TyrellCorpNexus8

So a bronze bushing or bushing in general is the "case" enclosing the bearings? Did I get that right?


Does anyone know if the RX8 has bronze or non-bronze bushings?

Sig-Sauer

NO bushings used on gears have no bearing at all they use tight tolerences and oil film for lubrication much like a crank or rod bearing. Generaly not used on a rotatong gear, more so on shift forks or sliding rods/shafts (at least on new cars). As i said the manual calls for ither so i dont think its that big of a deal. But if it starts shifting hard you know the cause. I would use a full syn 75-90 GL4 spec oil. 75-90 GL4 is very close to a 10w30 motor oil type product. Looking at their website and reading about their product the Synchromax seems like the most sutible product for a GL4 type manual trans application.

From their site

Synchromax® is fully compatible with all types of friction materials and offers excellent corrosion and oxidation protection without affecting the soft metals commonly found in manual transmission synchronizers.

Lets put it like this if you braught your car to my shop and i filled your trans with GL5 you would in a weeks time complain about the shifting. At that point you would most likley take it to a mazda dealer to get it looked at. The dealer would look at the car and ask who changed the trans oil. They would then tell you the we used the wrong oil and that the car needs a new trany. A argument would be shure to happen at this point because the manual says GL5 for the trany so it was the right oil. BUT the dealer is always right The dumbasses at Jiffylube dont know what they are doing. So basicaly we buy you a trany to the tune of several thousand dollars. And you would have a GREAT JiffyLube Horror story to tell all your friends. Get a sense i have been through this before ?????????

So basicaly the end result for me and 14 years later (and a fiew tranys).

If it says GL4 or GL5 USE GL4 and save the horror storys for somone else LOL.

I dont have any experience with that Max-Gear product so maby it works Great. But not in my trany LOL.


OOOOO the horror storys i could tell and what some people will do to get out of paying for their own lack of maitnence. It would simply amaze you.

TyrellCorpNexus8

You know what? I will probably return what I got and purchase the Red Line MT90 for trans. I'll keep the Royal Purple Max-Gear for the differential.

In another thread, forum member "Tony_Orlando" (he also posted on page 1 of this thread) stated he put Synchromax into his trans but did not respond to questioning by bureau13. I don't remember if it was also in that thread or another thread where someone had direct communication with a representative at Royal Purple and was told to NOT use Synchromax for the trans and instead use Max-Gear.

I'm certain bureau13 will be as interested in your post above as I am. Of course, another forum member, "Sea Ray," avoided the unanswered questions by going with Red Line!

Thanks for the technical info and your viewpoint on it, Sig-Sauer.

TyrellCorpNexus8

If I understand everything correctly, from what Sig-Sauer has written above, there are two issues with the manual transmission.


The first issue is that a conventional GL5 will eat up bronze bushings. Royal Purple Max-Gear is not a conventional GL5 as it meets performance requirements of GL4 and GL5, but no one online has reported direct or indirect experience on whether Max-Gear is less than ideal for bronze bushings. We don't know for sure but the RX8 probably doesn't have bronze bushings because the owner's manual explicitly states to use GL4 or GL5 for the trans.


The second issue is that typically a GL5 will cause the shifter and synchros to be notchy when the trans is cold. Again, Royal Purple Max-Gear is not a conventional GL5 as it meets performance requirements of GL4 and GL5. I wonder if forum members who have used Max-Gear in their trans can report if they are having a difference in shifting feel when cold versus when warmed-up.


As for me, in the end, the second issue stuck with me. With no expertise in this area, I really didn't want to risk even the slightest chance of notchy shifting when cold or accept the slightest chance of compromise. So, I went back to Napa Auto Parts and returned two quarts of Royal Purple Max-Gear and purchased two quarts of Red Line MT90, just to play it safe for the trans.

bureau13

Sig-Sauer, I'm not doubting what you say (I'd be crazy to do so with a handle like that :D ). However, based on your experience that the problems caused by a GL-5 oil in a manual tranny calling for GL-4 were pretty obvious...I'd have to say the Royal Purple MaxGear must have found a way to get around it. Far from causing any notchiness in the shifting, the performance of the oil in my FD's 5-speed was improved, and stayed that way for the two years I used that oil (I sold it after that and bought the 8).

TyrellCorpNexus8, I would go with whichever you feel comfortable with. From my experience and that of others, I think you'll be fine with the MaxGear, but if you want to be extra safe the Redline stuff is just as good.

jds

TORacing

how many miles in should you change your tranny oil, would a serrvice dept. change it during a normal oil change?

TyrellCorpNexus8

I've learned from the other gear oil threads and from my RX8 manual that the typical schedule is 30,000 or 60,000 miles depending on your driving style and environmental conditions.

My car is slightly over a year old and I have right around 30,000 miles. I'm going to change the gear oil next week.

