serff

I just started looking at this stuff this weekend and the first thing I did was look to see if there are already projects out there trying to do this. There is a OBDII implementation in java up on sourceforge.net that I just downloaded the code about 30 minutes ago. So I don't know much about the code yet, but I think it only supports the older ISO standard. However, it seems they were just using the cable from multiplex-engineering to read data from the car. It doesn't seems like the project has been active for a while, so I haven't been able to talk to the origonal developers yet to find out what kinds of data rates they were getting.

Here is a link to their project:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jobdii/
http://jobdii.sourceforge.net/

As I've said, i'm really new to the whole OBDII stuff, but I would really like to get involved. I'm just not sure where to start yet. I wanted to look at all this code first to see if there are ways to enhance it. If anyone would have the time to point me to info about the kinds of things that you can get from the OBD interface that would be great. Also, I don't really understand why the cable that multipllex is selling wouldn't work for the data rates we need to do the real time stuff.

If anyone thinks that the project above may be useable, let me know. I'm very intrested in helping with it.

Thanks!

OverLOAD

Basically, CAN is a very simple communication protocol. ISO15765 makes a lot of sence, and there's enough information around to figure out how to send the data to get what you want. It's actually very easy to get the information that's available in the OBD spec codes..

Now the real gravy in the RX-8 ECU, is the Mazda specific vendor data. If you knew the codes to retrive data like the TPMS sensor module values, being able to set them too, and about 10x as much capability as the OSB spec.. You can do a lot with just the J1699 test codes, but to really have an impressive setup, and get control of the system, rather than just watch it, you need the Mazda specific codes. some shops out there may actually have that info, but it probably isn't free.

OverLOAD

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Multiplex sells a CAN interface. It works for me on my RX-8 and also on my good wifes Mazda 6.

The J1699 sourceforge project I looked at also required the interface to conform to J2354 specs, which is basically a software device driver layer. Multiplex interfaces do not come with any driver software, you need to write your own.

Cheers,
Hymee.

OverLOAD

The j1699.c source code still does show you what the raw data your need to tx/rx is. IT may require a J2534 compatabile device, but that's just for the interface communication standards, the raw OBD data is just encapsulated behind a simple header.

I've used very nice and expensive interfaces with success on the RX-8, including the Saint, and the CarDaq, but very pricy, but effective. If you want to use a simpler device, the same data still needs to be sent.

What data have you managed to be able to get?


OverLOAD

neit_jnf

Have you seen this?

www.autoenginuity.com

What do you think about it? I'm thinking about getting the Palm version...

OverLOAD

It's been mentioned by others before. Last I heard from them was they they were looking into adding support for the RX-8, I don't know if they've done so yet. Call them and find out.

OverLOAD

Japan8

bump

how's the progress??

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I checked with them and their product has a CAN expansion pack now to make the scan tool look at the majority of the 79 OBDII supported sensors, but nothing beyond that. In comparision the Ford expansion pack gives you close to 200 sensors and the GM pack gives 600 sensors.

Were you planning on only reading the OBDII sensors or going beyond that?

OverLOAD

The base sensors are pretty comprehensive, but still, there's no oil pressure. You get Oil Temp & Coolant Temp, MAF, etc etc, but you're still missing a bunch.

I personally not interested in trying to find out what the custom Mazda codes are. It's possible that they're the same as Fords, but until someone else tries, I'm pretty much settled on using the OBDII codes, besides, once you've done the legwork to make the base codes work, it's a cakewalk to get the vendor specific codes to work, once you know what they are....

If someone were able to confirm/deny the Form/Mazda codes being the same, that would be a big step in the right direction. This project is still pretty much on hold for me at the moment, as I've got too much else happening at the moment.

Regards,

OverLOAD

JohnO

I just got told by Auterra (http://www.auterraweb.com) that their Palm scan tool doesn't support the RX8 either. And they've got a picture of the 8 ON THEIR BOX!

Jeez! They have agreed to give me back my money, but no mention of this limitation on their web site. I tried to find the thread where they were mentioned to post to, but I couldn't get any search results using Auterra.

