with a dead engine. Sometimes lower, sometimes a tad higher.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

Uh, SilverEight is the potential SELLER.

Running 100k mile 04/05s are craigslisting here around $8k. I know of one guy in the area who picked up a body-rough, but decent running 04 for $4500 though. Possibly the most cost effective solution for the OP is to find a junkyard motor from a lower mile car to swap in. I doubt if a blown-motor 8 can be sold for more than $4k and even that would take some luck.

SilverEIGHT

BigMike, actually, I appreciate that point of view also. Looking at it from a potential buyers side, he does have the negotiating power. If I do rebuild it, I will be sure to document it on here with stills and vids.

I still love the car and with a new engine, she would still be a great car. I guess the effort involved is my quandary. I don't think you can look at this as a financial decision, it has to be an emotional decision based on the love for the car itself. Knowing the value of the car, as stated is in the neighborhood of $3-$4K tops, I now know that part of the equation. If it is rebuilt as cheaply as possible and sold, it is good for making, let's say $7-8K. That may net me $4K. Financially speaking, to me, hardly worth the effort. I should just sell as is.

You have to love the car to reinvest more money than it is worth to make it right. Now, just how much do I love this car? I will have to think on this one some more.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

SIlvereight really got screwed by a Mazda dealership guys. This is the car that won the SE NASA TTD championship one year. The car wasnt abused doing it. His car still looks pretty good for its age .Its been driven fast but the chassis and drivetrain were not abused.
The engine doesnt have many miles on it ( its not original--it was a NEW engine from Japan) and i am sure there are a lot of good parts left. He did not blow a seal--to the best of my knowledge. He had a coolant plug that leaked and the Mazda dealership took the front cover off and didnt reinstall the front thrush bearing correctly--that ended up messing up his e shaft front bearing also--in the process.
The body/ interior is good, he has a new differential that is only 1-2 yrs old, clutch, trans, brakes/rotors etc are all in pretty good shape--no problems with them. He has a lighten flywheel on it also.
It will make great roller for someone, or a great car for someone once the engine is repaired.
The ga rx8 club guys have offered to swap his engine out--but since he is for sure selling --does it make sense to do all that work? I see Silvers point.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

i spent wayyyyyyyy more than what my fc is worth for to fix the engine and loads of other stuff

is it worth it? well, it taught me a lot of stuff about what can go wrong and how to fix it, and those knowlego the answer is yes for me.

other than that, i would call myself ******* crazy

in ur case, its probably better for u to just sell the car as is

SilverEIGHT

I knew you would sniff this thread out OD!

SilverEIGHT

lol... trust me, I know where you are coming from on that. I have spent a lot of money just maintaining mine to this point. This will be the 4th engine if I put one in.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

i hear ya od, its sad that most dealership these days are loaded with morons who can't fix **** and charge a load for it.

if i have the extra room i don't mind to get that as a parts car. yep, i don't have the room to store an extra car, not even about the money.

glws

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

damn, so u are on ur 3rd engine, did they install the engine wrong or ppf not align correctly or something?

SilverEIGHT

Well, it's a very long story, I wanted to address the issue of the OP first before I got into the details of what transpired at the Mazda "Service" center. I'm sufficiently comfortable with your post so I can move on to what happened now. I think this is one for the record books. Since it will take a while, it will be later this evening before I can get into the details. Trust me though, it is a crazy story. Can I discuss the name of the location in this thread or is that a no no? It's not very nice and I don't want to violate any posting rules.

JDOliver

iTrader: (1)

I just bought a fully loaded 2004 GT with Nav and the sport package for $3500 with a diagnosis of "blown" engine. I saw a post where someone was selling one for the same price two years ago. Let me spell out why I made the offer..... and why the person accepted a month later after realizing I was not trying to take them for a ride.

A 2004 RX-8 GT with 100,000 from an individual books for around $6500 and retail is $9,000 in running condition. There are some attempting to sell for more, but that is loan value and most people have to get a loan to buy a car. So, take your RX-8, split individual the and retail loan value at best. Then subtract $2500 for a dealer engine, and install cost. Is that your value? No, because the buyer has to have incentive to take your problem, haul it off, and get it fixed. For me that was $6500 - 2500 - 500(for my time).

