r0tor

iTrader: (1)

interestingly enough, it looks to me like the WBO2 sensor bung on the RE Anemiya header is actually in the rear rotor exhaust... not sure if that was for this reason or if its was just a packaging deal

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

those are some damn sexy headers up there........

Anyways, I talked to MM about this more. He said what Mazda should have done is sprial the coolant passages around the housing. This is because in a rotary only one side is hot while the other two "areas" are realatively cool compartively. So if they sprialed the coolant passage after it went through the combustion area to either the intake or exhaust areas, then fresh colder coolant would be circulated to the rear rotor combustion area housing. This is of course wouldn't work for one of us to modify, but it's what Mazda should have done.

And the more I think about it, making a seperate coolant circut for the rear housing would be nearly impossible. Someone may be able to pull it off, but it won't be me.

It's an interesting delima we face now. Hopefully when Mazda comes out with a new Wankel they will sprial the coolant passages.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure what real effect that would have. The coolant isn't going to lose an appreciable amount of heat until it exits the motor and reaches the radiator. It will pass some to the outer housing of the motor but not a large amount. Re-routing the coolant in the motor will only mean for a longer duration the hot coolant is in the block before "fresh" is brought in to replace it. And the big issue that was being looked at was that the rear rotor is recieving coolant that is already heat soaked. Therefore its ability to efficiently cool the rear rotor is severly compromised.

I would love to see water temps before entering the block compared to before and entering the rear housing and then upon exit of the block. i have a guess as to where the large spike in temperature is.

L8APEX

I get the rear rotor misfire code at every track event I go to. I can get it to happen at the same place on track, every time. I have tried a lot of things to get rid of the problem, with no luck. I only get the CEL on the track, and have not been able to make it happen on the street, even if I try to simulate conditions.

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

well you're sending the hottest coolant (combustion area passage way) to the coolest area of the motor, and the coolest coolant to the hottest area of the motor. That has to make a difference- I can't see why it wouldn't. Because it is right now, the same coolant is used to cool both combustion areas of both housings, so the coolant is already heak soaked prior to getting the #2 housing. By sprialing the passage ways, the hot coolant can dissapait some heat in the other areas of the engine and the colder coolant can absorb more in the combustion area.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

You are just not going to lose much heat this way. Sure, I will give that the non combustion areas of the housing are not going to be as hot as the combustion area but they are still going to be hotter than the ~200* water temps. They are what make the water temps as hot as they are. I just cant see the water temperature spiking to - lets say for arguments sake - 240 when it passes the combustion area then - again for arguments sake - decreasing to 200 when passing the non combustion area. I can see the concept here but I just don't see it doing more than a couple degrees of good in terms of water temps to the rear rotor - if that.

You have to remember even after compression and combustion the hot exhaust gasses are swept further around the motor to the exhaust port. Its not like they are immediately moving out of the motor. So now you have a lot more area of the motor that is being heated to combustion chamber temps than you are accounting for. From looking at Charles Hill's plates I would estimate maybe only 1/3 of the housing is going to be appreciably cooler than that of the "combustion area".

To get the coolant in the rear rotor to be much cooler you somehow need to deliver fresh coolant. I have an idea in my head that I would like to try out when I get some free capitol.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

^^ You are missing the point.
Its not about lowering the temperature of the coolant, its about NOT passing 240°F coolant over the combustion area.
If the coolant passage going by the #2 combustion area just came from the intake area of rotor #1, that coolant will be significantly cooler than what goes by there in the current configuration.

eviltwinkie

LEGOS!!!

Each housing has its own independant cooling, fuel, oil, intake, exhaust IN/OUT ports...

They then snap together via eccentric shaft!!

Brilliant!!

I AM an eccentric shaft!!!

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

haha that's a good idea. I would worry about the structural integrity of the whole unit since the engine needs to function as a whole- also about the connection of the E-shaft.

But that is a cool thought- a 26B would be easy to make.

eviltwinkie

A single common water pump...just split off for more units...and increase size to compensate for them...

Same for oil...

Its fuel injected anyways...

spline in the front...receiver in the back...e-shaft secks

dmorales

I have a question...since I think that may be the flashing CEL i had sunday...Would a misfire be followed by smoke from the exhaust? I had a friend behind me say there was quite a bit of smoke that came out from the exhaust.

and

What will mazda say if I bring it in?
________
RedMiledy

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Well, since I suspect that the #2 rotor is running hot and lean, I'd think that it would be less carboned.
So, I dunno.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Perhaps! I didn't think of that.
I wish I had software that is sophisticated enough to log the individual injectors, rather than the groups as a single number.

I guess, when the AccessPort comes around, we will have answers to this sort of stuff.

That said, I don't think its likely that they do individual chamber control since they don't have any way of sensing the temp and A/F differential from #1 to #2 and Mazda's PCMs don't like controlling things that finely without feedback.

dmorales

I stopped by service dept. at lunch, and he gave me the, I don't know that's hard to diagnose, must just be a misfire, it's nomral.

I am brining it in for some ther little problem next week, and will have them look into it more, but if I get anything useful out of this I will let yall know.
________
TylerHart

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The Renesis is no different than any of the preceding rotary motors in this respect and nothing was done to address this issue with any of the 13b motors.
Anyway, this would mean running fairly rich in high-temp situations, which we know it doesn't (or running the front slightly lean, which I would hope it wouldn't).

I wouldn't count on it.
Obviously, RB did NOT succeed in breaking the PCM to any great depth or their re-flash would be considerably more capable.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

must be other forces at work, I don't have this problem ...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Perhaps, or lack of particular forces in one scenario or another.

Its like the clicking clutch thing. I can get just about every RX-8 and Miata out there to click, even if their driver/owner cannot.

eviltwinkie

Just like I can get every chick out there off, even if thier driver/owner cannot.

I kid, I kid....

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Ugh...

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two rotors

A couple of points:
1.Not all 13B engines fail rear rotor,but based on a small personal sample it is 2 rear rotor to 1 front.
2 the oil circuit feeds the rear rotor first and oil removes about 30% of the the total waste heat,this mitigates to some extent the water circuit set up.

eviltwinkie

Thats some nice filler you got there...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I noted that in my original post.
However, my contention is that with the relatively high flow rate of coolant compared to oil and its elevated relative ability to convey thermal information, the effect of the coolant movement is not negated by the oil.
Certainly, a quick look at the housings with an IR thermometer shows that something is going on.

tajabaho1

from my personal experience, my first 2 engine replacements were all 2nd rotor misfires, symptoms include violent shake and clank sound at 45-55rpm
death on stoplight, etc etc

claus

... just investigating on the misfire sound: did you hear that screaming sound like a fan belt slipping? i hear that misfiring (knock on wood) on the wankel is different than misfiring on piston motors

dillsrotary

^tell you what, I'm glad you bumped this thread, as we have a years worth of knowledge now. Any updates, or perhaps a BHR solution?