I've asked the guy to let me know when they come out with a version that works...

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Sorry,

I haven't responded to this very valuable thread for such a long time.

I can get all the RX-8 supported PIDS. To my disgust, I found J1979 doesn't even mention a knock sensor. That is a real must IMHO for serious tuning.

I am trying to find out the "manufacturer specific" PIDs that are "reserved" by J1979. Like what has been mentioned above for GM and Ford. I'm sure it would be in there somewhere. Can anyone help finding out what the RX-8 specific PIDS are?

Here is my contribution. These are the stock J1979 ones that the RX-8 supports. This was found out by sending the message to "request all supported PIDS":


3754ms TX: ---> A6 08 08 02 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 13
3914ms RX: <--- 40 88 06 41 00 BE 1F E8 13 00 00 00 00 A7

41 = Service 01
00 = PIDs 01-20
BE = 10111110 = 01 xx 03 04 05 06 07 xx
1F = 00011111 = xx xx xx 0C 0D 0E 0F 10
E8 = 11101000 = 11 12 13 xx 15 xx xx xx
13 = 00010011 = xx xx xx 1C xx xx 1F 20

01 = Monitor Status since DTC's cleared
03 = Fuel System status (open/closed loop etc.)
04 = Calculated LOAD value
05 = Coolant Temp
06 = STFT Banks 1 & 3
07 = LTFT Banks 1 & 3
0C = RPM
0D = Vehicle Speed
0E = #1 Cyl advance
0F = Intake Air Temp
10 = MAF - Air flow rate
11 = TPS - absolute
12 = Commanded 2ndry air status
13 = O2 sensor location
15 = Bank 1 Sensor 2 O2, Volts and STFT
1C = OBDII requirements met
1F = Time since engine start (s)
20 = Check for PIDs 21-40

3145ms TX: ---> A6 08 08 02 01 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 33
3648ms RX: <--- 40 88 06 41 20 80 07 B0 11 00 00 00 00 37

20 = PIDs 21-40

80 = 10000000 = 21 xx xx xx xx xx xx xx
07 = 00000111 = xx xx xx xx xx 2E 2F 30
B0 = 10110000 = 31 xx 33 34 xx xx xx xx
11 = 00010001 = xx xx xx 3C xx xx xx 40

21 = Distance travelled while MIL activated
2E = Commanded Evaporative Purge
2F = Fuel Level Input
30 = Number of warm-ups since diagnostic codes cleared
31 = Distance since diagnostic codes cleared
33 = Barometric pressure
34 = Bank 1 - Sensor 1 Wide-range O2 Lambda / current.
3C = Catalyst Temperature
40 = Check for PIDs 41 - 60


3656ms TX: ---> A6 08 08 02 01 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 53
4156ms RX: <--- 40 88 06 41 40 7A D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 59

40 = PIDs 41 - 60

7A = 01111010 = xx 42 43 44 45 xx 47 xx
D0 = 11010000 = 49 4A xx 4C xx xx xx xx
00 = 00000000 = xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx
00 = 00000000 = xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx

42 = Control Module Voltage
43 = Absolute Load Value
44 = Commanded Equivalence Ratio
45 = Relative Throttle Position
47 = Absolute Throttle Position B
49 = Accelerator Pedal Position D
4A = Accelerator Pedal Position E
4C = Commanded Throttle Acutator Control

Hope this helps!

This is very usefull. I was able to determine what the timing map (for ignition advance) at various RPMS at WOT, Full load.

But then again, we are just dumb Aussies, right?

Cheers,
Hymee.

2rotors

Is this project still in active?

I could contribute some programming if it has lapsed from a lack of time by its originators.

Could anyone suggest any vendors who sell hardware interfaces that are known to work with the RX-8's CAN?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I am still working on this when time permits...

Cheers,
Hymee.

VividRacing.com

The AutoEngineuity Scan tool does support Palm which makes the whole process of using the tool alot easier since there are no wires to get in the way of the driver.

Atacdad

Could you detail the parts you are using from Mulitplex?

