serious brake/steering problem
09-11-2003, 05:56 PM
#26
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Originally posted by OverLOAD
Zoom44:
The best recommendation is to keep a good solid 10 - 2 grip on the wheel. I don't like the feeling either, but the only way I know to eliminate that is with little wheels, and we don't want that..
OverLOAD
Zoom44:
The best recommendation is to keep a good solid 10 - 2 grip on the wheel. I don't like the feeling either, but the only way I know to eliminate that is with little wheels, and we don't want that..
OverLOAD
09-11-2003, 06:10 PM
#27
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Steering update: I drove wiyh the salesman who agreed something is definitely wrong. Suggested taking the service guy for a drive (svc dept closed). I have found at low speed coming to a halt at a light, I can control the pull of the wheel by holding it firmly and it actually seems acceptable. If I let go of the wheel the car veers to either the right or left depending of the road. The same test in my X5 yields no aberrations in the steering. Moreover, I continued to pump the brakes which increased the turn of the wheel a full 3/4 turn! That's when my salesman said "something is wrong". At freeway speed, no matter how firmly I grip the wheel, it darts left in the uneven left turn lane requiring steering corection. ?DSC problem vs electric steering. I thought DSC was supposed to REDUCE OVERSTEER not jerk your car into the next lane. hmmmm?
VELOCITY RED,R/B 6SPD GT. OWNER SINCE 8/11 521 MILES
VELOCITY RED,R/B 6SPD GT. OWNER SINCE 8/11 521 MILES
Last edited by Mark; 09-11-2003 at 06:14 PM.
09-11-2003, 06:17 PM
#28
Prodigal Wankler
The symptoms you describe sound to me like your front end is toeing out. Just a thought, but have you been banging over any kerbs lately? The first thing I'd check would be the alignment.
09-11-2003, 09:54 PM
#29
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I'll have the alignment checked also -good suggestion. I've been granny driving, only a pothole or two no curbs or Armco, yet to hit 8000rpm, oh but wait until tomorrow I should be at the magic 600 miles.
09-12-2003, 07:10 PM
#30
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Well guys, I crossed 8500rom today and it was spectacular. I easily heard the beep others have complained about not hearing on other threads. When I drive fast, I turn the radio off and the Valentine one on max volume. Now the steering. No change it the veering on irregular pavement when braking. I have noticed a weird undulation in the wheel at times on smooth pavement while driving. Less so while going fast (go faster a solution? )
Velocity red, R/B,GT 6SPD,6DISC
And the watchman told, for the driving is like the driving of Jehu son of Nimshi for he driveth furously. II Kings 9:20
Velocity red, R/B,GT 6SPD,6DISC
And the watchman told, for the driving is like the driving of Jehu son of Nimshi for he driveth furously. II Kings 9:20
09-13-2003, 12:25 AM
#31
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Originally posted by Mark
i don't think it will be a recall but it should make service bulletin status.
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Perhaps.
Audi had to recall ALL TTs because of high speed oversteer due to rear lift. That weird rear trunk slope. Notice ALL TTs have a rear spoiler, one of the few that actually reduces lift. Several crashes occured on the Autobahn because of this lack of downforce. I certainly hope no crashes occur to force a recall for the 8. If the problem is only a few cars then a quiet recall (TSB) would indeed happen.
i don't think it will be a recall but it should make service bulletin status.
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Perhaps.
Audi had to recall ALL TTs because of high speed oversteer due to rear lift. That weird rear trunk slope. Notice ALL TTs have a rear spoiler, one of the few that actually reduces lift. Several crashes occured on the Autobahn because of this lack of downforce. I certainly hope no crashes occur to force a recall for the 8. If the problem is only a few cars then a quiet recall (TSB) would indeed happen.
Audi recalled all TT's and added the spoiler after one guy, travelling around 130mph, in the rain, lost control and crashed, resulting in death.
Testing was done and published by Audi stating that there was 148lbs of lift at the rear at high speeds, and they added the spoiler.
Spoilers do not start to do anything on cars until at least 100mph, unless they are ridiculously huge things, like on those short track cars on dirt. And those are the almost the size of a sheet of plywood!
My RX-8 "hunts" a bit at the nose at around 165kmh.
A chin spoiler would likely diminish this..
