Skipping 5th Gear
#26
Originally Posted by Rotario
You're obviously free to believe whatever you wish, but in this case, what you believe is wrong. Not sure how else I can say that without offending your delicate sensitivities.
Bill
Bill
For your edification, since you admitted that you were unable to word your post better, a more reasonable response would have been, "Oops; I'm sorry for having misread your post. Nevertheless, I still do not agree that skip-shifting is hard on a transmission, and I will continue to skip-shift when I drive."
Merely telling me that I'm wrong doesn't bother me at all. Your assertion that I'm wrong proves nothing, of course. I would be quite happy to be proven wrong by someone who can give an understandable, technical explanation as to why the sychros do not experience extra wear from skip-shifitng, but a naked assertion, by one who has shown questionable reading comprehension skills, carries no weight whatsoever. Absent such an explanation, I will continue to shift in what I consider to be a safe way, just as you will continue to shift in what you consider to be a perfectly safe way.
#27
Originally Posted by 124Spider
What "offended" my "delicate sensitivities" was your misreading my post, and then bashing me for your mistake. That's pretty stupid by any measure, and is not improved by this snotty post.
For your edification, since you admitted that you were unable to word your post better, a more reasonable response would have been, "Oops; I'm sorry for having misread your post. Nevertheless, I still do not agree that skip-shifting is hard on a transmission, and I will continue to skip-shift when I drive."
Merely telling me that I'm wrong doesn't bother me at all. Your assertion that I'm wrong proves nothing, of course. I would be quite happy to be proven wrong by someone who can give an understandable, technical explanation as to why the sychros do not experience extra wear from skip-shifitng, but a naked assertion, by one who has shown questionable reading comprehension skills, carries no weight whatsoever. Absent such an explanation, I will continue to shift in what I consider to be a safe way, just as you will continue to shift in what you consider to be a perfectly safe way.
For your edification, since you admitted that you were unable to word your post better, a more reasonable response would have been, "Oops; I'm sorry for having misread your post. Nevertheless, I still do not agree that skip-shifting is hard on a transmission, and I will continue to skip-shift when I drive."
Merely telling me that I'm wrong doesn't bother me at all. Your assertion that I'm wrong proves nothing, of course. I would be quite happy to be proven wrong by someone who can give an understandable, technical explanation as to why the sychros do not experience extra wear from skip-shifitng, but a naked assertion, by one who has shown questionable reading comprehension skills, carries no weight whatsoever. Absent such an explanation, I will continue to shift in what I consider to be a safe way, just as you will continue to shift in what you consider to be a perfectly safe way.
#34
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Originally Posted by Rotary Rasp
um, ok it appears that i dont know how to do a poll. will someone tell me how?
#35
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since downshifting one gear at a time is important on the track (for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to lessen the chance of over-revving the engine on downshift, when driving at close to redline and braking into a sharp turn)
#38
Originally Posted by rx8 - smooth!
Yeah sure, With comments like that you have obviously done a lot of driving on at track. NOT!!!!!!!
Why the savage attacks, anyway? All I did was give the original poster my view, as he originally asked, and you guys keep crawling out from under the rocks and attacking? Awfully strange behavior, which does nothing to increase your credibility here or in any other forum.
#39
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Downshifting is the hardest time on the syncros. During a upshift the next gear, if one is skipped or not, the clutch disc and input shaft must slow down and natural friction helps the syncros do that. The synros have to do less if you take a little longer during the shift. So slaming the shifter for fast shifts is hard on the syncros. But during a down shift the clutch disc and input must be speeded up to match the higher speed of the lower gear. Again this is increased by slamming the shifter and a reason to toe heal abd double clutch to spin up the clutch disc. The speed difference is also important as then the syncros need to do more work. So a upshift from 2nd to 6th at say 35~40 mph, with a little hesitation during the shift is not much a problem. Also when downshifting from 6th to 3rd, to pass, also at 35mph is not much a problem as 35 mph is probably only 4K rpm in 3rd (OK someone can check their charts or calculators as this is just a guess). But a racing downshift only, one gear, when already at ~6K+ rpm will be a lot of work for the syncros. Especially if you downshift too much. If you want use the gear ratio charts and calculate the change in RPM for each shift as the change is what is important.
The change in RPM and time determine the work required of the syncros.
I all the time shift 1,2,4,6.
The change in RPM and time determine the work required of the syncros.
I all the time shift 1,2,4,6.
#40
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As I said to the other folks who so pleasantly expressed their disagreement with me , you are certainly free to drive your car as you see fit. I was taught to downshift one gear at a time at the track (yeah, I've actually had instructors; what a concept), and every track video I've seen shows the driver downshifting one gear at a time. I don't mind at all if you think I'm wrong, just as I don't mind at all when you over-rev your engine.
I fail to see how using 3rd gear in this example which is something I do on the track in the real world is anything other than an additional risk of losing control.
By the way I have also had instructors with me in the car on the track. They certainly didn't have an issue with this technique. I happened to get the fastest times of 13 RX-8s on that same day the instructors were there.