Many of the other forum members have changed theirs anywhere from just after break-in to 3000 to 7000 miles. They did this for two reasons. First, the manual trans and differential gears sort of "machine" themselves down during break-in and leave metal shavings. Second, they want the added protection and performance from super high quality synthetics like Red Line and Royal Purple and others.

So, assuming you've completed break-in, it looks like you can't really change the gear oil too early.

I've heard elsewhere on this forum that dealership service departments will change the gear oil but they will charge you anywhere from $60 to $100 for the labor (they will try to rip you off, of course). They will also charge you for the oil, and what they have will NOT be the good stuff like Red Line and Royal Purple. However, people have purchased their own gear oil and handed it to the service people to put in.

davefzr

Dang.. I just got my car back after having them replace my trans/diff fluids with Red Line and all I can say is.. I cant believe it's not butter... haha..

It's really smooth now.

BaronVonBigmeat

I just changed the trans and diff fluids myself, it was fairly easy. Only hard part was getting all the tools together since I had nothing in the first place (ramps, metric sockets). Even with the cost of tools, I managed to save $50 ($100+ for something no more difficult than an oil change? No thanks.) The ease of putting the shifter into and out of gear was immediate ( I used RP ). It used to stick just a little too much. 1-2 is a tiny bit finicky still unless your clutch is totally mashed down (only sometimes). But apparently there's a fix for that now.

Just remember that the transmission fluid will shoot out a LOT farther than you think. Don't put your catch pan directly under it like you're changing your oil, or else you'll feel like you've just been in a Peter North movie.

TyrellCorpNexus8

I just did it today! Took me 3.5 hours. I wonder if anyone has taken longer than me. Holy cow. LOL. I'm sore and tired and I can't believe what I actually accomplished with the guidance of this forum. Unbelievable. I was able to put 2 whole quarts of Red Line MT90 in the trans. Is that too much? I put in about 1.5 quarts of Royal Purple Max Gear 75W90 for the differential.

Yesterday, I wasted 2 hours trying to jack my car up with a small cheapo jack that wouldn't raise the back end more than 12 inches when it was rated to go up to 13" (the front was on ramps I bought at Kragen Auto Parts for $16.99). Turned out I needed 14.5" because that's how high the ramps get the car. So this morning I returned the rock-bottom cheapo set at Pep Boys (jack, 2 jack stands, creeper, and 2 chocks for $29.99). I purchased their cheapest set of 2 jack stands for $12.99, then went to Auto Zone and purchased a bigger jack that can go up to 15.25" that came with a plastic carrying case for $29.99. Because I returned the creeper at Pep Boys, I went to Kragen again and purchased this pack of 4 cushiony mats that absorb oil and can be locked together like puzzle pieces ($7.99). I found the difficult-to-find 23 mm socket (regular non-deep socket) hexagonal (not 12 point) at an Auto Zone for only $2.99. The 24 mm socket I got at Pep Boys for $2.99. Also at Pep Boys: torque wrench with 1/2" connector for $19.99, 5" extension with 1/2" connector for $3.99, the cheapest plastic transmission funnel with 1.5' gooseneck for $1.99 (I didn't buy a pump because I decided to go with Gord's fish aquarium tubing method). Bought 4' of 1/2' diameter aquarium tubing for 69 cents per foot at fish pet shop.

Today, before getting started, I drove my car around the block to heat up the trans and differential oil so draining would be faster. CAUTION: DON'T DRIVE TOO LONG OR TOO FAR BECAUSE THE OIL COULD GET TOO HOT AND BURN YOU DURING DRAINING. As it turned out, the process of elevating my car took an entire hour (I know I know, I was moving like a snail), which gave the oil time to cool. In addition, despite the fact I drained the differential oil first, the transmission oil was definitely hotter (not too hot to burn me though but I was still surprised at the heat).

First, I drove front up the ramps. Then jacked each rear one at a time at the side rail, then inserted jack stand. Jack stand and jack get in each other's way so I went outside the marked rail "zone" but everything was fine and didn't bend the rail. I did not jack the differential pumpkin as it was too far down in the car and you can't pump the jack unless you first lift the car a little using the side rails and jack stands. Turns out the new bigger jack that was rated at 15.25" would only go up about 14", so I placed a 3/4' thick fiberboard underneath the jack. When the car was up on all fours, for a safety backup in case the car fell, I had the jack stand propped up at the driver-side rail sort of down the middle but a little closer to the rear tire. I didn't use the differential pumpkin for the safety because I felt the jack would get in my way when I was underneath the car.

Did differential first. Super clean. I taped a paper funnel (free at gas stations) around the exhaust pipe right in front of the drain hole. Didn't lose a single drop of oil. Elevated the oil pan with a pile of newspapers to prevent splashing. Paper funnel conveniently caught bolt and washer. Tried to do the same thing for trans but fluid drain flow was much stronger and knocked my damn paper funnel off! Quite a bit of splashing but oil pan caught most of it.