See:
The actual dealer service bulletin:
http://steve-hall.com/audi-tsb/circ/KX_Cir_CAN.pdf
Press and media reports:
http://www.accidentreconstruction.co...9/102899a.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=3523
http://www.autointell-news.com/news-...y-25-00-p8.htm
09-13-2003, 01:53 PM
#32
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I remember reading in either Autoweek or Automotive News (industry trade journal) that there were SEVERAL high speed accidents due to rear lift in the TT, not just one idiot driving fast in the rain. If any exaggeration occured, the sources are respected journals as mentioned above and the Car and Driver article you were so kind enough to link in your reply. My 8 tracks as if on rails, except as mentioned when braking on irregular pavement. Check engine light came and went twice yesterday. I am beginning to worry a bit.
09-13-2003, 07:46 PM
#33
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Originally posted by Mark
Steering update: I drove wiyh the salesman who agreed something is definitely wrong. Suggested taking the service guy for a drive (svc dept closed). I have found at low speed coming to a halt at a light, I can control the pull of the wheel by holding it firmly and it actually seems acceptable. If I let go of the wheel the car veers to either the right or left depending of the road. The same test in my X5 yields no aberrations in the steering. Moreover, I continued to pump the brakes which increased the turn of the wheel a full 3/4 turn! That's when my salesman said "something is wrong". At freeway speed, no matter how firmly I grip the wheel, it darts left in the uneven left turn lane requiring steering corection. ?DSC problem vs electric steering. I thought DSC was supposed to REDUCE OVERSTEER not jerk your car into the next lane. hmmmm?
VELOCITY RED,R/B 6SPD GT. OWNER SINCE 8/11 521 MILES
Steering update: I drove wiyh the salesman who agreed something is definitely wrong. Suggested taking the service guy for a drive (svc dept closed). I have found at low speed coming to a halt at a light, I can control the pull of the wheel by holding it firmly and it actually seems acceptable. If I let go of the wheel the car veers to either the right or left depending of the road. The same test in my X5 yields no aberrations in the steering. Moreover, I continued to pump the brakes which increased the turn of the wheel a full 3/4 turn! That's when my salesman said "something is wrong". At freeway speed, no matter how firmly I grip the wheel, it darts left in the uneven left turn lane requiring steering corection. ?DSC problem vs electric steering. I thought DSC was supposed to REDUCE OVERSTEER not jerk your car into the next lane. hmmmm?
VELOCITY RED,R/B 6SPD GT. OWNER SINCE 8/11 521 MILES
09-14-2003, 09:29 AM
#34
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Considering that you aren't supposed to pump the brakes with ABS, is it possible that you are causing the problem by pumping?
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The only pumping I do is for test purposes. The pumping I describe is when the car is FULLY STOPPED and the wheel continues to turn in the same direction under non pumping braking. This should NEVER happen, not ever in over thirty cars I have owned (even with bad calipers). The defect in braking has been demonstrated to my salesman who agrees something is wrong although I fear the service dept may say it is something I'm doing or "it's the pavement". I'm taking them for a drive this week. We'll see.
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The only pumping I do is for test purposes. The pumping I describe is when the car is FULLY STOPPED and the wheel continues to turn in the same direction under non pumping braking. This should NEVER happen, not ever in over thirty cars I have owned (even with bad calipers). The defect in braking has been demonstrated to my salesman who agrees something is wrong although I fear the service dept may say it is something I'm doing or "it's the pavement". I'm taking them for a drive this week. We'll see.
09-14-2003, 08:12 PM
#35
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I don't know if this has anything to do with it but I was looking at various sections of the workshop manual the other day and it mentioned that under certain conditions you may need to re-set the steering centerline recognition. An example given was if the negative battery cable was disconnected. It mentioned that the DSC could malfunction otherwise( potentially causing loss of control)
09-16-2003, 04:51 PM
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The low speed pulling just before you stop is normal, I have it, and have had it on the other sports cars I've owned... it is driven by different grip form each of the front wheels.
The high speed issue sounds definitely like a problem.
The high speed issue sounds definitely like a problem.
09-16-2003, 06:15 PM
#38
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Originally posted by CERAMICSEAL
I don't know if this has anything to do with it but I was looking at various sections of the workshop manual the other day and it mentioned that under certain conditions you may need to re-set the steering centerline recognition. An example given was if the negative battery cable was disconnected. It mentioned that the DSC could malfunction otherwise( potentially causing loss of control)
I don't know if this has anything to do with it but I was looking at various sections of the workshop manual the other day and it mentioned that under certain conditions you may need to re-set the steering centerline recognition. An example given was if the negative battery cable was disconnected. It mentioned that the DSC could malfunction otherwise( potentially causing loss of control)
Disconnecting the battery causes the DSC indicator light to become inoperable. (At this point, the DSC OFF indicator light flashes and the TCS/DSC indicator light is illuminated.)
