rxturbo

Mark,

I hope you have success with the longer side seals, its an expensive way to do it but, We dont do it that way and no before you ask Iam still not telling anyone unless they get us to do it and they pay for it... Its just not fair on us to give away that much info for free so everyone can just copy it.. Sounds bad, but you would be the same if your job depended on R & D and then selling the product. But soon everyone will get wind of it later when customers start talking away

Thanks

MarkJ

Thats ok rxturbo, as I have a pretty good idea of what you have done, and I would prefer not to machine the rotors. The level of precision in machining from the factory on the Renesis is quite astounding, many times better than was available in the past. From the extremely tight fit of the corner seals , to the highly accurate location of the groove they are fitted to. I'm also sure the renesis corner seals will produce more power. I have also recently learned that the factory engine builders in Japan have access to longer side seals,
and am trying to acquire these as well as the manufacured ones.
Again, thanks for the info, you have helped even though you wouldn't reveal your secret.

rxturbo

Hello Mark,

We have the right tooling for the job now and its spot on, but it has involved cutting up rotors to see how deep they are and were we can take them to. If you can get longer side seals great, we had worked with Racing beat and Mazdaspeed as we have know them since the beginning of our company, now on its 21st year, to see if we could get longer seals but only getting down to about 8 thou side seal to corner seal gap, which is not good enough, leading to loss of HP and hard starting, but now with the mod we have it spot on....But as I have mentioned in the past threads is that you cant run RX8 apex seals with a bridge port as it falls in the bridge so with our mods we can run the larger bridge port and normal size seals and good clearances all round and thats how we have found our HP and improved mid range torque.. With your setup which we have done down here ie 13B PP running rx8 rotors is you will find a second power surge at around 10,000 to 10,500 rpm depending on your manifolds, I beleive with the right length manifold ie about 2 to 3" to the stacks and A long exhaust ie collecting around the diff area or just after you should get a peak HP at around 10,500 to 11,000 rpm so every clearance is going to be very important, It would be good to see how you go..

Please keep in touch with the longer seals, very interested in helping you purchasing them in some way..

Thanks Wayne

MarkJ

Wayne, out of curiosity, are you using hole saw housings or Mazda factory peripheral
housings? Factory housing horsepower is up around 360+. Manufactured ones not even close.
As to the longer side seals, funny how Mazdaspeed is aware of the need but has no time frame for a solution. As I have heard, the seals are longer when maufactured and are
cut down to one of four sizes. This rings true if you inspect the longest seal Mazda offers and one end has distinct hand filing marks. You would think, out of anyone, Mazda would have the best access to acquiring these!. (Maybe they do, and are not saying!)
The aerospace company I have approached is still trying to come up with a cost estimate. One curious thing though, is that they can only manufacture the seal cross section in a ring, which will have to be cut up to fit. Not a problem for any competent engine builder.
With that being said, I'm worried that if I commit to manufacture these then Mazda turns around and introduces their longer side seals, and I'm stuck with a bucket full.
Anyways, I will let you know what happens.

Thanks again, Mark

crispeed

I'm willing to pay right now!
You need to find a cost asp.
BTW. We're getting 320 to 350hp at the rear wheels with custom made PP housings.

wakeech

that's ******* sick. way to go!!

what port shapes have you experimented with?? (just a curious non-competitor )

MarkJ

Crisspeed, your getting 350 at the WHEELS! Is this all motor? If it is, at what rpm?
If you dont mind, send me a picture of these housings.

86rx7

I'm gonna have to call bs on this, I saw a renny stat gear at racing beat last weekend, the gears are definatly groved with multi window bearings and look to be factory screw locked.

MarkJ

So, whats up with this picture then?

MarkJ

Figured out whats going on, Mazda sent me stationary gears for an automatic! Had to swap out the hard drive on my computer, to switch
over to the Mazda Electronic Parts catalog, (which I borrowed from the dealership)
and indeed there are several different gears available. From the picture in the catalog, the gears look to be indentical to the twin turbo RX. Which is great , as
I can use them instead of the ultra expensive Comp. gears. Thanks for pointing this out. Will know more when they arrive.

MarkJ

Seems to be two alternates to stationary gear selection, an A marked one and
a B marked one. Might have to buy the engine criteria manual to figure this out.
Does anyone have a copy?, or know about the differences in these gears? Its
also funny how both engines in the same car can be so entirely different.

rxturbo

Hello Mark,

In Aussie the A normally means it superseeds an earier part number, so as an example if you got a part and it is the same as a part from a earier motor then they scub the earier part number and then super seed it to the new part number on the new part and then charge you at higher price then before even though it would of been cheaper before, and still the same part.. Its a bit confusing The B I would have to find out!!!!

If you want I will take some photos of the RX8 stuff we have here, as Ive got a motor nearly ready to build.. One of our special 13B B/port with rx8 internals for a street car, should be great..

As you might know we have auot and manual cranks and weights and different size rotor bearing on offer here from Mazda..

Till next Time keep in touch with the seals, Oh and if you wanted Ceramic Seals as well in either 2mm or 3mm twin spring 1 or 2 piece just give me a bell..

Thanks Wayne

MarkJ

Finally got a firm estimate on manufacturing longer side seals. Much to my dismay,
the manufacturer wants 60 - 80 USD$ per seal for a run of a 100! End result is over 10K CDN$, needless to say I won't be following that route! Anyone have any ideas?

shelleys_man_06

What needs to be done to make these longer side seals fit?

MarkJ

What do you mean, need to be done? These seals would be needed to eliminate the excessive clearance found with the factory side seals, when you use the
rotating assembly in a non side port exhaust engine.

shelleys_man_06

I meant something along the lines of doing some machine work.

MarkJ

I was trying to find a longer seal that fits without modifying the rotor at all.

rxturbo

Hello Mark,

If you are still keeping up with the forums here, then here is an update with the side seals,

I would replied sooner but Ive had to get a new computer,

We had managed to get the side seal clearance to a good 2~3 thou between the side seal and corner seal, but as you might of noticed the clearance changes when you push the side seal in on the rotor, this is beacuse they are tapered and when you push it down the top edge of the the seal gets tighter against the corner seal, sooner or later the corner seal is stuck down because the ends of the side seal get damaged, once this happens the rotor scuffs against the side plate damaging the corner seals even more. All of the tests done including making the gaps bigger to about 8 thou still has the same sort of effects, leading me to suspect the conventional bridge porting design with the reneisis rotors, As you might of noticed the side seals now sit up higher on the corner seals than earlier rotors have before. We are still going to R and D the idea but are going to go back to std style ports. All I know is that there would be no problem with running the rotors in a PP engine as there is no interferance problems


Thanks Wayne