The only way you can over rev by skipping a gear is if you do not have the car down to the appropriate speed for the gear you are selecting. You can just as easily over rev the vehicle by going straight into 3rd from 4th if you haven't slowed the vehicle.
I am not trying to attack anyone but if people here express opinions which I think are wrong I have a right to disagree and express my own opinion.
Peace Brothers
Last edited by rx8 - smooth!; 02-21-2005 at 04:28 PM.
#41
Originally Posted by rx8 - smooth!
OK, You are on the track on a straight which is 4th gear. The next corner you are faced with is a hairpin which requires that after a big brake the next gear the car will need to use to drive it is 2nd gear. Whilst the braking process is occuring there is no need to use 3rd gear. In fact engaging 3rd gear during this process simply risks locking up the rear of the car resulting in a spin. At the end of the braking period the car needs to be eased into 2nd (otherwise the car will spin) Once this process has happened the power can be put on to start the vehicle around the hairpin.
I fail to see how using 3rd gear in this example which is something I do on the track in the real world is anything other than an additional risk of losing control.
I fail to see how using 3rd gear in this example which is something I do on the track in the real world is anything other than an additional risk of losing control.
Originally Posted by rx8 - smooth!
By the way I have also had instructors with me in the car on the track. They certainly didn't have an issue with this technique. I happened to get the fastest times of 13 RX-8s on that same day the instructors were there.
Originally Posted by rx8 - smooth!
The only way you can over rev by skipping a gear is if you do not have the car down to the appropriate speed for the gear you are selecting. You can just as easily over rev the vehicle by going straight into 3rd from 4th if you haven't slowed the vehicle.
Originally Posted by rx8 -smooth!
I am not trying to attack anyone but if people here express opinions which I think are wrong I have a right to disagree and express my own opinion.
Originally Posted by rx8 - smmoth!
Peace Brothers
#43
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BTW, why would locking the real wheels, when going forward in a straight line, cause a spin? It certainly would cause a loss of control, but not a spin. A FWD car would be different, but we are talking RWD cars
If you heel/toe properly, there is no risk of locking the rear wheels or of upsetting the balance.
It is a matter of fact that real racing gear boxes are sequential; I wonder why?
#44
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Originally Posted by 124Spider
Originally Posted by Nubo
Think of it this way -- a standard car tranny used to have 3 forward gears. So going from 4th to 6th really isn't "skipping" anything at all.
You're joking, right?
Originally Posted by Nubo
Conversely, if the car had a 22-speed tranny would you feel obligated to visit each gear? :P
Depends on how the transmission is designed.
Why the flaming? If you are convinced that skip-shifting causes no damage, go ahead. I'm not convinced, so I won't.
Conversely, if the car had a 22-speed tranny would you feel obligated to visit each gear? :P
Depends on how the transmission is designed.
Why the flaming? If you are convinced that skip-shifting causes no damage, go ahead. I'm not convinced, so I won't.
#45
Originally Posted by Nubo
Perfectly normal.
Fifth gear on the RX-8 only comes into its own on a long stretch of 45-50 mph or on a freeway pulling up a long grade. On 35 mph roads (about town), you don't get up to 5th. On freeway it is just as you say; accelerate to speed and then put it into 6th gear. This usually means skipping 5th. I'll occasionally drop to 5th for passing but sometimes 4th. So I'm also one of those folks who doesn't use 5th gear much. Out of the 5000 miles I have so far, I'd be surprised if any more than 20 of them were in fifth gear.
Fifth gear on the RX-8 only comes into its own on a long stretch of 45-50 mph or on a freeway pulling up a long grade. On 35 mph roads (about town), you don't get up to 5th. On freeway it is just as you say; accelerate to speed and then put it into 6th gear. This usually means skipping 5th. I'll occasionally drop to 5th for passing but sometimes 4th. So I'm also one of those folks who doesn't use 5th gear much. Out of the 5000 miles I have so far, I'd be surprised if any more than 20 of them were in fifth gear.
unless you're trying to drive fast; then you'd be in 2nd at 45-50mph and accelerating hard
or if the road is curvy, you might be in 3rd so you can accelerate out of the curves without going totally ***** out (so as to stay on the road)
#46
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The old VW bugs had red hash marks on the speedometer telling when to shift. I think that the 4th gear mark was at about 23 mph. Just try it. 4th gear at 23 and it would take the next half hour to get to 55.
In the 8 you better be running 93 octane if you are going to be in 6th at 42. If you run 87 or even 89 it's better to rev it higher.
actually, according to the owners' manual, a 35mph road is the perfect time to be in 5th gear. it says the minimum speed to shift into 5th is 35mph, and 42mph for 6th (for best gas mileage). so on your long stretch of 45-50mph road, you should be in 6th.
#47
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Come on, guys!! The reason why proper cars have tachometers is to enable drivers to drive them properly. It's the rev band in which the engine is operating that determines how efficiently it's doing its job -- not what gear you are using. Drive on the tacho and you'll get the best performance/economy (whichever is your priority) that your car can give you.
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