To restore the DSC to an operable condition, perform the following procedures:
1. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
2. Turn the steering wheel completely to the right and then completely to the left.
3. Verify that the DSC OFF indicator light goes out.
4. Turn the ignition switch off and then turn it to the ON position again.
5. Verify that the TCS/DSC indicator light does out.
If the TCS/DSC or DSC OFF indicator lights do not go out after turning the ignition switch to the ON position, consult your Mazda dealer.
To restore the DSC to an operable condition, perform the following procedures:
1. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
2. Turn the steering wheel completely to the right and then completely to the left.
3. Verify that the DSC OFF indicator light goes out.
4. Turn the ignition switch off and then turn it to the ON position again.
5. Verify that the TCS/DSC indicator light does out.
If the TCS/DSC or DSC OFF indicator lights do not go out after turning the ignition switch to the ON position, consult your Mazda dealer.
09-17-2003, 02:52 PM
#39
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I am going to try this, I have not done any mods to discinnect the battery, however I had the dealer install a factory in dash 6 disc unit which could be the culprit. I have turned the dsc off with the button and it seems to turn on ok based on the dash lights.Thanks for the input.
09-18-2003, 12:25 AM
#40
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I disconnected my battery today, and after re-attaching powr had the same DSC flight flashing as described.
After following the calibration procedure as described above, and in the manual, the light went off and DSC returned to normal state.
Before and after I detect no symptoms like you describe.
I suspect that if it IS a DSC problem, there may be a fault in the DSC or perhaps in one of the wheel sensors.
After following the calibration procedure as described above, and in the manual, the light went off and DSC returned to normal state.
Before and after I detect no symptoms like you describe.
I suspect that if it IS a DSC problem, there may be a fault in the DSC or perhaps in one of the wheel sensors.
09-19-2003, 06:35 PM
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Low profile tires are very sensitive to road change. The sidewalls do not flex much and will pull hard into pavement groves. You should ask the A/T RX-8 drivers W/16" wheels if they have any steering problems. I know the pull on my 8 is about the same as my FD w/ 18" wheels and low profile tires. However, you guys that think it is extreme should have it checked out.
09-20-2003, 02:18 AM
#42
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What happened, did your problem go away when you followed the steps above or do you still have it? I haven't experienced anything like what was described but it's my wife's daily driver and now you've got me thinking about freeway chutes and stuff. I've only experienced perfect handling on the freeway and the backroads. Hope you find your problem and get it fixed. Let us know.
09-22-2003, 10:58 PM
#43
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Took the service guy for a ride , Normal behavior for the low profile tires! I don't like that answer. I drove a buddy's Z4 and my brothers Vette which did not demonstrate any steering shenanigins. My 8 only developed this after about 350 miles. I am going to test drive another 8 on the exact road where my wheel pulls and see if it acts the same. Of note, I drove the turn bay from the freeway again at 50mph holding the wheel tight and felt a slight tug toward the crown/irregular pavement but no darting as before. I then turned around at the Wendy's and re ran the same road at the same speed lightly holding the wheel and voila! the front end darted to the left. Perhaps this is normal, if so you better make dang sure you keep a firm grip on the wheel. Still does not explain why the wheel continues to pull while FULLY STOPPED if I pump the brake pedal. I have NEVER seen this in over thirty cars owned and hundreds driven. Sadly, I am planning to return this great car to Mazda and likely buy again in about a year if all the bugs are worked out. Oil light came on and went off , Level still above the mark from day one. This clinched the decision for me. My last drive will be back to the dealer. Hope to rejoin you guys as an owner in in late 04.
