zoom44

they had to put in the emissions stuff - they have to warn you about anything that will kill your emissions equiptment.

truemagellen

:D

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Interesting point about leaded gas, (please pay attention Priscilla, I'm only typing this ONCE :D )

The "old" gas, with tetraethyl lead, was awful stuff - it was basically "anything light that would boil out of crude oil", with an average octane rating in the 70 range Then add some lead until the octane was 96, no problem, easy. You need 100 octane? Let me go get some more lead....... :D

The requirement for lead removal meant we (oil companies) had to use parts of the crude oil usually sold as chemical feedstocks, mostly compounds in the "aromatics" family - isomers, toluene, benzene, xylenes. Some isomers of xylene have a natural octane number over 160!

The interesting fact I was getting to, is that these great gasoline molecules react to lead additives even better than the crappy old gas did - if you mix good unleaded 93 with old leaded 93, you would get a higher octane blend than either ingredient. Depending on the components you could end up at 96!

....and just for Priscilla, more octane = less 'ping', in all cases .

S

Nubo

"Ghetto"?? Not sure what that means. It was used almost universally until the dangers became widely known and understood.

Nubo

Aviation gasoline. At least when I was flying about 15 years ago we used "100 LL" - 100 octane 'low-lead'. I believe there was also 130 octane available

Nubo

From a speculative standpoint, consider that rotaries came on the market when leaded gas was still the norm so I'd guess that lead isn't a killer for the rotary concept. Likely there is little real real data from RX8s running leaded gas so it would be difficult to say what effect it would have on that particular engine. Lead can contribute to deposits and ash formation in very high concentrations, and that would be a bad thing for rotaries from what I've read.

priscilla ls1

Gee.. where did I hear this one before?....hhmm

oohh yeah that is the same thing I wrote!! But after I made this statment I got this.

So you guys will just disagree with me no matter what I say. I thought this was a discussion forum, not a debate.

ooh ok that would explain your avatar. No just kidding but you need to also know that they took lead out of gas mostly to protect people living in a more populated metropolitan area's and Oklahoma is just not large enough to really have this problem.

You have to tune to your octane for max power,you just can't tune on pump gas and then put high octane in your car and expect more power.Usually you will make less power with high octane if your not tuned on that fuel.Tetraethyl lead had plenty of energy content(carbon & hydrogen count is like octane) so it slows burn without costing you power. But in an engine that doesn't need it it's only more soot, and not nice soot. Leaded fuel burns cooler and slower then unleaded fuel.
Don't forget your fuel filter, I am sure your filter might not like the added lead neither :D . But I could be wrong?
And if I was wrong about the lead I apologize, But from what I remember more lead more ping, and higher octane(or anit-knock rating) less ping. , right?


Yes, but they are piston driven and require this fuel and also lack o2 sensors and cats, but somtimes at the track alcohol.

zoom44

first off priscilla discussion sometimes includes debate. beleive it or not debate is a good thing. if nobody ever challenged anybody on what they said then this world would be a much different place and not one i would like to live in

second Could you have given that explanation that Stealth did or did you believe it because its just what you were told at some point? being told something and knowing it are 2 different things. Understand also that he said a GOOD unleaded depending on the other ene additives.


i disagree with alot of people. i will continue to do so when they post things i do not believe to beaccurate. hopefully this will furthur the educatiuon of all of us. what i hope is that they will do is explain why they said what they said so i can understand. the last few days we have just been in the same threads alot so i read more of your posts. its not picking on you in the least. in fact i have held back on a couple of occasions in hopes that i would not give that impression. but if i disagree with you give me me some more info so i can understand.

for instance i disagree with your explanation of the reason OK does have lead.i disagree with your stance that the regs are to protect population centers. as if the people there are more important i disagree with your assessment of the population size og OK. and i wonder if you understand that pollutants in the atmosphere tend to move about?


i dont understand what you are saying about the octane and tuning couldf you explain more what you are saying? what do you mean by "tuning" in this comment.

octane is solely a measure of resistance to predetonation or "ping" lead increases octane. more lead equals less ping.

where does he buy the leaded gas for the *****'s?

priscilla ls1

Look I am giving you strait facts on this one OK. They stopped using lead to protect the more populated areas, because of more cars in these areas and more people. Like if I was painting in a small room with no windows or vents I would sufficate. But in OK they don't have that problem because they are not very populated and less cars.

Tuning, you know like ECU's, and ingnition systems and what not,


Gas station, Not telling you where I live.

guy321

http://www.nrtco.net/~lead/leadedgas.htm

zoom44

priscilla im not the least bit interested in where you live. you have nothing to fear from me. im actually quite a nice fellow really. i guess we'll have to agree to disagree but i want to point out that much of the pollution in areas of the east coast comes from the midwest. so to cut pollution in the atmosphere in large east coast cities from leaded gas and other sources you would need to also cut the pollution generation in places like oklahoma.

yes yes i understand the word tuning but i mean what would you suggest as afar as ingniton advance or retard etc? what would you expect to have to do in regards to going with the higher octane?


guy thanks that explained alot and even included some info about the hypertension related problems.

priscilla ls1

Hey look you should not be telling me this tell it to the NRDC, the ones to first cut it came up with that reason. that the more populated areas were fealing the affect of lead poisoning more then uncle billy bob and his nine kids in a trailer park in arazona. So of course the number one reason to cut lead would be to help the people that were more effected, and that would be the highly populated areas.

zoom44

.

priscilla ls1

I am sorry I can't say I don't know the tuning for an RX8, I don't own one. But if in the owners manual it tells you to use premeum unleaded fuel, it mostly means that the car is already pretuned to use this fuel and this fuel only and if you wanted to go with a leaded fuel you would have to revamp your tuning even though the octane is higher that does not always mean your car will run better on this fuel . That is all I meant by that.

zoom44

much clearer thank you