The bigger problem for you is that all 2004 RX8s will be out of engine warranty by the end of the year, then the 2005s start to run out of warranty dependent of purchase date. "RX-8, blown engine" will be all over Craigslist before long driving the value down.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

as long as it's true story, u can post whatever u want.

i do that all the time, nothing to be afraid of.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

it might be worth more

SilverEIGHT

I just checked and my thread on garx8club.com and it's 29 pages long. This will take me a little while to write a synopsis.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Hey, I just log back onto GArx8 forum and found ur thread and I'm reading the 2nd post and I stopped

wait, front cover is the cause of leaks? coolant? wtf ? seriously? Front cover doesn't have ******* coolant going thru it ... ok back to reading.

JDOliver

iTrader: (1)

Unless you are just trying to get out from under the car, why not get a good reman from one of the good builders and install it yourself ? I'm not sure where you got that quality rebuild price unless your looking at race built engines.

(your website looks nice on the outside...)

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I'm up to page 15, yes I skipped a lot of those LSX swap bullshit (sorry, I hate swaps)

Anyway, wow, that master tech is so ******* noob, I bet his *** when he opened everything to fix nothing (how the F u gonna fix coolant leak when u are looking at the E-shaft and oil pump, jesus), and he didn't even bother to measure the end play at all.

1/2 the engine will be trash if the thrust plate gets stuck with the torrington bearing.

ok, continue from page 15...

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

wow, ok, I'm done

basically,

a ****-ed up dealership, which has a idiot "master tech", who can barely do oil changes, decided he is man enough to do the "front cover removal and remove the oil pump assembly to fix coolant leak" bullshit. and end up did not install the thrust plate and torrington bearing, and spacer correctly, result in totally f-ed engine.

then someone working at Mazda probably has no idea how this engine works, how does the front stack actually stack up, and just buy whatever bullshit came out of the "I have no clue but I'm a Master tech"'s mouth.

and deny your warranty claim.

Am I following ?

Mazda should really hire me to work in their tech line or some sort of manager on warranty approvals ... at least I can tell what is fucked up, what is pure bullshit, and what is just "**** happens" thing, so I will not **** any customers off (unless they deserves it)

if you are around NYC I can probably find u an engine cheap, I think I saw one at one junk yard. Not quite sure if it's a MSP. but you already decide to sell you car. *sigh*

if you live closer I freaking sell my new rotor to you at cost (cheaper than Mazda) and help u out with the rebuild, FREE(you pay parts lol) have all tools and equipment here and should be able to swap/drop in couple of days.

hate stealerships.

SilverEIGHT

You got it! You saved me a lot work and did a great job cutting out all the bullshit. I have not totally decided against anything yet. The car is sitting in my drive.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

its brotherhood like this that keeps me in the "game". Damn decent of you nycaps. It is also in part causing Silvereight to hesitant.
The engine oil had metal in it--but the engine of course has not been cracked. When this first happened, the engine still cranked fairly easily and would still drive--although it did have a dead skip.
There was NO end play in the e shaft at that time.
The engine build quoted is for a throughout build (with many internal mods) using all new parts.Thats the 6K one I think. I think the 10K Silver mentioned was with all labor as quoted by this dealership.
If he repaired the car he was going to trade it. I dont think he is interested in a retail sale.
He had just put a brand new set of re 11 tires on it ( those are already sold!)

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

thx od

people have no sense of responsibility these days, they just want to deny deny, and deny.

problem is when the engine is still in car, the torrington bearing/spacer/thrust plate will move out of it's position easily, it's the gravity.

but on the other hand it's also easy to keep it in position, just dump a grob of Vaseline and they will all stay in their place at assembly and ALWAYS use the REAL Vaseline, not some junk store brand petroleum jelly, they don't stick as good. oh also Vaseline works better if you put it in the fridge for an hour or 2 before you do the actual assembly.

some people just use engine oil but I tried it when I was rebuilding my FC engine for fun, it does not stick as good as cold Vaseline.

and some people use Assembly Lube ... Well that works too, but Vaseline is CHEAPER

Of course there is no end play, the spacer was on top of the torrington bearing the whole time. if the tech did check the end play he would have known something is wrong ... hell he should know even when he did not check end play ... when he put those bolts back to lock the stationary gear in place cuz it's gonna be tight as ****.