09-23-2003, 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by Mark
Took the service guy for a ride , Normal behavior for the low profile tires! I don't like that answer. I drove a buddy's Z4 and my brothers Vette which did not demonstrate any steering shenanigins. My 8 only developed this after about 350 miles. I am going to test drive another 8 on the exact road where my wheel pulls and see if it acts the same. Of note, I drove the turn bay from the freeway again at 50mph holding the wheel tight and felt a slight tug toward the crown/irregular pavement but no darting as before. I then turned around at the Wendy's and re ran the same road at the same speed lightly holding the wheel and voila! the front end darted to the left. Perhaps this is normal, if so you better make dang sure you keep a firm grip on the wheel. Still does not explain why the wheel continues to pull while FULLY STOPPED if I pump the brake pedal. I have NEVER seen this in over thirty cars owned and hundreds driven. Sadly, I am planning to return this great car to Mazda and likely buy again in about a year if all the bugs are worked out. Oil light came on and went off , Level still above the mark from day one. This clinched the decision for me. My last drive will be back to the dealer. Hope to rejoin you guys as an owner in in late 04.
Took the service guy for a ride , Normal behavior for the low profile tires! I don't like that answer. I drove a buddy's Z4 and my brothers Vette which did not demonstrate any steering shenanigins. My 8 only developed this after about 350 miles. I am going to test drive another 8 on the exact road where my wheel pulls and see if it acts the same. Of note, I drove the turn bay from the freeway again at 50mph holding the wheel tight and felt a slight tug toward the crown/irregular pavement but no darting as before. I then turned around at the Wendy's and re ran the same road at the same speed lightly holding the wheel and voila! the front end darted to the left. Perhaps this is normal, if so you better make dang sure you keep a firm grip on the wheel. Still does not explain why the wheel continues to pull while FULLY STOPPED if I pump the brake pedal. I have NEVER seen this in over thirty cars owned and hundreds driven. Sadly, I am planning to return this great car to Mazda and likely buy again in about a year if all the bugs are worked out. Oil light came on and went off , Level still above the mark from day one. This clinched the decision for me. My last drive will be back to the dealer. Hope to rejoin you guys as an owner in in late 04.
05-02-2006, 08:44 AM
#45
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NOTE: This is a resurrection of a 2.5-year-old thread. Quotes are old, old, OLD!
Originally Posted by Mark
After 450 miles, 19mpg, the car has developed a significant pull to the right or left when braking on bumpy or irregular pavement. The steering wheel turns a full quarter under these conditions. This occurs at low speed when coming to a traffic light or on the freeway when braking in a turn bay with uneven pavement (very scary which required quick correction). The sterring wheel turns right or left depending on the pavement and is very reproduceable. THIS NEVER OCCURS ON SMOOTH PAVEMENT.
Originally Posted by Hayseed
Happens to me. About a 1/4 turn of the steering wheel, in either direction. Only when I'm coming to a stop. Doesn't take a *very* bumpy road. While it was alarming, it didn't feel unsafe, since it happens only at very low speed.
Originally Posted by highspeed8
Count me in on this one too. I thought it odd that the steering would pull a little at <10 mph on slight road imperfections.
These pages don't show a resolution - did everyone suddenly decide to live with it?
05-02-2006, 10:39 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by Asmoran
The only times I've ever noticed it is when there's bad ruts in the road. I make sure to have a firm hold on the wheel at those intersections, and everything's good.
Originally Posted by stangmatt66
Again, as I stated, this is ONLY while braking to come to a complete stop. It usally occurs in the last 5-20 feet of the stop.
Originally Posted by thered1996
The car seems very sensitive to roads where depressions have been made by high traffic or overweight trucks. It's particularly noticable when nearing the end of a stop.
Could it be that the sensors in the electric power steering get a little too helpful under these conditions?
Could it be that the sensors in the electric power steering get a little too helpful under these conditions?
05-02-2006, 01:01 PM
#50
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Probably a bad brake caliper
The symptom you describe, of having the wheel whip suddenly one direction
when the car is nearly stopped really sounds like a brake caliper is seized or you
have a bubble in the brake fluid.
Not as noticable at high speed, when the motion of the car keeps the wheel
somewhat straight.
Jack up the front end, get both front wheels spinning (by hand works fine),
and have someone slowly depress the brake pedal.
See if one wheel stops before the other. If the system is working correctly,
both wheels should stop nearly simultaneously.
when the car is nearly stopped really sounds like a brake caliper is seized or you
have a bubble in the brake fluid.
Not as noticable at high speed, when the motion of the car keeps the wheel
somewhat straight.
Jack up the front end, get both front wheels spinning (by hand works fine),
and have someone slowly depress the brake pedal.
See if one wheel stops before the other. If the system is working correctly,
both wheels should stop nearly simultaneously.