To get ready for the refilling process, I followed Gord's suggestion and had the oil containers sit in a pail with hot water to reduce viscosity so oil would flow through plastic funnel and aquarium tubing more quickly. Worked very well.

Questions:

1. That torque wrench that has the twist dial that you set in advance confused me. I wasn't sure when to stop turning the socket. Do you stop when you hear the first click? Why didn't it continue to click-and-give when I reached the desired torque? Why does it only click once? Do I have a faulty torque wrench?

2. Are we supposed to premeasure 1.8 and 1.4 quarts for the trans and differential and just use exactly that amount? I put additional oil down the tubing, then let the FILL hole slowly drain the excess out into the oil pan. Even subtracting out the overflow, I got in AT LEAST 2 full quarts into the trans. Was that too much? Could this be why I have notchy shifting. The shifting was much better before the change. I drove for only 15 minutes so far. Please tell me it will get smoother over time.

TyrellCorpNexus8

Damn it, Dave, is it really THAT smooth? Was it smooth immediately after getting your car back? Mine is notchy but I've only driven it for 15 min.

TyrellCorpNexus8

Awesome. I hope I don't regret going with Red Line MT90 for the trans instead of Royal Purple. If the notchy shifting doesn't disappear, I will follow StealthTL by draining out 1 quart of MT90 and refilling with 1 quart of MTL.

Oh no, just had a thought. How do you drain just 1 quart? LOL. Sounds like i'd have to completely drain! I guess I could drain and then reuse 1 quart. Hope it doesn't come down to this.

Gomez

Okay, I'll answer the first question first. I'm not too sure about your torque wrench, but I wouldn't worry.....these filler plugs only need nipping up, you would have noticed they weren't that tight when you undid them. "Standard" spanner tight is fine.

Two quarts is normal, mine took the same without dripping out, and I had the car level. I also used Red Line for the trans and diff, I didn't notice much (if any) difference at all in the shifting. Some guys must have ordinary boxes to start with, I reckon. Either that, or they've convinced themselves they feel a difference.

Gomez.

Gomez

Easy, undo the drain plug, but hold it against the transmission drain hole and allow the oil to drain slowly into your one quart measuring jug you stole from the kitchen. Do this when the oil is cold! And when the wife is out with the girls.....

Gomez.

TyrellCorpNexus8

Hey you are so right. I should have thought of that. No wife but gf complains like hell that I focus too much on the car, which is completely untrue.

davefzr

Yeah it's really smooth now.. I love it.

Everytime I drove my car before it would just cry out to me on every gear change to change the fluids. It was notchy as hell....

It's a complete difference in feel.

TyrellCorpNexus8

Ok, I change my mind. Last night, I had only driven the car for 15 min for a total of about 7 miles. Today, I drove about 75 miles and even early on the gearbox really loosened up. Already feels about the same as before (it was pretty slick before). Now, there is less of a "loose" feeling slotting into the next gear up, more direct engagement that seems to take just slightly more force but is more "consistent" in feel. Before, every now and then, sometimes would slightly catch before breaking free and into the next gear.

TyrellCorpNexus8

Red Line MT90 in trans, ~150 miles so far. Last 3 nights or so in the Los Angeles area has been between 49 and 53 degrees F. Sticky shifter until car warmed up for about 5 minutes. Will continue to update.

davefzr

One other added benefit of changing these oils is that my clutch "chadder" is almost completely gone now. As you slip the clutch in first gear it would chadder like hell trying to get into gear.. thats almost completely gone now... great benefit.

TyrellCorpNexus8

Hmmm, I never had that before and I still don't have it now.

Rotary Titus

I tried to get the tech at my dealer to put in the syncromax fluid for me but he told me later that it was too thin (he took at look and shook the bottle) to be used in the transmission and would void my warrenty if I did it. He says you would hardly notice any difference on street driving with a thinner fluid (less power loss). So now I'm left with 2 bottles of syncromax. I put in maxgear fluid the next service though. But yea the difference from stock fluid to royal purple was like night and day.

davefzr

I have an upgraded clutch.. It became apparent that with this the chadder increased.... but it's almost completely gone now like I said..

TyrellCorpNexus8

But we've discused Synchromax in 2 other gear oil threads as well as this one. One thread even had a guy from Royal Purple state in an email to use Max Gear and not Synchromax. Synchromax is supposed to be for manual transmissions that require automatic fluid.


But since you're in Canada, I'd like to ask you if the shifting is notchy in the mornings before your car is warmed up? I guess a better way to compare is: Do you notice a difference between cold and warm in the shifting with Royal Purple?

Rotary Titus

Ok with the stock fluid the shifting was notchy as hell and REALLY hard to get into first if you're moving (even if rolling like 3 or 4kph). After it warms up it gets a little better.
With RP I can get into first while rolling and the gears snicks into the gates which is really nice. But it also improves when it gets warmed up (not that it's bad when it's cold either though with the RP)

TyrellCorpNexus8

That's exactly the information I'm looking for. Thanks, RT.