TIA

AT

wolfbeast

OverLOAD,

are you planning on producing these units and software for sale when you complete development? If so, approximatly how much would the unit and software cost?

Thanks
-n

OverLOAD

Possibly, The proto device is essentially finished and working. It's just a simple serial port to CAN bus interface. The interface itself doesn't have any high-tech features, but I've written a huge PC interface that can query most of the supported PIDS. That was back in october/november timeframe.

It's currently on hold pending the finalization of the AuxMod project. Hopefully we will be starting it up again in the next month or two.

As to pricing, and even if we will be selling it, I can't say here, due to the forum rules. Until we become an official RX-8club.com Sponsor, that is.

Regards,

OverLOAD

2rotors

Thanks for the update, Overload.

I am in the Detroit area, and could help with the programming if this isn't intended to be a commercial product (or perhaps a customer when it becomes one).

Feel free to contact me.

Rx-Appreci-8

Check out the CANScan OBD-II Scan Tool at www.ghg.net/dharrison. It supports Windows and Palm. I tested with the Palm version on my RX-8 this week and it works well.

OverLOAD

That looks nice. Can you post some pics? I might have to get one. It's a good price.

Rx-Appreci-8

I'll try to get some pix in the next couple of days. It works well on my Rx-8. The real time MPG display is helping me with my shifting and I'm excited to see what my gas mileage comes to.

If you have a palm, the web site has a downloadable Palm demo that generates faux data so you can get a feel for how it works without hooking to the OBD CANScan HW or vehicle.

OverLOAD

which model did you get?

SpacerX

That looks pretty cool, and the price is extremely reasonable. I'd anticipate there'll be a flood of these SW solutions coming out over the next year or so.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

that looks great! Can you check some things for me...

- How many sensors is it capable of reading for the 8?
- Is it capable of logging data and dumping it into something like Excel?

- It says its possible to write your own applications, did you use it at all yet? I'd be really interested in writing a dyno program and maybe something that would tell you when to shift for best gas milage...

Rx-Appreci-8

Overload -
I've owned the "OBDScan and Palm" combination for a couple of years. It works on standard (non Can Bus) post-96 OBD II vehicles.

The new "CANScan" hardware that I recently acquired looks just like the original OBDScan hardware and uses the same cables / Palm software that I already had, but CANScan works with the RX-8 and other CAN bus based OBD II vehicles. Windows software comes with the OBDScan and CANScan and the Palm software is a slight additional charge.

Prober -
The Palm software that I use has always been able to display ALL the PIDs defined in the OBD II ISO specification. The parameters displayed vary depending on what the vehicle ECU supports. In addition to normal "PID" values, if your check engine light (CEL/MIL) comes on, you can view stored trouble codes as well as freeze frame data (PID values present when CEL is asserted). If there are pending trouble codes present before the vehicle turns on the CEL/MIL they can be displayed too.

The list of standard parameters displayed with the CANScan HW connected to my RX-8 and Palm was approximately double what I'm used to seeing on typical OBD vehicles, so kudos to Mazda for expanding the supported PID list.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see a list of supported real time PIDs in the RX-8 repair manual, however there is an EXTENSIVE list of trouble codes supported by the RX-8 in the repair manual including non-ISO vehicle specific trouble codes in the P1XXX, CXXXX, BXXXX and UXXXX ranges.

To answer your specific question, I went out to hook up to my car and the Palm's battery was dead and my charger is at work. I'll charge it up Monday and get you an answer. If memory serves I'm thinking ~37 PID parameters displayed but I don't want to misrepresent the product. I did see "voltage", "time with MIL light on", and a few others that I've never seen before on other vehicles

To answer your other question - The Palm software supports data logging as a user selective option. Data is recorded to a Palm database (in Palm RAM) and the next time you hot sync a file gets created on your PC containg the data as tab and comma delimited ASCII text strings.

Regarding writing your own software, it's best to email dharrison directly about that. If you figure out a way to take the CANScan output and display it on my NAV screen I'd buy that from you -- if I don't beat you to it ;=)