The engine will start even when the spacer is out of it's position, but we all know how that end up, it's always the same results.

I still don't understand the part that, how the F the "MASTER TECH" ... got his idea of "Yeah, it's leaking behind the front cover".

there is a freeze plug there but those factory installed Freeze plug RARELY fails. I mean it's so rare that even the engine blows up in pieces, the freeze plugs will stay at the same position.



Ahhh ! I was about to get a set of those for my up coming AutoX. Are they really as good as everything said? thinking about RE11 and Neova AD08.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

people like them down in the se. Different people get a lot of miles on them by report and after they are up to temps --they stick very well on the track. I dont think in the rain or snow anyone will want them.....
It s very clear to me too the mechanic goofed up. To his credit though--he told everyone that if he goofed up he wants to know as he doesnt know everything. It's the dealership thats the crook here.

SilverEIGHT

Hey guys, I have limited access and only on my iPhone or iPad. I hate typing very much with two finger input.

Let me clarify the pricing of the different builds:
1. $2,000 get's me a Mazda reman from a third party supplier and this is where my awesome frinds and rotory brotherhood come in to help me rebuild.
2. $6,000 - $10,000 is what I estimate on a primo rebuild with all new oil distribution, fuel pump, oil coolers, cooling modifications that will make this car as good as it can be. I think $7,000 is appropriate but I like to pad so I'm not suprised. When I say I want it right, I don't want any fkn around, I want it better than new.
3. NY... your generous offer is as Denny was saying, causing me to hesitate. Not that I'm going to have my car towed up to see you but simply the concern for fellow rotor enthusiest.

The "Master Tech", as I was told by the service desk person, did this bonehead attempt for the first time on my car. Nice to know, eh! He said He did it by the book from Mazda.

This whole thing was so fked up it makes me sick thinking about it. Many thought I should have taken them to court but the first thing the Service Manager said to me when I met him for the first time was: "Mr. Yaun, where did this issue first occure? He knew damn well where it happened and that was his out, and he knew it.

This is all out of context and is hard to follow if you have not read the thread:
Silver's Coolant Leak, Repar & Damage
... because it does not detail the extent of the coolant leak, the fact that I was preparing for a track event with the Mazda Service Center full knowledge and was headed to the track as soon as they handed me the keys. As I walked out the door, I was stopped and told, the work was under warranty. Drove to the track, next day after the warm-up lap, I gradudally worked up speed and on the 3rd lap, I opened it up after passing the start/finish line and it happend in between turn one and two which is a double apex. Yea, they knew I was going to the track and used it for an excuse. One I could not rebut.

MNA told them if the thrust bearing had dropped, it would never have made it off of their lot. My creditable sources tell me different and one of the two was Roger Mandeville. He was sent the photos of the damage. Their ain't no denying his creditentials. Guess the "Master Tech" knows more than Roger!

Typing this on an iPad usually results in strangly spelled words. Sorry if I made it hard to read.

oldragger, thanks for covering my back as I'm away from connectivity. No one knows this saga better.

Edit:
Denny: I still have the RE-11's. Haven't worked it out with Eric yet.
NY: Since I do not run TT anyomore, I decided to go from Hoosiers to a streatable track tire and have been told from reliable sources that the RE-11's were awesome tires. I have driven on a borrowed set before and they were great. The guy that loaned them to me was trying his best to wear them out so he could get new tires. I drove them on Road Atlanta and after I finished, L8APEX drove them another time and I think Jason drove them even a couple times more. He was pissed they would not wear out. I think they cycled before the tread was gone. I can say the few laps I did get on track with the new rubber was more than adiquit for streatable tires.